electric shower problems

[lbp plg & htg]

not like a toaster at all

Haha!

 

[AlexGas]

Peace!
Thought, I would post it again, hope you’ll find this interesting:

From BS 7671:2008 (Electrical Regs - 17th edition to you and me)
114 RELATIONSHIP WITH STATUTORY REGULATIONS
114.1 The Regulations are non-statutory. They may, however, be used in a court of low in evidence to claim compliance with a statutory requirements. And it goes on ……………………….

Basically, as long as you know what you are doing - you can do whatever you want (almost) but when you are end up in the court – the Regs (17th) will be used to make sure everything you’ve done is up to scratch. If you are not sure – get someone in who knows – a competent person.

From the same regs:
134 ERECTION AND INITIOAL VERIFICATION OF ELECTRICAL INSTALLATIONS. 134.1 ERECTION
134.1.1 Good workmanship by competent persons or persons under their supervision and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installations. Blah, blah, blah….

If you are doing it yourself – make sure you do it right.
Keep safe!

 

[lbp plg & htg]

Peace!
Thought, I would post it again, hope you’ll find this interesting:

From BS 7671:2008 (Electrical Regs - 17th edition to you and me)
114 RELATIONSHIP WITH STATUTORY REGULATIONS
114.1 The Regulations are non-statutory. They may, however, be used in a court of low in evidence to claim compliance with a statutory requirements. And it goes on ……………………….

Basically, as long as you know what you are doing - you can do whatever you want (almost) but when you are end up in the court – the Regs (17th) will be used to make sure everything you’ve done is up to scratch. If you are not sure – get someone in who knows – a competent person.

From the same regs:
134 ERECTION AND INITIOAL VERIFICATION OF ELECTRICAL INSTALLATIONS. 134.1 ERECTION
134.1.1 Good workmanship by competent persons or persons under their supervision and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installations. Blah, blah, blah….

If you are doing it yourself – make sure you do it right.
Keep safe!

Like I said - Part P not required. Thank - you AlexGas

 

[Howsie]

To take the load without overheating the cable. All showers of 8.5kw and above must be 10mm twin and earth minimum. If the cable run is a long one it should be increased to 12mm.

Agreed but didn't see that it was 8.5kw.

 

[nicro3]

peace!
Thought, i would post it again, hope you’ll find this interesting:

From bs 7671:2008 (electrical regs - 17th edition to you and me)
114 relationship with statutory regulations
114.1 the regulations are non-statutory. They may, however, be used in a court of low in evidence to claim compliance with a statutory requirements. And it goes on ……………………….

Basically, as long as you know what you are doing - you can do whatever you want (almost) but when you are end up in the court – the regs (17th) will be used to make sure everything you’ve done is up to scratch. If you are not sure – get someone in who knows – a competent person.

From the same regs:
134 erection and initioal verification of electrical installations. 134.1 erection
134.1.1 good workmanship by competent persons or persons under their supervision and proper materials shall be used in the erection of the electrical installations. Blah, blah, blah….

If you are doing it yourself – make sure you do it right.
Keep safe!

unless you are being payed for it

 

[Guest123]

Lets get things into perspective here guys - shower manufacturers replace electric showers all the time, no part P and no proving of the circuit. Its like swapping a toaster.

That is their standard, but no way would I or for that matter anyone I know, not fit a new shower to current safety regs.

Back in the day, consumer boxes were installed in garages and in basement cupboards etc and showers were a paltry 7kw and no better than a glorified toaster with water going through them. Consumer boxes in the 80's were smaller as there was much less electrical demand on them. Nowadays we have so many large appliances on standby and showers are far more powerful than their original counterparts. All showers must be fitted with 10mm twin and earth minimum, terminating at the consumer box with a separate RCD for safety.

 

[dancinplumba]

how do you prove competence in a court of law when cust frazzled ? by being a gsr ?

 

[Best]

The thermal cut out can be gone on electric showers. Extremely common with Mira showers. Such an easy job to replace & just £11. I wouldn't throw a shower away just because it is a thermal cut out, as it is so easy to test. Live power just goes to the cut out & through it to the elements.
I saw one shower where a large plumbing firm had said the Mira shower needed replaced for £350. Just a thermal cut out from local Mira agent sorted it.

 

[AlexGas]

.......

 

[SimonG]

how do you prove competence in a court of law when cust frazzled ? by being a gsr ?

By handing him the minor works certificate provided by your qualified electrician.

 

[lame plumber]

As stated, by doing it right such that courts aren't involved. Time to shut this down guys. Night Night:8:

 

[Guest123]

how do you prove competence in a court of law when cust frazzled ? by being a gsr ?

Naw, a TSR.....toaster registered engineer.

 

[AlexGas]

All showers must be fitted with 10mm twin and earth minimum, terminating at the consumer box with a separate RCD for safety.

Sorry, not all at all. Power showers only need a 3A fuse and 30mA RCD. 2.5mm cable will be fine.

 

[Guest123]

Ok Alex, but it's a electric instantaneous jobbie we're discussing here?

 

[dancinplumba]

As stated, by doing it right such that courts aren't involved. Time to shut this down guys. Night Night:8:

yes oh messiah, am truly staggered by your knowledge of plumbing and electrics:smartass:

 

[AlexGas]

how do you prove competence in a court of law when cust frazzled ? by being a gsr ?

They will look at your install. It's either pass or fail.

 

[tamz]

To take the load without overheating the cable. All showers of 8.5kw and above must be 10mm twin and earth minimum. If the cable run is a long one it should be increased to 12mm.

You have got that one wrong.
It needs to be suitably sized to suit the load and how it is run.
A bit like saying a 24kw boiler needs an 22mm gas pipe. It doesn't necessarily but it does need a properly sized one.

 

[lbp plg & htg]

.......View attachment 9417

Easy peasy.

 

[nicro3]

How do you get registered to be a TSR is it a long or expensive course

 

[Guest123]

You have got that one wrong.
It needs to be suitably sized to suit the load and how it is run.
A bit like saying a 24kw boiler needs an 22mm gas pipe. It doesn't necessarily but it does need a properly sized one.

Yes that is what I said, it should be sized to suit the load and run, and increased if the run is a long one. But 10mm is now the minimum and any M.I I've read recently states this.

 

[dancinplumba]

They will look at your install. It's either pass or fail.

same as gas then

 

[SimonG]

Sod the electric and fit a nice thermostatic mixer off of the combi hot and cold.

 

[Guest123]

Sod the electric and fit a nice thermostatic mixer off of the combi hot and cold.

Most sensible suggestion all bloody night.LOL

 

[gasmanrob]

ive just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading this

 

[Guest123]

How do you get registered to be a TSR is it a long or expensive course

As long as you work out a discount with Warburtons, it can be quite cost effective.

 

[SimonG]

Most sensible suggestion all bloody night.LOL

Well that's my one for the year, thought i wasn't going to get it in this year

 

[lame plumber]

Do you have to be qualified to put in a mixer shower ?? :29:

 

[TBServices]

All I am saying to you is check you are insured to undertake electrical work however small you think it may be. By the way I have got a life.

Tbf bud a large part of that life seems to be winding people up.

Who in their right mind would pass up a job as simple as wiring a shower? If you get there and the cable/isolation/fuse looks dodgy then you walk away. Simple.

 

[Guest123]

Do you have to be qualified to put in a mixer shower ?? :29:

As long as you know how to wire it up, reckon you'll be just fine ;-))

 

[dancinplumba]

Do you have to be qualified to put in a mixer shower ?? :29:

no, just prove competence

 

[AlexGas]

There’s, defo, no need for a guessing game or cutting corners in gas or electrical works – you ether know how to do a job or not. Also, you have to be switched on – so you understand what you need to do on a job, otherwise you might end up on the news and will be getting a free food - in prison that is. The choice is yours.

 

[Guest123]

On the subject of regs, wireless electricity is just about a decade a way. No plugs, no cables, just one big control box, digitally controlled by a computer. Wonder what that will do for a sparks career?

 

[Howsie]

On the subject of regs, wireless electricity is just about a decade a way. No plugs, no cables, just one big control box, digitally controlled by a computer. Wonder what that will do for a sparks career?

Fast path plumber

 

[tamz]

Yes that is what I said, it should be sized to suit the load and run, and increased if the run is a long one. But 10mm is now the minimum and any M.I I've read recently states this.

From a Triton MI
9.2 In the majority of installations, the cable
will unavoidably be placed in one or more
of the above conditions. This being so, it
is strongly recommended to use a
minimum of 10mm cabling throughout
the shower installation.
9.3 In any event, it is essential that individual
site conditions are assessed by a competent
electrician in order to determine the correct
cable size and permissible circuit length.

What that basically says is stick a 10mm in and it should be fine but not always. It could require a bigger cable (16mm) or you may be able to safely use a 6mm if it is a short surface run.
That is why it is best left to those who know how to work it out to do the work and take the responsibility.
Same as gas.

 

[tamz]

On the subject of regs, wireless electricity is just about a decade a way. No plugs, no cables, just one big control box, digitally controlled by a computer. Wonder what that will do for a sparks career?

I would worry more about what it would do to those living with it.

 

[lame plumber]

no, just prove competence

Heeeeeeee's back!

 

[Howsie]

I would worry more about what it would do to those living with it.

You'll be able to see them in the dark!

 

[dancinplumba]

I would worry more about what it would do to those living with it.

would be like being in a microwave oven

 

[Guest123]

I agree with what you're saying about leccy for electricians and gas for gsr's. That's why I carry 2 sparks on every job to fit everything from downlights to showers, as they know what they are doing and more importantly are qualified to do so. 10mm is the recommended cable size and when I did my stint with our local council, any tenant vacating a property that had installed a shower with under 10mm cable had to have it removed.

One I removed in Edinburgh this year was wired up to a light switch under the bath with 4mm flex and the heat had fused the copper core to the switch itself.

 

[dancinplumba]

Heeeeeeee's back!

avent been anywhere yet

 

[Guest123]

Kiddies, can Mr Mod play too?

 

[lame plumber]

I thought we already had wireless leccy, I call it lightning

 

[Guest123]

I would worry more about what it would do to those living with it.

It will be shielded. Wireless leccy tellys are just round the corner.

 

[lame plumber]

Kiddies, can Mr Mod play too?

ON NO YOU CAN'T or BEHIND YOU after all its panto time

 

[tamz]

It will be shielded. Wireless leccy tellys are just round the corner.

No in my house the're not :lol:

 

[AlexGas]

From a Triton MI
9.2 In the majority of installations, the cable
will unavoidably be placed in one or more
of the above conditions. This being so, it
is strongly recommended to use a
minimum of 10mm cabling throughout
the shower installation.
9.3 In any event, it is essential that individual
site conditions are assessed by a competent
electrician in order to determine the correct
cable size and permissible circuit length.

What that basically says is stick a 10mm in and it should be fine but not always. It could require a bigger cable (16mm) or you may be able to safely use a 6mm if it is a short surface run.
That is why it is best left to those who know how to work it out to do the work and take the responsibility.
Same as gas.

It's better to put 10mm cable in. A 7.5kW shower will be fine on 8mm cable. But, say a year later you are comming back to the same house - a 10kW shower needs to go in... DOH! 10mm cable has to run that. Why not to put 10mm in the first place!?

 

[Guest123]

For anyone wanting something totally useless to read, here's a link about wireless leccy:
WiTricity Corp. Home ? Wireless Electricity Delivered Over Distance

 

[nicro3]

Tbf bud a large part of that life seems to be winding people up.

Who in their right mind would pass up a job as simple as wiring a shower? If you get there and the cable/isolation/fuse looks dodgy then you walk away. Simple.

TBF Chum no its not

 

[lame plumber]

It's better to put 10mm cable in. A 7.5kW shower will be fine on 8mm cable. But, say a year later you are comming back to the same house - a 10kW shower needs to go in... DOH! 10mm cable has to run that. Why not to put 10mm in the first place!?

cmon alex we left the thread a long way back, it wireless leccy and panto land now!

 

[Guest123]

Seven pages and 100 posts all about hee haw, that's Saturday night for you. :yesnod: