Worst job ever...

[LPC]

Put in a full central heating system last week. 4 bed house, 5 day job; Vaillant Ecotec Plus 837 w/rads and all pipework. Got to go back in a few weeks and put the rads back on (took them off at end so they can decorate). 3.5k worth of materials in there, obv not paid yet until I go back and put rads back on and re-fill.

Get a call today, customers missus. 'We're not happy with your work, could you come round so we can discuss'.

So i'm like 'Yeah fine' , KNOWING that everything is spot on done correctly, no corners cut anywhere.

So I get there, and it's them and this bathroom fitter/plumber. He's told them that...are you sitting down.

1) The radiators should be piped in 22mm all the way to every rad, with the last 6 inches in 15mm.

2)I have cut out a 22mm hot pipe in the landing and replaced with 15mm. It should be 22mm.

This bellend stands in front of me and tells me that this is how it should be, and that's how it is in his house and EVERYONES house that he knows. Yes, really. Now, for reasons unknown, the customers are taking advice from this ****tard.

But wait, it gets better. Apparantly, they rang Vaillant, and Vaillant said it should be 22mm to all rads!!!!! Yes!!!

(shhh; don't even mention microbore....)

So; told them straight: bathroom man has absolutely no idea what he's talking about (he didn't like that, got all in my face, but yeah) and they are clearly mistaken about something they spoke to Vaillant about (my money is on them getting the gas pipe mixed up with the heating pipes).

So, i'm now awaiting the results of an email to Vaillant tomorrow......and possibly an extremely stern word with my Vaillant rep yada yada never fitting Vaillants again if that's the crap they're telling customers.

It also transpires that they rang another local engineer for advice; who told them i'm very well known in the area for an extremely high standard of work and basically corroborated every single thing i've done and said to them.
The customer didn't tell me that, the engineer actually rang me up and told me even though I don't actually know him.


So, yeah, stress.

 

[tamz]

Bas tar ds probably looking for some of your 3.5k to pay the bathroom retard.
Find out where he drinks and knock fu ck out the cant.

 

[SimonG]

I would have said it was £xxxx.xx at end then £xxxx.xx to take off rads and put back on after decorating.



Did you do a single pipe sysrem Or is that as far as the bathroom fitter has read in his heating books

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Yes I concur it is standard practice to run flow/return pipes in 22mm to rads as a minimum size, I actually prefer to use 28mm.....NOT!!
feel for you buddy!!

 

[LPC]

I'm working on ruining that ***** but i'm going to wait until i'm paid first He's extremely lucky I have great anger restraint.

There are no more than 3 rads off any 22mm branch. Most are straight off 22mm to the rad in 15mm.

As soon as this is sorted i'm asking for full payment to finish the job (5k). I have all his trvs, paperwork and controls at my house Not taking a risk on another numpty coming in and making trouble.

The best bit was when I said 'So what about microbore' to him and it went:

Me: So how come the boiler will work with microbore then, as stated in the manual?
Him: Have you ever fitted microbore???
Me: No, it's ****.
Him: THEN HOW DO YOU KNOW???
Me: ????

That is seriously how it went.

 

[TFGplumbing]

My only question is.. how did you managed not to chin the bathroom fitter?

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Best register the boiler and get the details sent to your house as back up.

 

[LPC]

THis was the email I sent to him tonight. Point 3 is about the bathroom fitter said he wasn't going to replace the ancient pipes in the bathroom before fitting the bathroom.....

Hi xxxxx; I just wanted to put in writing some points I made tonight so that it is clear.

1) The heating system in your property has been piped correctly using 22mm main runs and then 15mm to radiators.
22mm to the radiators is not done, isn't done and is not the correct way to install a heating system. Myself, xxxxx (an engineer of over 30 years) and another engineer of over 20 years that I spoke to tonight has NEVER seen a professionally installed system done in this way. Your boiler (Ecotec Plus 837) is suitable for mini-bore and micro-bore systems (as stated in the installation manual); ie it will workperfectly on 8mm pipe runs, let alone 15mm off 22mm. Most houses these days are piped with a few metres of 22mm pipes (flow/return) from the boiler and then straight to a manifold feeding long runs of 8mm pipe.


I can only assume a mix-up has been made between heating and gas pipe supply? (your gas run is 28mm from meter with the last few metres in 22mm straight into the boiler). The 'last six inches in 15mm' rings of a Vaillant Ecotec Plus 831/Pro 24/28 where the last 6 inches of the gas connection is a manufacturer provided 15mm pipe.


If the information given is repeated then I will be calling my Vaillant representative immediately to find out why wildly incorrect technical information is being given to customers.





2) With the flow rates under mains pressure hot, 15mm hot pipes are optimal. The inlet into the boiler is 15mm, as is the outlet. 22mm hot pipes are a waste of water and gas, reduces efficiency and increases the time taken for hot water delivery to the outlets.


3) In my opinion and working practice, I would not even consider NOT re-piping a bathroom containing old pipes such as yours. For the relatively little work and cost involved for doing so, it really is a no brainer and would be standard practice for any bathroom fitter.. It just isn't worth NOT doing it, especially if the floor is to be tiled.






I'm sure you understand my anxiety after carrying out a good and proper install at your property, having it called into question in this way.


I am confident this will be resolved once you have taken advice from correctly qualified persons.


Regards,
xxxxxx

 

[Rickster123]

THis was the email I sent to him tonight. Point 3 is about the bathroom fitter said he wasn't going to replace the ancient pipes in the bathroom before fitting the bathroom.....

I wouldnt of put kisses at the end. That just looks sarcastic...

 

[LPC]

I wouldnt of put kisses at the end. That just looks sarcastic...

hahaha. Not sure if serious

But yeah, that's just to block out my name.....

 

[missplumb]

well done, for keeping your cool

 

[Rickster123]

hahaha. Not sure if serious

But yeah, that's just to block out my name.....

Haha I'm never serious mate. Hope you get it resolved you did well remaining calm.

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

hahaha. Not sure if serious

But yeah, that's just to block out my name.....

Hes taking the Raspberry ignore him haha

 

[gasmanrob]

Get all yanky on his bum and commence legal proceedings for deformation of character and trying to besmirch your good name.

Some people are just out to cause folk a difficult life

 

[southcoastboile]

Always get a deposit!
i am having a major issue myself at the moment, worst customer I have ever dealt with, you would not believe how unreasonable he has been, owes me £2k. It's all clear now that it's all down to not paying the final bill.
i hope it all works out for you. That bathroom fitter is an absolute idiot!
Name and shame him, that's a joke

 

[Rickster123]

No just stay calm, get paid because you will get paid and move on. They can't argue with the facts. Unfortunately the world is full of *****.

 

[gasmanrob]

Makes me wonder though do you recon any of us has had one of our customers come on to the forum to get advise? Then try and bamboozle us the next day

 

[LPC]

He sent me a fairly amicable reply to the email so hopefully it can get sorted. I'm pretty stressed about it all to be fair, it's 5k i'm owed which I can't afford to lose. Most annoying thing is the jobs been done really good, nothing there i'm worried about at all. Think i'll ring the Vaillant rep regardless tomorrow and just get the cogs moving on it in case it moves any further.

Mr. Plumber/bathroom fitter will get his dues don't worry about that. I don't forgive or forget people who try and **** me over and he'll be hearing from me in one way or another.

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

I would strongly advise you sort the customer and your payment out first and once that's done have a word with the guy after, the money is much more important then him!

 

[Rickster123]

He sent me a fairly amicable reply to the email so hopefully it can get sorted. I'm pretty stressed about it all to be fair, it's 5k i'm owed which I can't afford to lose. Most annoying thing is the jobs been done really good, nothing there i'm worried about at all. Think i'll ring the Vaillant rep regardless tomorrow and just get the cogs moving on it in case it moves any further.

Mr. Plumber/bathroom fitter will get his dues don't worry about that. I don't forgive or forget people who try and **** me over and he'll be hearing from me in one way or another.

fancy a warm beer left over from Christmas?

 

[Best]

Did you ask what experience and qualifications the bathroom fitter has for heating work? That is slanderous surely? You should have asked both the customers and the bathroom idiot how come most boilers require only 22mm pipes to supply the entire house and yet this idiot says each radiator has to have 22mm to them, despite needing only a fraction of the flow.

 

[LPC]

I did explain this to them and the plumber but the plumber basically kept shouting me down and not letting me speak. My tactic was to take the high road and not come down to his level and it seems to have worked.

They've emailed Vaillant the details of the install so it should be sorted fairly quickly but like I said, i'll be asking for full payment before any more work happens at that property. It might become another sticking point but I'm not taking any chances with their poor judgement any more.

 

[deandive]

would love to see the standard of work in the bathroom, given that this guy is an absolute tool ?????

 

[smtplumbing]

my bet the bathroom fitter is doing ti in plastic

 

[rpm]

It also transpires that they rang another local engineer for advice; who told them i'm very well known in the area for an extremely high standard of work and basically corroborated every single thing i've done and said to them.
The customer didn't tell me that, the engineer actually rang me up and told me even though I don't actually know him.

Sounds like you ought to buy that man a drink and talk about staying in contact re non payers & bad customers mate.

 

[LPC]

He said (the 'plumber') it was totally un-necessary to replace 30 year old H/C pipes, soldered with Yorkshire fittings, in a bathroom in a property that was previously empty for 6 months+ because it would 'take too long and cost the customer too much'. Even though all the boards are already lifted and the pipes are right there all notched in.
Stated I could re-pipe it in under an hour with about 20 quids worth of copper. That's why I mentioned it in the email.

Me undermining his credibility and work is just the beginning for that fella

 

[rpm]

Don`t suppose this dick head offers a 24hr call service does he?

 

[LPC]

Sounds like you ought to buy that man a drink and talk about staying in contact re non payers & bad customers mate.

Yeah he's a sound bloke. Said hello to him in the merchants a few times but nothing more. Quite flattered really. Spoke to him on the phone for quite a while. Said it's probably because I look young and people instantly assume i'm 'learning' (i'm actually 31 but look about 25 but been doing heating for ~10 years). Said he used to get it quite a bit when he was younger. I liked the honesty!

 

[LPC]

Don`t suppose this dick head offers a 24hr call service does he?

haha! Like I said, this fella will rue the day he met me, don't worry.

 

[Best]

Only time I ever saw 22mm to radiators was on council housing from the 70s where the glass fronted solid fuel fires worked on gravity. So the bathroom bloke has either saw a lot of those jobs & assumed that was proper, or as has been already mentioned, been reading an old heating book.
Bet he is just a Diyer builder/plumber/bluffer type and has been a bit of a knowitall talking big and it has backfired on him.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

Man, I'm angry and i wasn't even involved.... grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

[oz-plumber]

Bas tar ds probably looking for some of your 3.5k to pay the bathroom retard.
Find out where he drinks and knock fu ck out the cant.

Absolutely love your style Tamz.

I bet Croppie checked to see if this was in the 'Arms' - just to make sure he didn't have to give you a warning.

 

[townfanjon]

What a @osser , can we start a clever 'get your own back' section to pay back guys like this.

 

[Millsy 82]

What a @osser , can we start a clever 'get your own back' section to pay back guys like this.

Not exactly clever but I'm thinking of something involving a lump hammer and knee caps.

 

[LPC]

I did speak to a sound guy at Vaillant earlier called Ian Baker who said he'd get on it and I think he may have spoken to the technical team.

The customer got an email back from Vaillant today.....

FYI - From Vaillant:

Thank you for your email.

We have looked at your email and our technical officer has also spoken to you this morning. Based on this information we believe the installer to have been thorough in his calculations and we cannot see that you will have any problems. However if you still have concerns then you need to contact the installer as Vaillant do not carry out installation work.

Regards

Vaillant Technical

My customer also apologised and admitted there has been a mixup but also did say the guy on the phone at Vaillant said the 22mm to the living room could be longer (22mm to outside living room, 2 rads off 22mm, max 15mm run about 2.5 metres!!) but i'll let that go because I can't be bothered to argue it anymore.


So now i'm thinking about how to continue. I have his paperwork, controls, trvs etc. Think i'm going to outright ask for at least 80-90% of the cash now to continue.

PS. And no mention of the outright lies from his plumber, who works for his company!!!