Whats next ?

[Last Plumber]

I agree totally with you, was just pointing out what 22mm could carry at those numbers, I hadn't realised at the time it was a standard efficiency boiler, which makes 22mm capable of less. Ultimately any size pipe can carry any amount of power, its just at what flow rate and DT.
Like you say, the boiler is undersized and the pipework is wrong. The installer really should have known this stuff, realistically one should rip out and start again.

My sentiments entirely!

It is unfortunately something that happens too often isn't it? I just can't work out why it does.

 

[SJB060685]

My sentiments entirely!

It is unfortunately something that happens too often isn't it? I just can't work out why it does.

Unfortunately you are right. There's too many people out there who take on work like this without the neccessary training and knowledge and its both dangerous to the end user and the industry.
Unfortunately for the OP the resolution to this problem is not an easy or cheap one.

 

[Last Plumber]

Unfortunately you are right. There's too many people out there who take on work like this without the neccessary training and knowledge and its both dangerous to the end user and the industry.
Unfortunately for the OP the resolution to this problem is not an easy or cheap one.

Yes and the temptation is to continue down the road of trying to make it work. Like everything else, the foundations are crucial to all that follows.

On a more optimistic note and hopefully to give a glimmer of light at the end of the proverbial tunnel to the OP. It will probably be the initial run from the boiler which needs upgrading. Once you get down to say 16 Kw or roughly 55000 BThu's, you could leave the copper alone and use the right size pump if that one doesn't cut it. I would have been tempted to look at a slightly larger bore pump with the same head but that needs calcs.

One other thing. I have been presuming all this is in copper tube which has a larger bore than plastic. If it is in plastic (apart from the 15mm copper mentioned) then it will need to be assessed with that in mind.

 

[exedon2]

I just wonder why you would go to all the trouble of new (undersized) pipework and not bother having 2 or more zones? Yes more pipework but immediately cuts pipe size except close to boiler.
Also is the (undersized) boiler achieving its rated output ? it has after all a elderly cast-iron heat exchanger.

 

[SJB060685]

I just wonder why you would go to all the trouble of new (undersized) pipework and not bother having 2 or more zones? Yes more pipework but immediately cuts pipe size except close to boiler.
Also is the (undersized) boiler achieving its rated output ? it has after all a elderly cast-iron heat exchanger.

I think its safe to say whoever did the work really doesn't understand the basics. I appreciate that's probably not what the OP wants to here but it's evidently true.
Personally I would advise the homeowner to rethink and consider upgrading the boiler and having someone capable to undertake the work.

 

[John.g]

Meanwhile, Steve has what he has, for the moment at any rate. He could shut off say 8 rads as a test and see if his boiler/circ pump can supply these, the boiler should cycle then as probably doesn't modulate, he has a thermal gun to check the boiler flow and return temperatures.
This thread is a continuation of the one "really old install - should I change things" and his system has two circ pumps, CH & HW?, can't identify the one shown (from that thread) as a "Grundfos UPS 15-60 130" whatever that is, I thought that the UPS were UPS2, UPS3 etc and UPS without a number is a single speed pump?, its also supposed to be only a few years old. Hope its not a secondary circ pump with less than a meter head.

 

[Buffy330]

Wow , gents thats a hell of lot of replies , and I thank you all for your input.

To clarify , I inherited this mess , and much of the original downstairs install was buried directly into concrete.

This is no longer the case , and all flow/return is 22mm now under the floor, but isolated from the concrete and new copper..
Digging it all up again is not currently an option Im afraid.

There were multiple branches coming off the flow/return where it emerged in the upstairs airing cupboard.

This is now one flow/return circuit , all in 22mm.

Thanks to some good advice , that went back to basics , I found a substantial blockage in the system , which to put simply , was preventing any circulation , and causing a great deal of noise.
Prior to this , the system has unfortunately caused a lot of head scratching and varied opinions to cure.

I have literally just downed tools after removing the blockage , and adding a good quality filter.

Result , ALL rads are so hot I can barely touch them.
I have installed a couple of litres of X400 system clean , and will drain down again in a week or so , flush out than add X100 inhibitor.
The system is now also silent.

Then I will balance the system and fingers crossed can say good bye to a problem that has plagued me for years.

Is there a moral here ?
Look at the basics , then move on from there .

If I need to replace the boiler in the future , I will be looking to Hydrogen of an Air source heat pump , if it can be made to work here.
I really dont feel in my opinion , than I need to go any bigger on pipe sizing and getting rid of several old legacy systems has also helped no end.

It just leaves me to say thank you for so much thought provoking input.
Had the unblocking not proved a success , then I would have had to work through the options as stated.

Thank you

Steve

 

[Timmy D]

Thanks for the update

Wow , gents thats a hell of lot of replies , and I thank you all for your input.

To clarify , I inherited this mess , and much of the original downstairs install was buried directly into concrete.

This is no longer the case , and all flow/return is 22mm now under the floor, but isolated from the concrete and new copper..
Digging it all up again is not currently an option Im afraid.

There were multiple branches coming off the flow/return where it emerged in the upstairs airing cupboard.

This is now one flow/return circuit , all in 22mm.

Thanks to some good advice , that went back to basics , I found a substantial blockage in the system , which to put simply , was preventing any circulation , and causing a great deal of noise.
Prior to this , the system has unfortunately caused a lot of head scratching and varied opinions to cure.

I have literally just downed tools after removing the blockage , and adding a good quality filter.

Result , ALL rads are so hot I can barely touch them.
I have installed a couple of litres of X400 system clean , and will drain down again in a week or so , flush out than add X100 inhibitor.
The system is now also silent.

Then I will balance the system and fingers crossed can say good bye to a problem that has plagued me for years.

Is there a moral here ?
Look at the basics , then move on from there .

If I need to replace the boiler in the future , I will be looking to Hydrogen of an Air source heat pump , if it can be made to work here.
I really dont feel in my opinion , than I need to go any bigger on pipe sizing and getting rid of several old legacy systems has also helped no end.

It just leaves me to say thank you for so much thought provoking input.
Had the unblocking not proved a success , then I would have had to work through the options as stated.

Thank you

Steve