Nelson Mandela R.I.P

[bigman]

Northern Ireland will never have true peace, the loyalist terrorists colluded with the army and the ruc to kill and maim, now we find out the nationalists colluded with the Gardai to kill and maim.The sad thing is the difference is their religous beliefs which are pretty much the same thing to most outsiders

 

[TBServices]

This thread isn't about terrorism. It's about paying respect to a great man IMHO.

 

[jefaz]

He's still a political terrorist. Same as Gerry Adams and have the go ahead/masterminded the killing if innocent people. No matter what else he did those people didn't deserve to die!!
Jusy my opinion.

 

[lame plumber]

for what he achieved in a lifetime, a lot of people should be very grateful. Comparing him to Adams and their motley crew is an insult to someone like Mandella, so would it be possible to leave that out of it now please

 

[SafeGasInstall]

And please Tom explain why he is what you say ?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

for what he achieved in a lifetime, a lot of people should be very grateful. Comparing him to Adams and their motley crew is an insult to someone like Mandella, so would it be possible to leave that out of it now please

please explain what has he achieved ? I am not winding you up just interest as I am not informed what exactly he has achieved .

 

[lame plumber]

He took a country that treated anyone who wasnt white as a non person and bought equality to all! If thats not an ahchievement I dont know what is

 

[jefaz]

But he still killed numerous innocent people. Ask their families if he's a hero!?
i don't have to leave it out as it's how I feel and I'm sorry to say how it is

 

[lame plumber]

But he still killed numerous innocent people. Ask their families if he's a hero!?
i don't have to leave it out as it's how I feel and I'm sorry to say how it is

well best you keep your feelings to yourself at this time then

 

[kay-jay]

He took a country that treated anyone who wasnt white as a non person and bought equality to all! If thats not an ahchievement I dont know what is

Not really.

Depends on your notion of equality.
All the end of apartheid brought was that one couldn't segregate and marginalise black people. Didnt really achieve much in the experience of many s.africans as the white ruling class simply switched from playing the race card to adoption of an economic model which saw poor people segregated and marginalised based on opportunities or lack thereof for the low income.

The status quo was largely (and still is) maintained in townships across s.a as the poot are also black.

The underclass are simply labelled peasants and not k.......'s and n.......'s

 

[SafeGasInstall]

well best you keep your feelings to yourself at this time then

Why isn't this a free forum ? And everyone can say what they want , or not

 

[lame plumber]

One would hope that a bit of respect is due to some one like Mandella, which is sadly lacking in this free country of ours that also has children turning upto to school with no shoes or coats, according to my daughter who teaches in Hackney at the moment.

 

[jefaz]

well best you keep your feelings to yourself at this time then

Not really! When thatcher died did people not say derogatory things about her?
Bin Laden was killed and I didn't see persons quoting him online,and unfortunately that's what Mandela was,he was essentially a terrorist,the same as Bin Laden. He did turn things around after but like I say if you kill numerous innocent people you can't be redeemed in my eyes. It's my opinion,one which I'm entitled to,I'm not being racist or speaking out of turn IMHO

 

[rpm]

For the younger generation amongst us it started as the "whites" ruled the country and the "non-whites" were the scum and as such there was strict rules and the two were not allowed to mix in the same place in any shape or form. The goverment said It was simply them and us and we are better, stop and search was nothing compared to what was going on, punishment was harsh and brutal and there was no appeal as such.

Then people got together and their action was to attacked goverment buildings and establishments with minor related deaths but as always some deaths did occurr and the world started to notice. The people demonstrating were outlawed and went underground before being rounded up and arrested for treason and it all kicked off. Mandela didn`t start it he simply voiced his opinion and people listened and his name spread, he was a man that had forsight and forgiveness in him that eventually lead to the country being where it is now.

Yes this is a boiled down version but thats how it all started.

 

[jefaz]

Almost 30 years ago on the 20th of May 1983 a bomb exploded in Church Street in Pretoria, planted by the Marxist ANC terrorists, killing 19
innocent civilian people and injuring 217.


The bombs were authorized by Communist scum Oliver Tambo and Joe Slovo and had the blessing of Nelson Mandela himself.


There were applause and cheers of joy and support from all around the world for the ANC.


Sorry but the hypocrisy is sickening.


A small reminder, ANC... just a few of your own "dastardly" and "despicable" work...


1981 - 2 car bombs at Durban showrooms


1983 - Church Street Bomb (killed 19, wounded 217)


1984 - Durban car bomb (killed 5, wounded 27)


1985-1987 - At least 150 land mines on farm roads (killed 125)


1985 - Amanzimtoti shopping centre bomb (killed 5 people, including 3 children)


1986 - Magoo's Bar bomb (killed 3, wounded 69)


1986 - Newcastle Court bomb (wounded 24)


1987 - Johannesburg Court bomb (killed 3, wounded 10)


1987 - Wits command centre car bomb (killed 1, wounded 68)


1988 - Johannesburg video arcade (killed 1 unborn baby, wounded 10)


1988 - Roodepoort bank bomb (killed 4, wounded 18)


1988 - Pretoria Police housing unit, 2 bombs (wounded 3)


1988 - Magistrate's Court bomb (killed 3)


1988 - Benoni Wimpy Bar bomb (killed 1, wounded 56)


1988 - Witbank shopping centre bomb (killed 2, wounded 42)


1988 - Ellis Park Rugby Stadium car bomb (killed 2, wounded 37)


Late 1980s - numerous Wimpy Restaurant bombs (killed many, wounded many)


And people wonder why???????


Just something to think over....


Terrorism at it's most brutal

 

[jefaz]

Some of those 'minor killings'
they weren't government buildings...note the death of an unborn baby!!

 

[rpm]

Noted you started at 1981

 

[jefaz]

Noted you started at 1981

That's when I was born 🙂

 

[rpm]

Then I`ve almost got 30yrs on you :bigcry:

 

[lame plumber]

you forget why they did what they did it seems, if the chinese ran this country and whites were treated like the blacks in s africa I for one would act in the same way as Mandella. when you make your comments, you dont seem to realise the reasons and actions were born of desparation.

 

[jefaz]

No I do!!! But why kill innocent people? Why bomb arcades,restaurants and shopping centres?
Why kill innocent people out of desperation?
there should be no excuse for doing that!! Children and unborn children?? Howay man...there isn't an excuse you could even dream up that would make that sound ok to any human being!
there is no way you can phrase it in away that I would find acceptable.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

If they had problems with government why not atack government members them self ? Was not that hard back in the days "they" even took Keneddy down

 

[lame plumber]

you would be best to read into the history in a bit more detail to understand the whys and wherefores, its not as simple as a few bombs as you make out. the bbc politised version currently playing gives a slight insight into the whole picture.

 

[nicro3]

Agree with lame on this one, a great man has passed away and some are trying to belittle his effect on freeing the black majority and giving them the chance to have a say in their destiny. And just for the record heres another historical terrorist George Washington first President of the USA

 

[marvoni]

Quite a thread.

Rest in peace Mr Mandela.

 

[nicro3]

Or is majority rule in South Africa a bad thing and Mandella was wrong?

 

[jefaz]

Or is majority rule in South Africa a bad thing and Mandella was wrong?

It's not a bad thing no and I didn't once say it was. What I did say however was to get to that you carry out murders of innocent children and other non legitimate targets. That's to be commended is it?

 

[Leo21]

Agree with lame on this one, a great man has passed away and some are trying to belittle his effect on freeing the black majority and giving them the chance to have a say in their destiny. And just for the record heres another historical terrorist George Washington first President of the USA

If Jefaz facts are right, shouldn't these things be taken into account. Yes he did great things. But does that cancel out wrong doings, the taking of women and children. I for one, think not.

 

[lame plumber]

problem with all these situations is that it isnt that simple and unless you have lived through it your comprehension of the situation will never be the same as those who were there at the time. Jefaz hasnt been looking at the whole picture from start to finish and Mandelas greatness came through forgiveness and how he managed to get both sides to forgive all that happened without the need for imprisionment of the perpetrators on either side, then move forward and help the s african people

 

[SafeGasInstall]

It ain't helped them much .... They ara all in Leyton east London and not only

 

[clarky101]

So what's did Mandela exactly do... The same as FW de Clerk...the same as Gerry Adams, martin McGuiness, bin Ladin...will they get the same BBC /world news coverage as a man that ruined Simple Minds & the Specials chart careers by being released........

 

[Leo21]

problem with all these situations is that it isnt that simple and unless you have lived through it your comprehension of the situation will never be the same as those who were there at the time. Jefaz hasnt been looking at the whole picture from start to finish and Mandelas greatness came through forgiveness and how he managed to get both sides to forgive all that happened without the need for imprisionment of the perpetrators on either side, then move forward and help the s african people

Sorry but if someone's guilty of harming and killing innocents, there is no redemption or forgiveness.
My opinion, like it or lump it.
Also like to add I don't know the full facts.

 

[lame plumber]

Sorry but if someone's guilty of harming and killing innocents, there is no redemption or forgiveness.
My opinion, like it or lump it.
Also like to add I don't know the full facts.

youd do well in the klu klux clan then

 

[kirkgas]

well best you keep your feelings to yourself at this time then

Why does he have to keep his feelings to himself at this time, a terrorist has died, at least he isn't being hypocritical like the politicians will be, I don't know the full history of the struggle in SA, and I know laterally Mandela was a hero to a lot of people, but like most convicted to life in jail it's easy to change and get released, Winnie Mandela was a complete nutcase and power freak while Nelson was in jail, Google Mandela United football club, and stompie macazie ( probably not spelled correctly) he was 14" abducted and killed by her henchmen at her orders,

 

[kirkgas]

He was also a supporter of the IRA, and was quoted as saying they should not hand in their guns until they got what they wanted, so in effect putting at risk Britons if the fight continued, ok he might have seen the IRA struggle as similar to his, as is his choice, but if that's his opinion then he isn't a man I respect, did he then also condone the treacherous acts they carried out in their name, Gerry Adams and his bunch of henchmen are trying to be all legal now, but their acts won't be forgotten either