Post few more photos to the right hand side whet 3 port and cylinder is
-
Are you a Gas Engineer? Join the new Gas Talk community!
Gas Engineers only CLICK HERE TO VISIT GAS TALK Forum, and CLICK HERE to Join the Gas Talk FB Community. Read more about this in THIS THREAD.
Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
View the thread, titled "New radiator in loft causing problems" which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on UK Plumbers Forums.
It seems simple enough. The plumber has made a stupid mistake, if I am picturing it right.
As you have said, the return to the cylinder is where he went wrong. That shouldn't be joined into for the rad unless you also joined the flow to the hot water flow & at least the rad would work when hot water only on & not effect the other rads.
What is happening at moment when only hot water on, is the flow is going through cylinder coil & then out through the return pipe the plumber has wrongly connected - then through the rad & into the flow he connected to the main rad circuit.
Simple! And it really just is the usual mistake - 2 connections to the main return circuit instead of just one!
As you have said, the return to the cylinder is where he went wrong. That shouldn't be joined into for the rad unless you also joined the flow to the hot water flow & at least the rad would work when hot water only on & not effect the other rads.
What is happening at moment when only hot water on, is the flow is going through cylinder coil & then out through the return pipe the plumber has wrongly connected - then through the rad & into the flow he connected to the main rad circuit.
Simple! And it really just is the usual mistake - 2 connections to the main return circuit instead of just one!
S
Stevemarch1969
Last edited by a moderator:
S
Stevemarch1969
Last edited by a moderator:
S
Stevemarch1969
Thanks for reply.
that makes perfect sense the only weird thing is the flow pipe to the loft rad does not get hot when water on, return does but is prevented from entering rad due to NRV fitted. Something is happening though cause if Trv switched off on loft rad, other rads do not get warm when HW only on. Trv on, other rads get hot.
Last edited by a moderator:
J
jase158
that pipe to right of pump, did plumber fit it? the one with white handle on it!!
S
Stevemarch1969
No that's always been there.
he only teed into ch flow and HW cylinder return.
he only teed into ch flow and HW cylinder return.
Think it is below the pump if the picture was right way up. Don't think that should be joined in there, if it is before the 3port. I am confused!
Lock shield as a bypass from the look of it......an attempt at one atleast
J
jase158
yeah it shouldn't, 3 port valves automatically close to h. water. Heating should have bypass or 1 rad with no trv on it. please close it by turning clockwise. then try it. make sure 1 rad either doesn't have trv or TRV head is taken off if they all have trvs!!
S
Stevemarch1969
pump is at top so pic needs rotating one turn quarter clockwise to be right way up.
Last edited by a moderator:
Kind of says it all! Joining to CH flow & then cylinder return won't work IMO.
Get a heating engineer to repipe the rad.
Either just use the cylinder circuit, so new rad will only work when hot water on sadly,
Or have the new radiators return pipe joined into the returns of the rad circuit somewhere if this is feasible, but NOT into the main circuit!
S
Stevemarch1969
Towel radiator in bathroom has no Trv all other rads have TRV.
So are you staying tighten the white lock shield in the pic?
So are you staying tighten the white lock shield in the pic?
J
jase158
Its a lot easier to connect into the hw return though as that's the only returns in loft, saves breaking walls etc. non return should of solved this though!! The issue is the bypass, bet it was blocked before and he moved it by cutting and soldering new fitting and caused back flow. Need to shut valve and replace with automatic bypass valve!!
None of what you have shown or have described looks or sounds right....i don't think the installer in the first place had a great deal of an idea about what they were doing tbh!!
J
jase158
yes, if this doesn't work then definetly going through rad, is the top of the radiator below the bottom of the f and e tank?
It's not a lockshield valve, I think. It looks like a wheel head Peglers terrier rad valve & as 1King55 has said, maybe a bypass.
I wouldn't turn it off, - get a heating guy to fix everything.
S
Stevemarch1969
J
jase158
And the difference between a lockshield valve and wheelhead valve are? definetly not a bypass valve.
Same valve, except a lockshield valve has a lockshield head
& a wheel head valve has a wheel head! :smile:
And yes, it definitely is not a proper bypass valve, but possibly used as a permanently bypassing valve & therefore wrong.
Last edited:
S
Stevemarch1969
I have tightened the valve with the white knob and put heating only on.
This valve sits on top of the tee the plumber has fitted into the cylinder return.
I assume this is similar to the suggestion earlier of a flow from before the 3 port so if this is open as it was surely its a flow?
This valve sits on top of the tee the plumber has fitted into the cylinder return.
I assume this is similar to the suggestion earlier of a flow from before the 3 port so if this is open as it was surely its a flow?
J
jase158
I was being sarcastic, they are the same thing and so your post no. 52 makes no sense. There is no need for it as 3 port valves close to hot water so always have a circuit, there is no completely shut on 3 port valves. so even if it is a bypass valve it isn't needed!
J
jase158
you want hot water on only to see if rads get hot when hot water only is on, don't you?
J
jase158
exactly, this is the issue, surprising that you didn't have this problem before though!!
S
Stevemarch1969
Yes just trying that now.
with ch on only all ok but no heat to loft rad. Part of pipe warm where first teed in but doesn't travel to the rad.
cylinder return is now cool since white valve shut. Was red hot all the time before..
J
jase158
on the non return valve on pipework to radiator in loft, there should be an arrow, which way is it facing?
S
Stevemarch1969
Facing away from the radiator.
With HW only on all rads incl loft rad heat up!
makes me me think there is a problem with 3 port valve but why do all rads heat up except loft rad when ch selected on programmer but all rads incl loft heat up on HW?
J
jase158
is that pipe that you just turned off getting hot?
L
lame plumber
my question is what person wants to try heating a space in their roof lunacy in todays energy saving ethos
S
Stevemarch1969
Not hot no but warm
it used to be too hot to touch but I guess that was when the white valve was open allowing hot water to go straight into the return.
it used to be too hot to touch but I guess that was when the white valve was open allowing hot water to go straight into the return.
J
jase158
must be the 3 port valve, it may of just been the head that was replaced last time, may have gone wrong again or might just be poor quality.
S
Stevemarch1969
Whole of 3 port valve was replaced. It is a plumb center own brand about 12 months old. Not sure what they are like? Was done by a plumber.
why would ch only not heat the loft rad but HW heat it? Is this part of the 3 port valve fault?
why would ch only not heat the loft rad but HW heat it? Is this part of the 3 port valve fault?
T
TBServices
The cylinder return should always be the last connection to the boiler, or you will get flow down the ch return.
J
jase158
check valve not working or wrong way round, shut rad valves on loft rad, put hot water on only if no rads get hot then its check valve. if all rads still get hot then its 3 port valve. (not sure if you already done this). if it is check valve then maybe it has been manufactured incorrectly.
S
Stevemarch1969
This may well be the case as the boiler return is 22mm pipe and cylinder is 15mm so it must joint it somewhere.
thanks for your reply.
thanks for your reply.
Official Sponsors of Plumbers Talk
Reply to the thread, titled "New radiator in loft causing problems" which is posted in UK Plumbers Forums on Plumbers Forums.
Similar plumbing topics
We recommend City Plumbing Supplies, BES, and Plumbing Superstore for all plumbing supplies.
