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- Thread starter rpm
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It's not a bad thing no and I didn't once say it was. What I did say however was to get to that you carry out murders of innocent children and other non legitimate targets. That's to be commended is it?
If Jefaz facts are right, shouldn't these things be taken into account. Yes he did great things. But does that cancel out wrong doings, the taking of women and children. I for one, think not.
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lame plumber
problem with all these situations is that it isnt that simple and unless you have lived through it your comprehension of the situation will never be the same as those who were there at the time. Jefaz hasnt been looking at the whole picture from start to finish and Mandelas greatness came through forgiveness and how he managed to get both sides to forgive all that happened without the need for imprisionment of the perpetrators on either side, then move forward and help the s african people
Sorry but if someone's guilty of harming and killing innocents, there is no redemption or forgiveness.
My opinion, like it or lump it.
Also like to add I don't know the full facts.
L
lame plumber
K
kirkgas
Why does he have to keep his feelings to himself at this time, a terrorist has died, at least he isn't being hypocritical like the politicians will be, I don't know the full history of the struggle in SA, and I know laterally Mandela was a hero to a lot of people, but like most convicted to life in jail it's easy to change and get released, Winnie Mandela was a complete nutcase and power freak while Nelson was in jail, Google Mandela United football club, and stompie macazie ( probably not spelled correctly) he was 14" abducted and killed by her henchmen at her orders,
K
kirkgas
He was also a supporter of the IRA, and was quoted as saying they should not hand in their guns until they got what they wanted, so in effect putting at risk Britons if the fight continued, ok he might have seen the IRA struggle as similar to his, as is his choice, but if that's his opinion then he isn't a man I respect, did he then also condone the treacherous acts they carried out in their name, Gerry Adams and his bunch of henchmen are trying to be all legal now, but their acts won't be forgotten either
All people are good and bad and except for the few, Hyndley, Brady etc, but when somebody dies then everybody tends to remember the good. My view is quite simplistic, I couldn't give a monkeys. It's more for the people who have benefitted or the opposite to pass their opinions. We have merely been witness to what the press want us to see.
D
Dotty
Mandela was captured, put on trial and imprisoned in 1962. He was assigned as the lowest grade of prisoner. He wasn't permitted newspapers, was allowed one monitored visit every six months and his incoming and outgoing mail was heavily censured until shortly before his release in 1990. He effectively became a 'non-person.'
He was hardly in a position to mastermind acts of terrorism.
Your move batman.
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lame plumber
my point is that you need to see the whole picture of what happened over there not look at individual incidents, no one has mentioned that innocents were shot in the back by the ruling parties police when they had peaceful demonstrations which lead to the events that followed. winnie M is not the one being discussed and a few glib one liners on here are an insult to the man and what he helped achieve for his county and the world in general. Hence why my opinion is that if you dont know at least part of the story you cant make a constructive comment about the whole history of what happened. Listing the actions of one side is an example of how polititians work day to day, theres 2 sides to every story that need to be examined.
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Ray Stafford
Coming off the immediate issues that, tbh are probably a bit emotive to be discussed while the man is still cooling in his box, I came across some fascinating stuff when I was reading up on South African history.
Try a google search on the Mfecane or the Xhosa teenage would be Joan of Arc, Nongqawuse. Or the history of the San people.
Sometimes we think that we Europeans have all the good history stories.
Try a google search on the Mfecane or the Xhosa teenage would be Joan of Arc, Nongqawuse. Or the history of the San people.
Sometimes we think that we Europeans have all the good history stories.
T
TBServices
The way I see it, there are many prominent figures throughout history, who have done bad things for the greater good.
Seems to me, that Mandela did things that yes, we can agree are not cool, but at least his motivations were sound, and he wasn't a religious nutter, which is the biggest flaw against any argument trying to compare him to Bin Laden or the IRA.
Seems to me, that Mandela did things that yes, we can agree are not cool, but at least his motivations were sound, and he wasn't a religious nutter, which is the biggest flaw against any argument trying to compare him to Bin Laden or the IRA.
Really? Because I don't condone or forgive the killing of innocents? And again for the record, I don't know if he is guilty of the aforementioned crimes.
Just for arguments sake, are you allowed drugs in prison? No, but it still goes on. It's naive to think that he had no influence from his cell.
regrds robin.
again I'm not sure of the facts.
D
Dotty
You're talking about our prisons where the namby pamby hand wringing apologists have a say.
If they were in SA you think apartheid would've rumbled on for so long?.
Not disputing MK and the ANC committed some terrible, terrible atrocities. How influential Mandela was?
Not very after 1962 I'd say.
R
Ray Stafford
I think that conditions on Robben Island, at least in the early years, were really very different to HMP Winchester.
From what I understand, his influence from prison would not have been operational. I am not sure that he would have been considered the senior man anyway - I think that Walter Sisulu would have been thought of as the most senior ANC/MK prisoner.
The terrorist acts you're referring to were in the 80's. In the early 60's the MK was still in its infancy, it was concerned with organising public unrest in the form of strikes and protests. They started arming and training themselves as guerrillas before Mandela was incarcerated but their acts were targeted at sabotaging infrastructure such as power stations, refineries and military targets. The bombing campaign you all seem to be referring to was in the 80's when a lot of civilians were killed in a similar style to the IRA bombings in the UK. Once Mandela was jailed he was no longer involved in active service or decision making. I'm not sure if any civilians were killed in the infrastructure attacks he would have been party to but, hey, you can't make an omelet without cracking a few eggs.
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