How long to install shower pump? Reality check required, please.

[Ric2013]

Hi. I'm currently estimating on installing a new shower pump to feed an existing bath/shower diverter.

Hot side: fit flange and spherical valve and Y strainer to old cylinder, reduce to 15 mm and to pump flexi and reconnect existing hot distributing pipe.
Repair shelf in AC and fit twin impeller pump.
New spur from existing circuit in A/C to new FCU for pump.
Cold side: drain CWSC, clean out, overhaul FOV, replace sagging chipboard with ply or T & G, new tank connector outlet, spherical valve, pipe in 22 around loft hatch and through ceiling into A/C, spherical valve, line strainer, reduce to 15, and to pump flexi.
Outlets: 15mm up through ceiling of AC, around loft hatch, auto air vents at highest point, and drop through ceiling down bathroom wall (visible) and under bath. Remove old pump from under bath, connect pumped 15mm to existing runs to bath tap/shower diverter, and cut out dead leg.

Insulate all new pipework except visible pipe in bathroom. All copper.

Cylinder stat is working, but out of calibration, so also need to bring it up to temperature slowly and check the outlet until it is actually 60 and not 75! And then dab of glue to stop people fiddling, methinks.

There seems to be a fair amount of pratting about with cleaning/servicing, carpentry, and electrics. Have to drop via loft as customer doesn't want floor lifting. Loft access is good, but CWSC is on the other side of the hatch from the AC and the F&E is directly above the AC, so this makes it a bit more fiddly.

Am I mad to think I'd be lucky to get this done in 2 days @ 8hours a day? I am thinking it's 2 days and a few hours to finish off on day 3...

 

[Ric2013]

Charging too little is undermining the industry.

You meet people who tell you they had whatever work (not necessarily plumbing) carried out and were charged £50 and you think it's a good price but... was he [the workman] paying any tax?

 

[Timmy D]

If @Timmy D takes two days at £300 / day for a job and @Ric2013 takes three days at £200 / day for the same job the cost to the customer is the same and I don't see that either of them is 'undermining the industry'.

@Timmy D's story about a job where he ended up doing a some carpentry and tiling is an interesting example of how hour/day rates don't tell the whole story. In terms of hourly rates it makes no sense to have a Gas Safe plumber tiling. On the other hand, he made a decision that was optimal for the point of view of the whole job; tiling was on the critical path so it was cheaper overall to have him do it than to stand down while a tiler was brought in.

Here’s another one, customer had a corrugated plastic lean to roof covering their side alley. I needed to get on top to change the boiler flue.

I made customer aware that it’s highly likely some of it will crack.

She said that she wanted to change the roof anyway, so no problem.

I said that I could change it if she wanted but she would be paying gas engineer rates and that a builder would do it for half my rates.

She didn’t even hesitate, and told me to go ahead because she trusted the quality of my work.

Ended up fabricating a custom welded frame on site (6m x 1m) with a lead box gutter and 6 x 1m2 double glazed glass panels as the roof. 1 of them I put on hinges and hydraulic rams for future flue access and glass cleaning.

Ended up costing more than a builder, but customer expectations were set and she got exactly what she wanted.

 

[Ric2013]

Ended up fabricating a custom welded frame on site (6m x 1m) with a lead box gutter and 6 x 1m2 double glazed glass panels as the roof. 1 of them I put on hinges and hydraulic rams for future flue access and glass cleaning.

Ended up costing more than a builder, but customer expectations were set and she got exactly what she wanted.

Sounds like you have a very wide skill base and the tools for it! Nice.

 

[Timmy D]

Sounds like you have a very wide skill base and the tools for it! Nice.

I try to keep learning, stops boredom, breaks up the work.

Did a zinc roof a year ago, that was interesting and enjoyable.

Honestly, 25% of my work is gas. Can’t remember the last time I did any catering.

Should have a 200-300kw plant room coming up. Prob 2 inch gas, maybe bigger. Should be fun.


Maybe you should get your oil ticket. Fun to work on and prob a bit around your area as you’re a bit further out.

 

[Ric2013]

Maybe you should get your oil ticket. Fun to work on and prob a bit around your area as you’re a bit further out.

Definitely. Either renewables, or oil, or heat-pumps. I do need an angle. And I definitely need to do my G3 (even if I only used it for small electric water heaters).

 

[SimonG]

Definitely. Either renewables, or oil, or heat-pumps. I do need an angle. And I definitely need to do my G3 (even if I only used it for small electric water heaters).

I don't know what the situation is with renewables and heat pumps, I always thought you had to be mcs registered. A right pile of red tape and not directed to sole traders or smaller companies.

Oil, a doddle especially if you can get some hands on time with somebody local. You can look at OFTEC but in essence not required.
I used to be registered but it's all kerching with them and not needed for service and repair. Installation can be done through building control, which is the way I go now.

 

[Timmy D]

I don't know what the situation is with renewables and heat pumps, I always thought you had to be mcs registered. A right pile of red tape and not directed to sole traders or smaller companies.

Oil, a doddle especially if you can get some hands on time with somebody local. You can look at OFTEC but in essence not required.
I used to be registered but it's all kerching with them and not needed for service and repair. Installation can be done through building control, which is the way I go now.

Agree.

I’ve only got a couple of oil sites. One is 2 x 350kw boilers installed in 1972....they are fun.

I’m pretty certain MCS is just so your customer can get the government grants, not otherwise needed.

I’ve also got my f-gas but don’t see how heat pumps can currently work in the centre of London....

 

[Ric2013]

I’ve also got my f-gas but don’t see how heat pumps can currently work in the centre of London....

Old, uninsulated buildings and a lack of space to mount air source units, I take it you mean?

 

[Ric2013]

I used to be registered but it's all kerching with them and not needed for service and repair. Installation can be done through building control, which is the way I go now.

I think a lot of it is kerching. I don't have a great deal of confidence that these schemes are a guarantee of quality.

I recently pulled out of a house purchase. Semi-basement conversion with serious damp issues and when I got hold of the design spec for the conversion, I found that the design... well, even I could see the proposal for making the room waterproof wasn't going to work (and my surveyor had a similar opinion). Yet the design had been approved and the works signed off by none other than the local council's Building Control department. Had the work been sound and the basement dry I would have been less concerned even if there were no certification.

 

[Timmy D]

Old, uninsulated buildings and a lack of space to mount air source units, I take it you mean?

Yup and undersized flow/returns/heat emitters for a low temp system.