What to charge customers...

[Mastermixlee]

Tightness test on CP12
Checking all appliances in property - not just boiler

Yep know that but meant what would you do on the checks on the boiler itself for a cp12 Vs the checks you'd do on a boiler?

E.g. would you adjust the ratios if need be on a cp12 without a service added onto cost? Or would you advise that a service is required and quote/charge for adjustments etc.

 

[mfgs]

A landlords check is similar to a MOT for a car just an overall check of the safety of the gas installation and appliances. You fill out the boxes with your findings and that’s it. Any additional work it chargeable. When your car goes in for a MOT they don’t do little fixes included in the price. They give you the paperwork stating what needs to be done.

 

[Mastermixlee]

A landlords check is similar to a MOT for a car just an overall check of the safety of the gas installation and appliances. You fill out the boxes with your findings and that’s it. Any additional work it chargeable. When your car goes in for a MOT they don’t do little fixes included in the price. They give you the paperwork stating what needs to be done.

Thought that's what people would be thinking along the lines of.

I've just never done a cp12 without doing a full service on every appliance.

Eg. Always done full strip and clean of gas fires and bbus etc on every cp12 I've done for near 15 years.

Just when people posted they offer standalone cp12 it got me thinking lol.

 

[Jerry]

I always treated the CP12 as a 'snapshot' of the state of the installation at that exact moment in time. It will be used only for insurance purposes if something bad happens.

The MOT analogy is also good. You don't expect the test centre to pop the hood and fiddle with the engine, if the vehicle fails an emissions test? Nope. It gets sent away to have the problem fixed (or scrapped) and then you pay to have the MOT done again!

 

[Harvest Fields]

I’m quite sure that it isn’t a legal requirement to complete a tightness on a CP12.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Cheers for the like @Riley this comment always stirs up a good conversation.

 

[Riley]

I’m sure it’s not obligatory but why wouldn’t you

 

[Harvest Fields]

I’m sure it’s not obligatory but why wouldn’t you

That’s not the point mate😀😉😉

 

[Millsy 82]

I’m quite sure that it isn’t a legal requirement to complete a tightness on a CP12.

You are correct. Although it asks for it on the form so just always do it.

 

[Jerry]

I’m quite sure that it isn’t a legal requirement to complete a tightness on a CP12.

Really? I don't understand how it cannot be the most important requirement.

You are undertaking a series of tests to show that the whole gas system is safe etc. Surely the most fundamental test is to check that the gas is not leaking??? That has to be more important than CO emissions and expiry dates on smoke alarms etc

 

[Mastermixlee]

Interesting.
Sure it'd cause a right fuss if you weren't to so one and something did go wrong due to a gas leak though.

Really? I don't understand how it cannot be the most important requirement.

You are undertaking a series of tests to show that the whole gas system is safe etc. Surely the most fundamental test is to check that the gas is not leaking??? That has to be more important than CO emissions and expiry dates on smoke alarms etc

Sounds odd to me also, but for the sake of a 2 minute test (plus 15 minutes gaining access to the sodding meters sometimes lol) I'd always do one.

I'd if you did a cp12 and didn't do a tightness test and something did to wrong you'd be on the firing line regardless of law.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Interesting.
Sure it'd cause a right fuss if you weren't to so one and something did go wrong due to a gas leak though.


Sounds odd to me also, but for the sake of a 2 minute test (plus 15 minutes gaining access to the sodding meters sometimes lol) I'd always do one.

I'd if you did a cp12 and didn't do a tightness test and something did to wrong you'd be on the firing line regardless of law.

Surely you mean a total of 4 minutes 😉😉 and 15 getting access to it.

 

[Harvest Fields]

How can they fire you for something that isn’t a legal requirement? Unless it is company policy.

 

[Jerry]

Hmmmm.

I use the Sprint Mobile App for my FGA and issuing CP12.

There are 3 options on the Tightness Test - PASS - FAIL - NA

If I select NA, then the cert passes. If I select FAIl, then it fails.

So, Sprint thinks the tightness test is not mandatory. But failing it will cause the cert to fail.


Can someone less lazy than me call GS and settle this?
J

 

[Mastermixlee]

How can they fire you for something that isn’t a legal requirement? Unless it is company policy.

I didn't mean firing as in from your job. More from a having to defend your actions (or lack of) for not performing a tightness test.

Wouldn't take the risk of not doing one personally. I know someone who used to do all the investigations following any gas explosions, co poisoning cases etc. And not having performed a tightness test on a cp12 I'm sure would stick out on the reports and earn a thorough questioning if you were the last one to work at the property.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Hmmmm.

I use the Sprint Mobile App for my FGA and issuing CP12.

There are 3 options on the Tightness Test - PASS - FAIL - NA

If I select NA, then the cert passes. If I select FAIl, then it fails.

So, Sprint thinks the tightness test is not mandatory. But failing it will cause the cert to fail.


Can someone less lazy than me call GS and settle this?
J

Settle what?

 

[Mastermixlee]

Surely you mean a total of 4 minutes 😉😉 and 15 getting access to it.

And yes of course lol but only 2 minutes is actually a tightness test (the other 2 are just preparing and ensuring accuracy 😛)

 

[Jerry]

Settle what?

If tightness tests are optional on CP12's

 

[Harvest Fields]

If tightness tests are optional on CP12's

Sure it was in a gas engineer magazine.

 

[Ben-gee]

Ask yourself why you are doing the test.

If it’s to make yourself money, don’t bother with the tightness test if it’s not a legal requirement. (Legitimate view - I’m not judging)

If you are also trying to do your bit to help people/keep them safe , do the test.

Whatever you do, unfortunately some people will die due to gas related domestic incidents as things can/will go wrong.

 

[Harvest Fields]

If tightness tests are optional on CP12's

Bottom bullet point. Recommendation only.

You’re welcome 😉😉

 

[Mastermixlee]

Bottom bullet point. Recommendation only.

You’re welcome 😉😉

View attachment 39263

Thanks for that.
So to further delve in the the rabbit hole that is this conversation.
To perform flue flow (to and check flue/chimney is clear) on a gas fire you'd be removing it (and obviously checking catchment space dimensions etc).
If you found the catchment space to be full of muck but the job you had attended was only a cp12 and not charged for service on the fire.... Would you vacuum it up or would you advise and charge for a service.

Let the divisive opinions commence! 😛

 

[Harvest Fields]

Thanks for that.
So to further delve in the the rabbit hole that is this conversation.
To perform flue flow (to and check flue/chimney is clear) on a gas fire you'd be removing it (and obviously checking catchment space dimensions etc).
If you found the catchment space to be full of muck but the job you had attended was only a cp12 and not charged for service on the fire.. Would you vacuum it up or would you advise and charge for a service.

Let the divisive opinions commence! 😛

2 things here. You would call the landlord and get permission to service whilst on site and get paid extra for the service. Also, if you have removed the fire you need to do a tightness test as you have broken a gas connection.

 

[Jerry]

I agree with Harvest Fields.

Get permission to fix the problem or....1) Cap off the gas fire or 2) Fail the CP12 and cap off the house.....hmmm

 

[Mastermixlee]

I agree with Harvest Fields.

Get permission to fix the problem or....1) Cap off the gas fire or 2) Fail the CP12 and cap off the house...hmmm

Talking of which.
If you cap a gas fire due to spillage etc then that appliance has failed. But if capped then risk is removed. So cp12 still a pass (overall)a fire is technically decommissioned? *Insert thinking face emoji here....as they don't have it on the forum 🙁 *

 

[Harvest Fields]

Talking of which.
If you cap a gas fire due to spillage etc then that appliance has failed. But if capped then risk is removed. So cp12 still a pass (overall)a fire is technically decommissioned? *Insert thinking face emoji here....as they don't have it on the forum 🙁 *

If ID then cap. If the rest of the CP12 is fine, then awesome.

 

[Deleted member 32524]

Arrange service before you go with additional cost agreed. If not then just go and do cp12 report. Anything AR it is off and stickers or I'D capped and stickerd. Leaving WA Notice on both.

 

[Harvest Fields]

I agree with Harvest Fields.

Get permission to fix the problem or....1) Cap off the gas fire or 2) Fail the CP12 and cap off the house...hmmm

1) cannot cap unless ID, even if full of s**t

 

[Mastermixlee]

I do love this forum. Can have a much better discussion of regs etc here than with some of the colleagues I've had over the years who seem to chat rubbish.

Good little community here 🙂

Only downside is my wife thinks I'm a loser for being on work related websites all the time 😳

 

[Millsy 82]

Thanks for that.
So to further delve in the the rabbit hole that is this conversation.
To perform flue flow (to and check flue/chimney is clear) on a gas fire you'd be removing it (and obviously checking catchment space dimensions etc).
If you found the catchment space to be full of muck but the job you had attended was only a cp12 and not charged for service on the fire.. Would you vacuum it up or would you advise and charge for a service.

Let the divisive opinions commence! 😛

Write it on your cp12 needs a service if its bad enough AR or ID it then move one you can ask if they want it done there and then if you choose but most companies I've worked for was just note it down unless it's the main heating appliance like a boiler then seek permission straight away.

 

[Jerry]

Talking of which.
If you cap a gas fire due to spillage etc then that appliance has failed. But if capped then risk is removed. So cp12 still a pass (overall)a fire is technically decommissioned? *Insert thinking face emoji here....as they don't have it on the forum 🙁 *

I usually don't charge for capping off a gas fire...but then again, most landlords are happy to have their cp12's and they have known for a while the fire is problematic.

 

[Welder]

I do love this forum. Can have a much better discussion of regs etc here than with some of the colleagues I've had over the years who seem to chat rubbish.

Good little community here 🙂

Only downside is my wife thinks I'm a loser for being on work related websites all the time 😳

AT least yours says you have a 'reason' to be a loser 🙁😀

 

[Deleted member 96286]

Can I offer this basic wee formula that works well for many jobs, but obviously not all jobs. It will get newbies started and at least help others get a rough idea of costing and does not include VAT or extras.

It works as follows:
Material cost plus markup (either 20% or 30%)
plus
Daily labour charge for duration of job (or hourly if on different jobs over a day).

So if your bathroom materials are £1500 plus 30% markup = £1950
Daily rate is £200 and for 5 working days = £1000
Total cost for job = £2950

 

[Old Account]

Find out their budget before you waste your time putting quotes together. Everyone has a price in their head of what they think it should cost, do not leave on a first visit without finding out their budget or you have already conditioned them to a price that they have agreed sounds about right, a little higher than you think it will cost. Arrange another visit to present your price at less than they were expecting and try to close the business on that visit and have a date booked in the diary before you leave house.

How can you find out their price before you even give them the price though? I’m tired of spending time to quote jobs and later on people think you will do the jobs for peanuts. The problem is that I’ve got to many people in my area they are not gas safe registered and install boilers or they are but target people who are willing to pay 2/300 pounds. All they do is rip the boiler of the wall smash the new on without any filters or proper controllers and of course no flush. 1/2 day work without even registering the boiler. I always ask them what’s roughly he ballpark figure but usually they say they don’t know. So I am a little screwed though.

 

[Millsy 82]

How can you find out their price before you even give them the price though? I’m tired of spending time to quote jobs and later on people think you will do the jobs for peanuts. The problem is that I’ve got to many people in my area they are not gas safe registered and install boilers or they are but target people who are willing to pay 2/300 pounds. All they do is rip the boiler of the wall smash the new on without any filters or proper controllers and of course no flush. 1/2 day work without even registering the boiler. I always ask them what’s roughly he ballpark figure but usually they say they don’t know. So I am a little screwed though.

I think the younger generation have an idea of how much they want to spend as they do a quick search on the internet and there are several places that say how much they should be paying.

I dont think it's a bad idea to ask as it may whittle down the jokers who want someone to supply and fit a boiler for £1000. On the other hand some customers think you are just seeing how much they are willing to pay so even if it was cheaper you would charge them the higher amount.