Soldered joints keep leaking a little

[Georgie]

Hi All,

I've found that when soldering pipes with pre-soldered connectors they always leak a little bit. My technique is to put some flux on the pipe, push the connector on and then blowtorch one side until the solder drops out.

Should I do anything else? Maybe my blowtorch is to hot/cold? I also wondered if i should try and move the blowtorch around the pipe to evenly distribute the heat.


any suggestions welcome

 

[Howsie]

Moving the heat around helps. What flux are you using? Are you cleaning the pipe/fitting first?

 

[Georgie]

I have some wickes own brand flux i believe. Is there a recommended brand?

Other than flux i havent cleaned the pipe, they are new but thinking about it perhaps i should rub some wire wool around before flux?

Is 10 minutes enough time to wait before turning the water on? Thanks

 

[Howsie]

Worth experimenting with flux to find one that suits your style of soldering.

You can put water through very soon afterwards, ten mins in plenty.

 

[snowhead]

Clean the fitting
Clean the pipe
Mark the pipe so you know how far it's in the fitting.
Use flux on both pipe and fitting if inexperienced.
Flux just before soldering, don't flux the day before.
Make sure you are using the hottest part of the flame.
If it's 15mm you'll get away without moving the blowlamp, bigger pipes you need to move the flame around.

 

[Mike Jackson]

On solder ring fittings I apply the flame to the pipe adjacent to the fitting and wait until the solder is drawn out and forms a ring around the fitting. If solder drips out there will not be enough solder left to seal the joint properly.

Cleaning the pipe is good pratice but with most modern self cleaning fluxes you can get away without cleaning, although I wouldn't recommend it. There is definitely no need to flux both pipe and fitting, just flux the pipe and twist it in the fitting to distribute onto the fitting as well. Any excess will be pushed out. If the fitting is fluxed excess will be pushed into the pipework and can cause corrosion and draw solder into the pipe which can cause those annoying jangly balls of solder that sit in pumps.

 

[Georgie]

Thanks guy appreciate it. I'll give it a go.

Can a blowtorch be to hot or to cold for solder? The one I have is a £20 job with a gas canister attached. It's heat settings are pretty much the same - a roaring blue flame. Roughly how long should it take for the solder to come out? 20-30 seconds?

 

[Mike Jackson]

It can be too hot, especially for someone inexperienced. You want an even heat. Blasting at it with a flame that is too fierce can also scorch the flux and it loses it's effectiveness.

 

[Masood]

As Mike says, heating till the solder drips out might leave too little solder in the fitting. Heat with a fairly gentle flame until you see a ring of silver around the mouth of the fitting, then stop.

Try and assemble the fitting completely before applying heat. If you solder one side of it at a time there's a chance you'll loosen the ones you've already done when you reapply heat.

 

[helpsy]

Flux pipe only

 

[Scott_D]

Any water in the pipe work?
Have you left an open end somewhere to allow the expanding air out?

 

[Phil_Plumb]

The others guys replies are quite right, an even heat is required, not blasting the life out of the fitting! I use LA-CO flux its rather an agressive flux but on new copper can sometimes negate the need for cleaning with steel wool, so you can use a green scrub cloth instead. Other fluxes i have used is everflux, its a whiteish paste, but i dont think it produces as good as a result as LACO, that said thats my own opinion. you could always wipe the joint with the solder brush after cleaning, thats how i was taught anyway!

 

[secret squirrel]

Wickes flux.....

I've used all the main ones and I prefer everflux, I only clean the tube if its got paint on it (obviously?) or covered in rubbish, flux both tube and fitting, unless new tube and new fitting, then flux tube only. then blast it with heat, well gently anyway.

 

[Best]

Everyone has their own flux they are used to. I don't use Everflux as it is very corrosive. I use Fluxite greased based flux or the similar Yorkshire Traditional flux. I have always assumed Laco flux was non toxic & therefore non aggressive??
Clean the fittings & pipe & don't let solder run out of the bottom of vertical joints if possible & end feed some solder in. Don't over heat - when you see the solder appearing, the joint is near done.
Dip the solder wire tip into flux as you solder.
Why not use end feed fittings, especially for non potable water like on a heating system & use leaded solder?

 

[DTBPlumbing]

I know plumbers who use carbide strip and clean (scratch) pipe and fitting even if brand new and shiny. Im not overly convinced its necessary to clean brand new fittings.
Surely no matter how careful you are there will be joints that will fail every so often.

 

[Best]

I know plumbers who use carbide strip and clean (scratch) pipe and fitting even if brand new and shiny. Im not overly convinced its necessary to clean brand new fittings.
Surely no matter how careful you are there will be joints that will fail every so often.

It is probably better to clean Yorkshire fittings first with emery cloth as they are often very dirty, glazed & rough solder inside them. The more aggressive fluxes may clean them ok though, but I don't use them. Tarnished/old copper pipes are easier cleaned with emery cloth.
If you have a good soldering method & are careful plus consistent with each fitting, you will never have leaks. IMO

 

[Phil_Plumb]

Everyone has their own flux they are used to. I don't use Everflux as it is very corrosive. I use Fluxite greased based flux or the similar Yorkshire Traditional flux. I have always assumed Laco flux was non toxic & therefore non aggressive??
Clean the fittings & pipe & don't let solder run out of the bottom of vertical joints if possible & end feed some solder in. Don't over heat - when you see the solder appearing, the joint is near done.
Dip the solder wire tip into flux as you solder.
Why not use end feed fittings, especially for non potable water like on a heating system & use leaded solder?

No LACO is v aggresive. If you leave laco flux ob a bit of copper for a while you will notice a green staining. This is tge laco eating into the copper. You should never for this reason wash your flux brush down the kitchen or bathroom sink as the flux attacks the plastic waste pipes.

Still i know plenty that do and im guilty of that now and again.

 

[SimonG]

Cleanliness is the key to a good soldered joint and good timing. Clean both pipe and fitting, even if new, flux pipe, slip on fitting and for solder ring fittings heat the pipe and draw the flux out, once you have a ring around the fitting stop. On bigger fittings I'll also top up the solder.

 

[zzzjim]

For good results .....Cleanliness and not wiggling bits around as cools/sets !

 

[CXR100]

i hate fittings with solder in them , dont trust them , dont know why , and i think they have too much solder in them and it always runs down the pipes if they run vertical! i apply solder myself, minimal , just so it runs around and sucks into the fitting , not till its dripping all over the floor!

 

[erpkid]

Once the solder goes dull it is safe to wipe down and clean up excess flux etc. If it is shiny it will still move and possibly fail. Fittings with solder are excellent but a bit dear on a big job.

 

[supper plumb]

lowish heat youll see the flame start turning green time to apply the solder
clean both pipe and fittings i use a deburrer for pipe and fitting brush for fittings....
or what ever is to hand wire wool pipe cleaning pads
Dont flux the fittings as it pushes flux into the pipe work. i use powerflow flux as its a self cleaner non heat activated but still clean the pipe

 

[SWLondon Ltd.]

Georgie, I admire the fact you are having a go, and why not, its the only way anyone will get better, at anything?
No disrespect intended, but, It seems unlikely you will get a 1st class finish they way you're going about it.
Your torch sounds as if it would be better suited to burning paint from windows?
If you are wanting to do your own soldering in the future, treat yourself to a new rothenberger, if your lucky you can pick them up now on ebay for as little as £40 or any plumbers merchant >£70.
A decent flux and brush, Lacco, some prefer everflux, its ok, but to be honest that reacts with my skin.so I dont use it!
I can't stress enough about cleaning your copper. you must clean your work its a matter of pride! a clean joint is a dry one!
Wire wool is the best thing to use, If need be get some gloves? Think shiny.
Only apply flux to the pipe, NOT the fitting. Not too much and even, spin as you unite them.
Pre soldered fittings, in my opinion, are unreliable. I have used them, but still used solder, just to be sure, so a waste of money.Use end feed and you're in control.
A nice even torch flame, if its only 1/2" pipe it doesn't need to be silly hot. If it seems loud when its on, its probably too hot. Gently offer the flame over the pipe, usually when you see it smoking its ready, touch the solder to the joint and gently push it in, pull your flame away from pipe, a little, run solder around joint. knock off any excess solder.and you should be good on all your joints. remember to clean it up after. Shiny!
I hope that helps, post a picture when you do it? Good luck.
Kind regards
SWLondon Ltd.
1) Always clean your fitting and your pipe.
Any one telling you different should be run out of dodge theres plumbers and theres plumbers!

 

[mountainman]

Practice makes perfect for sure; but have you ever received instruction from an experienced engineer.
TBH soldering is a doddle but when I started in the game we spent several days cleaning, soldering and cutting open fittings to see if there were any potential weaknesses.
I still remember those days and many more on other subjects.

 

[Gray0689]

lowish heat youll see the flame start turning green time to apply the solder
clean both pipe and fittings i use a deburrer for pipe and fitting brush for fittings....
or what ever is to hand wire wool pipe cleaning pads
Dont flux the fittings as it pushes flux into the pipe work. i use powerflow flux as its a self cleaner non heat activated but still clean the pipe

Jeez your supper at it

 

[Mike Jackson]

Wire wool is the best thing to use,

Abrasive strips are much better. Wire wool can leave little splinters of steel that compromise the joint.

There is also no need to add extra solder to a solder ring joint. If heated correctly there is just the right amount of solder.

 

[SWLondon Ltd.]

Thanks for the input mike, if you had read my post correctly you would have seen that I personally add solder to the joints as I don't trust them, not because you need too? Better to be safe than sorry? Also Who can say if wire wool or abrasive strips are better? Surely if you had a big enough splinter of wire wool this would be seen when you are applying flux, and removed then? I think its a matter of opinion, don't you?
Kind regards
SWLondon

 

[supper plumb]

PMT PMS maybe swlondon Ltd is going through the change:6:

 

[zzzjim]

Surely if you had a big enough splinter of wire wool this would be seen when you are applying flux,

Probably depends on eye sight , why risk wire wool , delicate electronics
(ie-Boilers) don't like it ,and always gets attracted to tools (Very neatly)

 

[PlumberTiler]

If you keep having trouble with yorkshire fittings then dont use them. It is a pain in the arse when joints dont hold. I would air on the side of caution & just solder it yourself. Only adds another 10secs when your soldering it anyway.

 

[Phil_Plumb]

i prefer end feed anyway, takes same amount of time to solder, and the fittings are cheaper too!