HELP , boiler trips house electricity when turned on

[sam423]

SIME OIL BOILER 1992
DE DIETRICH BURNER 2002

When my boiler is turned on it trips out the whole house electricity supply.
i can turn down thermostat on the boiler and turn on the boiler so the light is lit up but when i turn up the stat it trips out.
i have changed the fuel control box on the burner but still same problem.
funny thing is that when i unplug everything on the burner except the fuel control box it still happens, so it cant be the solenoid/transformer/coil etc as they are all unplugged
that only leaves the boiler itself but theres only 3 simple controls on it like on/off switch,reset button and thermostat.

when i turn it on via the programmer, the zone valve moves then pump comes on then boiler light comes on but turn that stat up and lights out

Any ideas anyone??

Also if i cant fix it , is it a straight swap for another burner of a different model if the power outputs are similar or will i need to make any adjustments like airflow etc?

 

[lame plumber]

just asimple question of tracing the short to the item causing it by elimination.

 

[b.lynch plum]

Wot size braker you using and type?

 

[sam423]

just asimple question of tracing the short to the item causing it by elimination.

I have been eliminating by unplugging cables on burner and its still tripping

 

[sam423]

Wot size braker you using and type?

Dont know.awat at the mo but its been workingfine for six months.could size of breaker be causing problem now?

 

[lame plumber]

unlikely a breaker problem more likely a short just need to track it down

 

[sam423]

Will the fan and the motor be hardwired to the control box as u cant seem to unplug thosr?

 

[gassafe]

Do we not give oil DIY people the same message as DIY gas work? Or I oil not considered a risk?

 

[sam423]

who said i am DIY???????

keep your nose out.

 

[kay-jay]

Don't do oil but a mate of mine had same problem on his gas system the other day...
Turned out he had a leak and the actuator on his zone valve for the heating was full of water. Tripped the electrical whenever he turned the stat up to create demand🙂

 

[gassafe]

who said i am DIY???????

keep your nose out.

I can tell your DIY by your little keep your nose out comment at me asking...

 

[gassafe]

who said i am DIY???????

keep your nose out.

Or maybe it was when you said I have changed the control box but still not working

 

[lame plumber]

who said i am DIY???????

keep your nose out.

if you cant trace a short it would seem your not very experienced and theres no need to be rude, so as they say in Dragons den, I'm out!

 

[dancinplumba]

if you cant trace a short it would seem your not very experienced and theres no need to be rude, so as they say in Dragons den, I'm out!

Come back ya pig !!!

 

[lame plumber]

Come back ya pig !!!

You can be my pig anytime your down🙂

 

[dancinplumba]

You can be my pig anytime your down🙂

Will pop down in summer with caravan and wifey 🙂 thank you

 

[lame plumber]

I'll save a few installs for you to do the lifting🙂

 

[dancinplumba]

Am up for a bus mans holiday 🙂

 

[tamz]

who said i am DIY???????

keep your nose out.

Nice way to encourage others to help:!blank:

 

[tamz]

Never been on a bus since i learned to drive and never been in Torquwall since about a year after that when i found out how long it took to get there in a clapped out capri. Can i come too :smile:

 

[dancinplumba]

Never been on a bus since i learned to drive and never been in Torquwall since about a year after that when i found out how long it took to get there in a clapped out capri. Can i come too :smile:

If you get to mine, I will take us all down to LP's :17:

 

[tamz]

If you get to mine, I will take us all down to LP's :17:

Have you got a bus Steve :smile:

 

[dancinplumba]

Have you got a bus Steve :smile:

8 seater flying machine Lol

 

[tamz]

I'll speak to her in the morning :wink:

 

[lame plumber]

let us know when your coming, I might have some work in Ireland that week🙂

 

[Dotty]

let us know when your coming, I might have some work in Ireland that week🙂

If you do, I've got some heavy lifting you can help with!

 

[sam423]

Do we not give oil DIY people the same message as DIY gas work? Or I oil not considered a risk?

12 years gas safe me mate with 'uk energy training' :yesnod:

 

[sam423]

if ur all up for a road trip then you want to come down here to the costa brava, its baking here at the moment :shades_smile: bring that caravan

 

[b.lynch plum]

Aint you got much exp with wiring then ?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

12 years and ......................

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Steve pick me up on the way down

 

[dancinplumba]

let us know when your coming, I might have some work in Ireland that week🙂

OK, Tamz, Stan and I will come with you 🙂

 

[dancinplumba]

ADMIN, can you post LP's Address please ?? 🙂 need to know where I am going 🙂

 

[sam423]

12 years and ......................

........happy haha.

 

[Dotty]

ADMIN, can you post LP's Address please ?? 🙂 need to know where I am going 🙂

Tiddy Oggy Land.
South West England.

In mind of a Tiddy Oggy now. Can you still get them down there LP? Ex wife's father was from Combe Martin.

 

[sam423]

Aint you got much exp with wiring then ?

nah, i am only mobile home gas safe, i was just winding up that guy who reported me haha.

cant beleive how sensitive these guys can be haha

 

[Dotty]

nah, i am only mobile home gas safe, i was just winding up that guy who reported me haha.

cant beleive how sensitive these guys can be haha

No one reported you, friend. I saw your post and acted. If being concerned about DIY numpties. attempting to kill themselves is being sensitive then yeah we're sensitive. And we can all look ourselves in the face and sleep soundly at night.

You will not be offensive in these forums. I will not stand for it.

 

[dancinplumba]

Tiddy Oggy Land.
South West England.

In mind of a Tiddy Oggy now. Can you still get them down there LP? Ex wife's father was from Combe Martin.

Aah...went there once, got very drunk on apple juice 🙂

 

[Dotty]

Aah...went there once, got very drunk on apple juice 🙂

Fell out of the Pack of Cards quite a few times after drinking too much freshly fermented apple juice.

 

[sam423]

beautiful memories guys but can anyone actually help me on my thread?

 

[SimonG]

Yes, trace the short circuit. I take it you have taken the burner out of the boiler and checked electrodes etc? If you've been playing and haven't found it then bring in a competent sparks.

 

[sam423]

Yes, trace the short circuit. I take it you have taken the burner out of the boiler and checked electrodes etc? If you've been playing and haven't found it then bring in a competent sparks.

have had 2 engineers in to look at it but they can't figure it out but they didnt actually take the burner out.

a 2nd hand one has arrived today from ebay with the same output but different model, will it be straight swap for the engineer or will he shake his head at me like most spanish tradesmen haha?

 

[SimonG]

The boiler could have burst inside and the water level is at the electrode level. Seen that before 🙂 Or it could be a bit of burnt off baffle shorting the electrodes. Loads of reasons, shouldn't be too much of a hassle for somebody who knows what they are doing.

 

[Dannypipe]

It's a case of elimination.

You can still create a demand on the system without the boiler being switched on. That could then tell you if it's something outside of the boiler. Might be a pump, motorised valve or other component.

You then need to start checking with power off all the components. You're looking for a short circuit obvioulsy. So I would put the meter onto ohms and check all the components.

You're new burner will need to be set up and checked before it can just be bolted onto the boiler. This is a job for an oil technician.

 

[Howsie]

I wouldn't be advising anyone to remove anything combustion side...

 

[SimonG]

Are we giving out advice to non GSR's these days?

Only when it's oil 🙂

 

[lame plumber]

Tiddy Oggy Land.
South West England.

In mind of a Tiddy Oggy now. Can you still get them down there LP? Ex wife's father was from Combe Martin.

best ones in Padstow Im afraid, Pack o cards failed to get any hygeine points a while back so I stopped having sunday lunch there! Best way to meet me, is buy a kids blow up dingy, a few tinnies and try rowing to Wales, seems to happen quite a bit and the dingy always seems to be punctured by the time the owners get dumped ashore🙂

 

[sam423]

It's a case of elimination.

You can still create a demand on the system without the boiler being switched on. That could then tell you if it's something outside of the boiler. Might be a pump, motorised valve or other component.

You then need to start checking with power off all the components. You're looking for a short circuit obvioulsy. So I would put the meter onto ohms and check all the components.

You're new burner will need to be set up and checked before it can just be bolted onto the boiler. This is a job for an oil technician.[/QUOTE

checked all that mate.

programmer on
motorized valve on
pump on
boiler on
turn stat up and bang whole house off

 

[dontknowitall]

Sorry to sound obvious but if the stat isn't calling for heat then the house won't trip because nothing is being asked to work.

So, turning the stat up to call for heat might mean the stat is at fault, or the boiler, or the pump or the ... .etc

It's probably time to start isolating/bypassing items until you can isolate which item is causing the cut out. There's no shame in calling in some help - honest! I'd start with an electrician, unless you're competent with a multimeter.

 

[Bunker]

'bet the 3pv is dripping into the pump...

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Will be quicker for you to get the pro in

 

[sam423]

Valve not dripping.valve is working so is the pump

 

[sam423]

Again I have isolated everything possible except the new fuel box and it still trips

 

[dontknowitall]

Again I have isolated everything possible except the new fuel box and it still trips

Including the pump?

 

[sam423]

Including the pump?

why would i need to disconnect the pump when i know that it works?????????:banghead:

 

[Dannypipe]

why would i need to disconnect the pump when i know that it works?????????:banghead:

It could still have a fault on the wiring and still work.

 

[sam423]

It could still have a fault on the wiring and still work.

really??? but if i disconnect the pump then the boiler wouldnt fire up would it??

 

[lame plumber]

really??? but if i disconnect the pump then the boiler wouldnt fire up would it??

I think he is referring to the CH/grunfoss type pump!

 

[dontknowitall]

This ain't the first time I've wondered why I bother.

I don't pretend to know all the answers and I never said it was the pump. I was just asking whether ...

Oh never mind! My post was ignored in the first place :smile:

 

[SimonG]

This is just going round and round. Your'e not going to be able to fix it yourself. Nobody on here is in Spain to have a look. Get somebody in who knows what they are doing.

 

[Bunker]

Its must be the flux capacitor then?

 

[sam423]

OMG , WHY IS EVERYONE SO TOUCHY ON HERE??? is it that time of the month or what?:cheesy:

AGAIN I am not trying to fix it myself
AGAIN circ pump and valves fine
AGAIN have been eliminating with my engineer
AND is there a rule against uk citizens who live in spain to not be members on here? not looking to employ any of you guys anyway , just after a bit of your advice like you do on forums, its not a job center.
It gets a bit clicky on here doesnt it? and not a nice atmosphere for new members.

Thankyou again to the guys i thanked, MY ENGINEER is going to stick in the 2nd hand burner, will let you know what happens.ADIOS.

 

[dontknowitall]

Adios!!

 

[lame plumber]

This ain't the first time I've wondered why I bother.

I don't pretend to know all the answers and I never said it was the pump. I was just asking whether ...

Oh never mind! My post was ignored in the first place :smile:

did you say something🙂, whats that? anyone there?

 

[dontknowitall]

did you say something🙂, whats that? anyone there?

Moi? :smile:

 

[lame plumber]

Moi? :smile:

need to change your mouth wash, then people can talk to you face to face :29::29:


c'mon lets go to another thread, then you can get ignored there and really get a complex🙂

 

[SimonG]

Looks like it's just the good engineers on here then.

A good engineer in Spain would make a mint 🙂

 

[dontknowitall]

Looks like it's just the good engineers on here then...

I'll sign off quickly, Simon, just in case I get in the way!!

 

[Dannypipe]

I think he is referring to the CH/grunfoss type pump!

Correct. I've kind of lost interest anyway now though!

 

[sam423]

:grouphug: :crazy: :chillpill: :shades_smile:

 

[b.lynch plum]

Again I have isolated everything poss get ible except the new fuel box and it still trips

I would get a spark in and ohm out from the start check wot curve barker you got in hear all the way to the casing on the boiler and parts mate

 

[sam423]

I would get a spark in and ohm out from the start check wot curve
barker you got in hear all the way to the casing on the boiler and parts mate

Wots a curve barker?

 

[b.lynch plum]

Each braker has a curve type but can still have the same amp so so each one trips at a diffrent point in the curve EG 20amp type C curve or type B and so on. Google it if you want to know more or just go into a supplyers and ask and see if you put the right one in for start I have once or twice bin given the wrong type by newys and put it in and stuff trips out once it reaches the point

 

[on31ll]

OMG , WHY IS EVERYONE SO TOUCHY ON HERE??? is it that time of the month or what?:cheesy:

AGAIN I am not trying to fix it myself.

your not trying to fix it yourself ? but you really are ! what you planning on doing finding the problem then callin an engineer to fix it ?

 

[sam423]

funny you should say that, the house tripped out today with nothing on but the fridge.

coz of the crisis here guys are graftin for peanuts, my sparky was only charging 6 euros an hour to re wire the house :shocked:. i thought he was trying to make a bit extra on a few items so i decided to get all the gear myself from ebay which was loads cheaper, been working fine for 8 months but one of the items was a mains breaker i think (i'm crap at electrical terms) its the 1st one in the box which is a quadruple switch which he bought but then he wanted 250 euros for the 'rcd' switch, as my house is on '3 phase' i didnt know if he was ripping me off so i got a 'RCD 4 Pole 40A 30mA' for £20 new which the seller said was fine for me.
whenever the boiler tripped it tripped the quad swith and never the 'rcd'
toadoy the same happened with nothing on but the fridge.

 

[stoker122]

6 euros an hour and you still needed to supply materials because it is expensive!

 

[sam423]

read it again, he was cheap but his materials were not.250 euros for a trip switch raised a few alarms.

 

[stoker122]

My point was more about paying peanuts.
Screwed the sparks down on price and bought cheap from fleabay.
At least it lasted 8 months, what will the spark charge to put it right?

i thought he was trying to make a bit extra on a few items so i decided to get all the gear myself from ebay which was loads cheaper, been working fine for 8 months but one of the items was a mains breaker i think

 

[sam423]

errrrrrr 6 euros per hour :stupid::stupid::stupid:

 

[stoker122]

Nice concise well thought out reply, well done.

 

[b.lynch plum]

I would get ya spark or new one to check out your borad, feel you have got the wrong stuff and overloaded mate,

 

[Dannypipe]

I don't know why you're still trying to help this guy. His attitude stinks. Arrogant and stupid. Not a good combination.

 

[lame plumber]

seems that he's getting his come uppance, cheap parts now failing, bet the sparks would charge more than 6 euros an hour to go back.

 

[sam423]

I don't know why you're still trying to help this guy. His attitude stinks. Arrogant and stupid. Not a good combination.

:bigcry:



:asshole:

 

[sam423]

Pipe down danny boy, thought u lost interest? :hand:

 

[b.lynch plum]

:bigcry:



:asshole:

You do come across like you don't respect or understand wot folks on hear r trying to say to you as folks on hear just don't want you doing things wrong and want you to do it right, so you learn that cheap aint right and paying some1 to come and do jobs you don't understand so y try and brake tradsman balls by driven there price down? It cost for good workers

 

[TBServices]

If I wasn't likely to get an infraction, I'd say he was an ignorant fourletterwordbeginingwithT. A thoroughly bad apple.

Admit defeat and hire someone who actually has a clue.

 

[tamz]

Nice concise

I first read that as nice conscience and thought you must be joking.
Not if he is willing to drive a tradesmans rate down to 6€/hr (just over a fiver).
I hope the spark has more sense and more work the next time he is approached and tells the OP to fk off.

 

[stoker122]

If I wasn't likely to get an infraction, I'd say he was an ignorant fourletterwordbeginingwithT. A thoroughly bad apple.

Admit defeat and hire someone who actually has a clue.

Troll is 5 letters TB.

 

[on31ll]

i prefer another word danny ! why are you coming on the forums ? your attitude stinks mate and youve done nothing but slag others and slag the advice ! if nothing was on today except the fridge and it tripped then your whole house is goosed it shouldnt trip turning up your room stat either ! so get your electrician on 6 euros an hour to do the job properly ! while hes there get him to fit you second hand ebay parts to your new boiler ! problem solved all is happy because the fix wont cost you much ! you cheapskate !

 

[Bunker]

Not if he is willing to drive a tradesmans rate down to 6€/hr (just over a fiver).

Not wanting to play devils advocate too much, but he is in Spain and maybe €6 an hour is ok there?

 

[tamz]

6€/hr is slave labour anywhere in the western world.
People have to live and deserve to be paid a decent rate. I'd bet the OP wouldn't get up for a **** in the night for 6€
Things are going the same way here as you'll find out soon when your BP projections don't add up.

 

[on31ll]

Its a complete and utter joke ! I wouldnt want to pay sombody that ! Its not fair in places like that the poorer get poorer and the rich get richer !

 

[Dotty]

Closing this thread before anyone gets into bother.

 

[Lou]

I am updating threads. If this is not current then please visit the Oil & Solid Fuel Forum and post a new thread.

 

[simon70]

I currently have a similar emergency and since I know nothing, would be grateful for a steer. My mains supply was tripping and wouldn't stay on until I had disconnected the circuit containing my Camray 5 oil boiler.

The engineer from Southern Electricity has just been and confirmed a live-to-earthor live-to-neutral fault on the boiler, suggesting it might be caused by water ingress into the valve, pump, programmer or wiring. His resistance meter gave a 0.1 reading on the junction box in my outside boiler room, which he said should be at least 0.5 (megohms). He was not able to investigate further and suggested I call out a boiler engineer.

My boiler is serviced regularly by Emo Team Energy and on their most recent annual service visit a couple of months ago, they diagnosed a faulty oil pump which they duly replaced. Is it possible that this work - or the regular service - could have left me with a fault which could cause my power trips? I have had a couple of RCD trips since then but was able to re-set the RCD and carry on…until this week when the RCD refused to re-set until I had isolated the boiler.

The SEC engineer said that the problem could be caused by a drop or two of water gradually building up - and occasionally rectifying itself if the water dries out. If so, and I can trace it to the work done by Emo Team Energy, then they will obviously have to fix the problem FOC. But since I need to call them out to investigate, I can't be sure that their engineer will tell me the whole truth and nothing but.

Should I call in an independent engineer instead? That would possibly start a lengthy process of trying to recover his costs from Emo Team Energy, which wouldn't be ideal either.

And anyway, where do I find this superhero who not only fixes boilers but also diagnoses electrical and plumbing faults? I could be going round in circles forever - and I'm an OAP with no central heating or hot water.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[rpm]

Find a Plumber, Tiler or Electrician | Plumbing Forum | Gas Engineers Forum | Plumbing Advice - DIY and Professional

I would call them back first as doubt Emo would refund you third party costs.

 

[simon70]

I did call them - at 9am and again at 11am - but they weren't able to book an engineer out to me as they say they are snowed under with emergency work. I don't know how long it might take to get them here and, obviously, my emergency takes precedence over theirs. Hence I'm thinking I should try to find someone else who can get to me before I freeze.

 

[rpm]

Try Drayton Boilers & heating at Amen corner or CHAPS in Henley then (amongst others of course) 😉

 

[simon70]

Thanks. CHAPS aren't answering but I'll keep trying. Drayton Boilers seem to be gas specialists - they don't mention oil on their website.