Rate my business plan

[Jamesjamie]

With respect jamie you are looking at this through media tinted glasses. The reality is very different.

On one hand you complain about how people are unavail cos they too busy yet in the next breath talk of your part time hours. Get real old bean.

You dont like paying yet youll expect others to pay! Get real old bean. Sensing a theme?

We see these types of unrealistic posts every week to the point we are now far less than supportive because we see you've not taken any time at all to understand the reality. All you see is that you hate your comfortable existance and a mirage of a green field called plumbing painted by imbicilic media. Get real old bean.

Totally get your point. If you go back to my original post I think I acknowledged that this has in some ways been covered before. The points I was trying to emphasise were that I felt I was in more of a unique position in terms of access to experience. Ie. My maintenance man and his gas safe registered buddy. I understand you see regular posts of people wanting to get into the trade and had I read any similar posts to mine I would have refrained from posting. But the posts I've read are people going in completely blind.

Maybe I am being unrealistic. If so your comments have given me food for thought and for that I appreciate you taking time to reply.

 

[Welder]

Maybe I am being unrealistic. If so your comments have given me food for thought and for that I appreciate you taking time to reply.

Perhaps of more relevance Jamie is that what you are currently experiencing is not everyday, not authentic, not truly representative of this industry. We have a private thread running currently where we are talking hard of the, frankly appalling way this trade is treated when without us the country would literally grind to a halt in a matter of weeks.
Just so you know, this trade is currently seen as the fall back if you fail get a job in MacDonalds in the eye of joe pubic.
That, old bean, is our reality.

 

[rpm]

No idea what a pita is...(but maybe there's a gap in the market for looking after landlords then, if what you say is true lol)

Pain in the arris mate.
Want it done now and cheap. Query everything and take forever to pay!

 

[CHRISX]

Hi all. Am new to the forum. Some of what I will be discussing has been covered in previous threads but I feel my situation is a bit more unique.

I am an individual who has worked for the civil service for the past 20 years (am just shy of 40) and am looking for a career change. In my spare time I am also a property developer and over the past 15 year have done quite nicely off renovation and have a nice little property portfolio. I am now in the position where I only have to work part-time. However I hate my job and it has always been ambition to learn a trade which would earn me a living and also give me a skill which I could use when renovating / maintaining my houses.

Gas had always interested me. I have used for the past 10 years a local guy who pretty much does all property maintenance and have become friends with him. He does everything from fit bathrooms and kitchens to full central heating fittings and repair. However whilst he's fully competent he's never bothered doing his gas safe and does the bulk of the work and then his mate who is gas safe registered comes in and checks his work over and signs it off. He's done this for years and has fitted 3 boilers for me personally which were all signed off. I use a separate gas man for my landlord certs and services and he's always said the work my guy has done is good.

Recently I've been expressing to my maintenance guy that I am unhappy in my work and would like a change of career. I would also like to work for myself, be self employed and have the flexibility to work as and when I choose. I suggested gas as an option.

He suggested to me that I go and do the training and then we could potentially do some work together with him being experienced in fitting systems and me being gas safe to sign it all off. The plan would be for me to do an intensive course, get gas safe registration and get myself a van and tools. I'd would do servicing and landlord certs to fill my time and on bigger jobs we'd go together.

I am in a unique position that I only really need to earn around £1200 per month to tick over nicely so don't really need to be bringing in loads of work. My maintenance guy has also sorted it out for me to go and potentially work with his gas safe mate who is retiring within the next few years who is willing to let me go with him if I feel I need more experience at any point.

I have found a company on Birmingham called options skills. They run an 8 week intensive course and then put you with a gas safe engineer for a period of around 6 months to do your portfolio. You then come back to the test centre and do some more work before gas safe come out and check up on work you have completed. They have guaranteed that they will work with me until I am at the point that I can work independently on gas appliances. They said it will take approximately 8 months and they are involved in the whole process and guarantee you a local place with a gas safe engineer to complete the portfolio (which I have read can be an issue).

Everything seems to be in place for me to start the ball rolling and my path into the trade looks to be reasonable. But it's a big decision to quit my job and I am aware the risks are huge. The nagging feeling I have with these intensive courses are that they seem too good to be true. I am aware of the criticisms of them and that they leave you quite inexperienced and that employers won't touch you. However I am not looking for experience as this will be something I will get once I have got qualified. And I am not looking for employment as I plan to go self employed.

Given all the negative posts on intensive course on here, given my circumstances, on this occasion would doing a intensive course actually be a good idea?

Thanks in advance for anyone taking the time to reply.

Hello Jamesjamie,

My comments are going to come across as `pedantic` but because of the serious nature of what you wrote in your first message I cannot phrase them in any other way.

You are under the completely wrong impression regarding a registered Gas Engineer / Installer being able to `Sign Off` someone else`s Gas work:

It is absolutely against the Gas Safety Regulations and the Gas Safe registration rules for a Gas Engineer / Gas Installer to sign off another persons Gas work apart from where they are officially `Supervising` a Trainee Gas Installer who is carrying out documented Gas work tasks as part of producing a `Portfolio` to complement their Training Provider`s academic and practical training.

Those `Trainee Gas Installers` have to be officially registered with a Training Provider and be registered as `In Training` with either a Gas Safe registered Gas Engineer or a Gas Training Provider Company or College.

As the Gas Safety Regulations and Gas Safe registration rules are Legally binding breaking those Regulations and Registration rules is ILLEGAL !

As Member scott_d stated it is against the Gas Safety Regulations for someone who is not Gas Safe registered to even `Hang` a Boiler on the wall let alone carry out any further Gas works related to `Installing the Boiler`.

I wonder whether You take any notice of these facts regarding your wish to become a Gas Safe registered Gas Installer and your stated plans to `Sign off` your Plumbers Gas installations ?

Chris

 

[Jamesjamie]

Hello Jamesjamie,

My comments are going to come across as `pedantic` but because of the serious nature of what you wrote in your first message I cannot phrase them in any other way.

You are under the completely wrong impression regarding a registered Gas Engineer / Installer being able to `Sign Off` someone else`s Gas work:

It is absolutely against the Gas Safety Regulations and the Gas Safe registration rules for a Gas Engineer / Gas Installer to sign off another persons Gas work apart from where they are officially `Supervising` a Trainee Gas Installer who is carrying out documented Gas work tasks as part of producing a `Portfolio` to complement their Training Provider`s academic and practical training.

Those `Trainee Gas Installers` have to be officially registered with a Training Provider and be registered as `In Training` with either a Gas Safe registered Gas Engineer or a Gas Training Provider Company or College.

As the Gas Safety Regulations and Gas Safe registration rules are Legally binding breaking those Regulations and Registration rules is ILLEGAL !

As Member scott_d stated it is against the Gas Safety Regulations for someone who is not Gas Safe registered to even `Hang` a Boiler on the wall let alone carry out any further Gas works related to `Installing the Boiler`.

I wonder whether You take any notice of these facts regarding your wish to become a Gas Safe registered Gas Installer and your stated plans to `Sign off` your Plumbers Gas installations ?

Chris

Appreciate this info Chris. This is quite enlightening to me. I had always been of the impression that if the work was done to regs and someone was willing to check it over and certify it as such then it was considered OK.

Probably more concerning is that I have mentioned this before to various training providers and no one has pointed out this not being OK.

Time the reconsider my position I think. Thanks for the info guys.

 

[Chuck]

Perhaps of more relevance Jamie is that what you are currently experiencing is not everyday, not authentic, not truly representative of this industry.

It's also illegal and hence a rather poor model to base a business on. It also means that as a landlord you're the proud owner of three illegally installed boilers. Better hope that nothing ever goes wrong with them and kills your tenants.

Sleep well.

 

[Jamesjamie]

It's also illegal and hence a rather poor model to base a business on.

These are good points.

So taking a fresh look at things if I still wanted to take a crack at it the best route would be to do the training and then go and work with the gas safe engineer we know to gain experience?

 

[Harvest Fields]

These are good points.

So taking a fresh look at things if I still wanted to take a crack at it the best route would be to do the training and then go and work with the gas safe engineer we know to gain experience?

I would find a new one. I will
probably get some backlash from this but I wouldn’t trust anyone that signs off someone else’s installs or work.

 

[Jamesjamie]

I would find a new one. I will
probably get some backlash from this but I wouldn’t trust anyone that signs off someone else’s installs or work.

I get where you are coming from but isn't that the barrier most have when trying to get into the industry? No one wants you to come with them.

I appreciate all the comments guys it's making me really question who I should be placing my trust in.

 

[Chuck]

So taking a fresh look at things if I still wanted to take a crack at it the best route would be to do the training and then go and work with the gas safe engineer we know to gain experience?

My advice would be to keep well away from someone who is making a living by 'signing-off' gas work done an unqualified person. Stick to being a property renovator/developer but start employing people who know and follow the rules.

 

[Harvest Fields]

I get where you are coming from but isn't that the barrier most have when trying to get into the industry? No one wants you to come with them.

I appreciate all the comments guys it's making me really question who I should be placing my trust in.

Your choice. But do you want to be the engineer that was trained by that other dodgy engineer, or the engineer that struggled at first but is now that awesome engineer? But like I said your choice.

 

[rpm]

Whilst I agree entirely with posts made above we all know that it goes on.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Whilst I agree entirely with posts made above we all know that it goes on.

Yet we make the conscious effort not to do it, or be a part of it.

 

[rpm]

Of course.

 

[Welder]

Personally, I feel Harvest's point about sticking with what you have demonstrated you are good at is very pertinent.

Surround yourself with a good, trusted team that you treat well and you will go from strength to strength. Do you properties up t9 a good quality focusing on issues like running costs and environmental impact and you'll build yourself a model difficult to beat today.

 

[Jamesjamie]

Your choice. But do you want to be the engineer that was trained by that other dodgy engineer, or the engineer that struggled at first but is now that awesome engineer? But like I said your choice.

What would be the ideal route for someone in my position then?

Yet we make the conscious effort not to do it, or be a part of it.

Yet we make the conscious effort not to do it, or be a part of it.

Personally, I feel Harvest's point about sticking with what you have demonstrated you are good at is very pertinent.

Surround yourself with a good, trusted team that you treat well and you will go from strength to strength. Do you properties up t9 a good quality focusing on issues like running costs and environmental impact and you'll build yourself a model difficult to beat today.

Thanks for the advice.

Not to blow my own trumpet too much but I've done well over the past 15 years starting from scratch. Over that time I have built up a decent group of tradesmen who do good quality work for me at a fair price. Obviously I've had some bad experiences and have cast a few people aside over the years but have a decent sparky, window fitter, plasterer etc. My maintenance guy has been putting bathrooms, kitchens, and doing other work for me for years now to a good standard. I feel a bit let down now to be honest that he's done work on my gas appliances and had assured me he's OK to do this as his gas safe mate always comes round and checks it over and then gives me the relevant documentation. Don't get me wrong I like a good price but not at the expense of safety. Think I need to find myself a new gas man.

 

[Rob876]

I'd say if you want to do something - do it. Take on whatever course you want to, and see where it leads, but make your own plans and keep them realistic.
I quit my long term delivery jobs last June and am going out alone doing general plumbing jobs already, if you study hard and have a plan you will get there, but I would just go for it.

 

[Jamesjamie]

I'd say if you want to do something - do it. Take on whatever course you want to, and see where it leads, but make your own plans and keep them realistic.
I quit my long term delivery jobs last June and am going out alone doing general plumbing jobs already, if you study hard and have a plan you will get there, but I would just go for it.

Thanks for the advice.

My regular gas man who I've used for years went a similar route to I am thinking. He did an intensive course then went with his dad's mate who was gas safe and got some experience with him before setting up on his own. He doesn't give the intensive training a good review in terms of gaining experience to be able to practically do the job, but he did say it gave him the basics so he was safe working with gas. He then gained the experience he needed of working on different systems whilst on the job with his dad's mate. He said he just did 6 months and then went on his own. He mainly just does services and landlord certs but I know he ticks over nicely and is very busy.

 

[Rob876]

Thanks for the advice.

My regular gas man who I've used for years went a similar route to I am thinking. He did an intensive course then went with his dad's mate who was gas safe and got some experience with him before setting up on his own. He doesn't give the intensive training a good review in terms of gaining experience to be able to practically do the job, but he did say it gave him the basics so he was safe working with gas. He then gained the experience he needed of working on different systems whilst on the job with his dad's mate. He said he just did 6 months and then went on his own. He mainly just does services and landlord certs but I know he ticks over nicely and is very busy.

If doing an intensive course make sure you start doing daily homework now, read lots of books (yes it does help a lot) and gain all the knowledge you can before you even get to the training stage, how else is one expected to do these daft courses and gain from them? It's all up to you.

 

[Jamesjamie]

If doing an intensive course make sure you start doing daily homework now, read lots of books (yes it does help a lot) and gain all the knowledge you can before you even get to the training stage, how else is one expected to do these daft courses and gain from them? It's all up to you.

I think I'd do well because I've got a general interest in learning about anything thats to do with property maintenance. I've self taught myself to do things like tiling after watching hours of YouTube videos at night whilst the Mrs is watching corrie as I've had a genuine interest in learning something and then putting it into practice the next day when working on whatever property I'm renovating. It's soul destroying doing something that you hate. Especially when you genuinely feel you could be a success at something else, only if you applied yourself.

It's time for me to pick a trade and take the time to get good at it. I've got bigger plans longer term but I want my bread and butter to be a trade.