Diagonal Heating Zones!!

[justasking]

Hope someone can help.

I have dual zone heating in my new build. I have a TPOne-M downstairs and a TPOne-B in the master bedroom upstairs. When I turn on the heating using the downstairs TPOne-M it heats up half of the ground floor, kitchen/diner, hallway and then 2 of the bedrooms upstairs (diagonally upstairs, not the bedrooms directly above the kitchen/diner). If I then turn on the heating in the master bedroom using the TPOne-B in that room, it heats up that room and all the rooms on that side of the house, but not two of the rooms on the opposite side. It also then heats up the living room downstairs which is diagonally positioned to the master bedroom. How do I change this so that it's a simple choice between upstairs (one zone) and down stairs (second zone)

so the downstairs is two large rectangles, one is a kitchen/diner the other a living room (both the same size), split by a hallway (narrower rectangle) and stairs leading up.

the upstairs is 2 bedrooms above the living room and another 2 above the kitchen/diner with a family bathroom over the downstairs hallway.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

It’s the layout of the pipework, so that would need changing.

 

[king of pipes]

As Undertrained has said it's the pipework that's the issue get onto the developer it's their responsibility to correct this . Kop

 

[Basher]

If there's an upstairs manifold and a downstairs manifold, could it be a mistake in the wiring of the valves, rather than wrongly connected pipework?

 

[Deleted member 120897]

If there's an upstairs manifold and a downstairs manifold, could it be a mistake in the wiring of the valves, rather than wrongly connected pipework?

If it were the wiring then it would be a case of upstairs controlling downstairs and vice versa.

 

[Basher]

If it were the wiring then it would be a case of upstairs controlling downstairs and vice versa.

OK. I was thinking of manifolds with individual valves for each loop, ie with potential to control the bedrooms separately from the living rooms etc. But now realise it doesn't have those. Cheers!

 

[justasking]

It’s the layout of the pipework, so that would need changing.

when you say pipework, are we talking about the pipework in the cupboard with the water tank etc where all the valves are located or in all the rooms?

 

[Deleted member 120897]

when you say pipework, are we talking about the pipework in the cupboard with the water tank etc where all the valves are located or in all the rooms?

Sort of, but it’s likely to be under the floor where it’s either a manifold or a series of tee joints.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Tbh your fecked best to put it all on one zone and live with it won’t comply with building regs but will work or go with a evo home system and have electronic trvs builders won’t pay for that as not cheap

 

[justasking]

Tbh your fecked best to put it all on one zone and live with it won’t comply with building regs but will work or go with a evo home system and have electronic trvs builders won’t pay for that as not cheap

why fecked? if they just need to work where the tank etc is, no?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

why fecked? if they just need to work where the tank etc is, no?

Nope rip all the floors or ceilings out it’s plumbed / piped wrong to the rads

 

[justasking]

Nope rip all the floors or ceilings out it’s plumbed / piped wrong to the rads

Looking at the plans the radiators boiler and tank etc are all in the correct place, if the house builder builds several of the same type (model) of house (which they have) then surely it's a mistake where everything joins together in the cupboard upstairs.

The boiler is in the utility room Baxi heat assure, directly above it on the first floor is the tank cupboard containing a therma evocycl cylinder plus a small red tank and a small white tank, all the pipes running to the radiators must be in the same place, no?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Nope as the zone pipe work is in / under the floor so all the houses are the same / have your problem

 

[ShaunCorbs]

For example

See that radiator pipe work is separate to each zone so if there’s a rad on the wrong zone / mismatched all the pipework would need altering under the floor

 

[justasking]

looking at it again it seems the living room and the bedrooms directly above the living room have been confused by the installer hopefully there won't be too much destruction

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Ceiling will likely have to come down

 

[king of pipes]

What ever needs doing then its the developers responsibility they should instruct their heating contractors to correct the mistake ? , They are often slow to react to the problems be persistent but polite you have done well to diagnose the issue , are the manifolds visible or accessable? can you see the motorised valves with possibly a silver box on top ? a few pictures may help if the contractor has access to the manifolds? it could be quite simple to swap 4 pipes over once identified, or it may mean removing a floor covering and taking up a section of floor for access, worst case it's a section of ceiling may need to be removed. Regards kop

 

[justasking]

What ever needs doing then its the developers responsibility they should instruct their heating contractors to correct the mistake ? , They are often slow to react to the problems be persistent but polite you have done well to diagnose the issue , are the manifolds visible or accessable? can you see the motorised valves with possibly a silver box on top ? a few pictures may help if the contractor has access to the manifolds? it could be quite simple to swap 4 pipes over once identified, or it may mean removing a floor covering and taking up a section of floor for access, worst case it's a section of ceiling may need to be removed. Regards kop

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Unfortunately, looking at those photos the floor/ceiling would need to be removed for access.

 

[justasking]

Unfortunately, looking at those photos the floor/ceiling would need to be removed for access.

...new builds....

 

[justasking]

out of interest can you see any other mistakes they need to correct.

 

[justasking]

...and haven't mentioned it so far, but thanks for all the info from everyone.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

out of interest can you see any other mistakes they need to correct.

Nothing jumps out, but I don’t have my unvented qualification, so maybe someone else can spot something.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Looks ok but a question would be what type of plastic pipe have they used for the d2 / unvented safety discharge

Needs to be mupvc or pushfit

Can’t be normal waste pipe eg abs / pvc

 

[justasking]

Looks ok but a question would be what type of plastic pipe have they used for the d2 / unvented safety discharge

Needs to be mupvc or pushfit

Can’t be normal waste pipe eg abs / pvc

Thanks could you rephrase that with red tank , white tank, left or right...about the level of my experience so I can point it out to them, thank you...

 

[ShaunCorbs]

yes not a problem

White pipe coming out the floor plastic around 11/2 dia

3rd from the right going to the left

 

[justasking]

Also towards the top of the tank where there is a red "button" below a grey "button" on the copper pipe is some dried green liquid (can see it in the photo if you zoom in) is this normal?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That would be flux hot water and a green and yellow scrubbing should take it off

 

[justasking]

Have reported it to the developer, another question and apologies in advance if it sounds strange or the answer is obvious.

If i set the heating to 19 degrees on the TPOne and the temperature is 18.0 the TPOne make a click sound, a radiator symbol appears and this causes the boiler to fires up and the radiators get hot the boiler then switches off once the radiator symbol disappears on the TPOne.

However every time the temperature drops to 18.5 the TPOne make a click sound, the symbol appears and the boiler fires up, there is a click sound from the boiler and the sound of gas burning the ENTIRE time the heating symbol is on the TPOne. In our previous house with an older system and a megaflo tank, I never recall the boiler firing up every single time. Is this how newer systems work. On occasion within 30 minutes the boiler fires up several times, isn't there meant to be a store of water somewhere or is this entirely normal for a 2 zone system. The only difference in the old house was the make of the tank (megaflo) and boiler from my inexperienced eyes! It's really annoying and surely not good for the boiler...?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

One of your heating eg rads is calling for heat eg it shouldn’t happen let’s say if you turn the stats down to 16 once the house is heated

 

[justasking]

One of your heating eg rads is calling for heat eg it shouldn’t happen let’s say if you turn the stats down to 16 once the house is heated

but otherwise normal for the boiler to fire each and every time when heating is called for....so if you set the heating to come on for an hour if it fires up 10 times in that hour it's ok?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes as it’s keeping the internal temp to the lost heat

 

[king of pipes]

There are ways to control this better the TPone can operate in open therm , check with your electrical contractor I'm quite sure the Baxi assure is compatible also . Google open therm for a detailed guide of how it works and how best to use it . Kop

 

[ShaunCorbs]

There are ways to control this better the TPone can operate in open therm , check with your electrical contractor I'm quite sure the Baxi assure is compatible also . Google open therm for a detailed guide of how it works and how best to use it . Kop

Heat only

 

[king of pipes]

Heat only

Heat only

Correction open therm wouldn't work , but weather compensation or load compensation would a call to Baxi might be advisable for guidance on the best way forward . Kop

 

[justasking]

Thanks could you rephrase that with red tank , white tank, left or right...about the level of my experience so I can point it out to them, thank you...

yes not a problem

White pipe coming out the floor plastic around 11/2 dia

3rd from the right going to the left

Hi Guys, they are coming to fix the diagonal heating zones tomorrow. Please could I have some more info in respect of the white pipe issue above. I attach a few more photos, it looks like 2 bits of plastic pipes stuck together one thinner than the other. Do these photos help you identify whether it is the correct type. Don't want to be fobbed off, so any technical phrases or standards that have been contravened would help. Thanks in advance.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

If you lift up the carpet where it goes through you might be able to see how it’s joined below the floor eg elbow

If you see this (wrong) normally abs or pvc

This (correct ) normally polypropylene

 

[Deleted member 120897]

It’s a Hepvo valve (like a trap, but waterless). Probably has the condensate running into it. As per Shaun, should be in solvent weld

 

[Deleted member 120897]

If you lift up the carpet where it goes through you might be able to see how it’s joined below the floor eg elbow

If you see this (wrong) normally abs or pvc

View attachment 78949
This (correct ) normally polypropylene

View attachment 78950

Push fit on conduit pipe?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Push fit on conduit pipe?

On an unvented discharge eg d2 pipe yes most new builds are just solvent eg glued which it can’t be on an unvented

 

[justasking]

Hi Guys, they are coming to fix the diagonal heating zones tomorrow. Please could I have some more info in respect of the white pipe issue above. I attach a few more photos, it looks like 2 bits of plastic pipes stuck together one thinner than the other. Do these photos help you identify whether it is the correct type. Don't want to be fobbed off, so any technical phrases or standards that have been contravened would help. Thanks in advance

Hi Guys, they are coming to fix the diagonal heating zones tomorrow. Please could I have some more info in respect of the white pipe issue above. I attach a few more photos, it looks like 2 bits of plastic pipes stuck together one thinner than the other. Do these photos help you identify whether it is the correct type. Don't want to be fobbed off, so any technical phrases or standards that have been contravened would help. Thanks in advance.

If you lift up the carpet where it goes through you might be able to see how it’s joined below the floor eg elbow

If you see this (wrong) normally abs or pvc

View attachment 78949
This (correct ) normally polypropylene

View attachment 78950

Sadly lifting the carpet doesn't help (see photo) but I think it is going straight down, to be clear are you concerned about the material the white part directly above the carpet is made out of? The wider plastic pipe with the logo on it seems like a much better quality plastic, the thinner part with all the marks on it looks like a much cheaper pipe. Sorry if that sounds stupid.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Could you get a torch and see if there’s a fitting down there ?

 

[justasking]

Also based on the original photos of the boiler and tanks, i don't know if there is anything in the loft, I am guessing not. What type of a boiler system do I have is it Combi, system...etc, I have tried following the diagrams on boiler manufacturer websites but I can't find one that looks like mine....

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Heat only
Unvented cylinder and 3 heating zones

 

[justasking]

Also based on the original photos of the boiler and tanks, i don't know if there is anything in the loft, I am guessing not. What type of a boiler system do I have is it Combi, system...etc, I have tried following the diagrams on boiler manufacturer websites but I can't find one that looks like mine....

Could you get a torch and see if there’s a fitting down there ?

Used an endoscope camera...this is through the gap in the previous photo looks like another bit of board followed by a black pipe..

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Correct pipe used so that’s good eg pushfit pp

 

[justasking]

Heat only
Unvented cylinder and 3 heating zones

3...upstairs, downstairs.....and whole house to make 3?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Down, up and hot water cylinder

Now depending on the spec it might be down and up on one zone, master bedroom on its own and hot water

 

[justasking]

Down, up and hot water cylinder

Now depending on the spec it might be down and up on one zone, master bedroom on its own and hot water

Thank you so much for all your info, real shame you are in north wales (beautiful though) or would love for you to carry out our first service. Thank you.