New Central heating advice

[lackingwedge]

Hi all new member here.

In the process of buying a three-storey Victorian terraced house in wolverhampton.

Currently the property is divided into four flats which i will be converting back into a single property.

Currently flat has an electric immersion heater for hot water and electric storage heaters on the walls.

We will be putting in a central heating system but unsure what type or what vendors to go for this type of property.

We have not decided 100% how many Bathrooms\Showers to have (between two and four) and whether to have.

I have not completely decided on the internal layout when we convert back into a single dwelling, however, an identical property on this terrace has four bedrooms (we plan to squeeze out a Fifth bedroom\small guest room on the first or second floor that will be pretty tiny).

The room sizes are:

Ground floor
Living Room 1 17'6'' ( 5.33m ) x 13' ( 3.96m ) front bay
Living Room 2 15'6'' ( 4.72m ) x 17'9'' ( 5.41m ) rear bay
Rear kitchen extension 38'5'' ( 8.66m ) x 10'5'' ( 3.17m )

First floor
Study 7'7'' ( 2.31m ) x 5'9''
Bedroom 1 17'11'' ( 5.46m ) x 13' ( 3.96m ) front bay
Bedroom 2 13'3'' ( 4.03m ) x 16'7'' ( 5.05m )
Bathroom

Second Floor
Bedroom 3 13'4'' ( 4.06m ) x 17'11'' ( 5.46m )
Bedroom 4 14' ( 4.26m ) x 13'1'' ( 3.98m )
Bathroom

The ground and first floor are high ceillings, whilst the second floor has lower ceilings.

What i need advice on is:

What type of heating\Hot water system required
How many rads required and what sizes
Approx budget as i will need for the hot water, rads as well as piping.

All help appreciated.

 

[Killy Bing]

Yeah....as much as we all love to help out, thats a job for the company quoting.

you can work out your own heat losses.

As for budget that again depends on are you reusing the old systems and joining them up to limp them along.

or ripping it all out and having a properly designed system put in.

once again, the company quoting for the job will do it, regardless, way too little information to help with that.

as for the heating set up i would go for a system boiler with a large unvented cylinder.

 

[lackingwedge]

Thanks for the response.

I am not expecting a consise answer. As i said, i am in the process of buying the property and just trying to work out budgets for essential pieces of work such as:

Removing stud walls
Rewiring
New Central heating system
Repair\replace windows

That way, i will know what i have left to splash out on non-essentials like:
Garden Lanscaping
New Kitchen
New Bathrooms

Again, i really want to know my options and your recommendation for a boiler\unvented cylinder seems interesting.

Is there a recommended brand that has a good mixture of cost (purchase\installation), reliability and a good support network.
My current property has a Valliant which I have had for 12 years and has not has an issue since install besides turning the screw to repressurise once a year.

A few questions:

Can the cylinder be placed anywhere, or does it need to be in the top floor.
I plan to have one bath and two to three showers. Can these all be run simultaneously off the system at a high pressure or do you recommend at least one electric shower?

 

[Ermintrude]

Fit underfloor heating on ground floor and in bathrooms.

Don't install concrete floors they will cause damp. U should use a suspended celotex sheet between joists and biscuit mix on top below floor boards.

Rads in bed rooms should be on zones to optimise heat use.


Fit a SLME cylinder so that you can fit solar at a later date.

I would install cylinder and boiler where convenient, where you had the most space. Upgrade from lead to 32mm water supply.

Insulate insulate insulate . Even between floors.

 

[Whyme]

it all depends on what you want to spend. underfloor heating has an initial cost but gains in the long term. radiators are easier to fit and there much the same (btw column rads lokk nice but are next to useless). an unvented cylinder can be put anywhere but in the middle of the house is best because the hw draw offs are shorter ie no long runs of pipe before the hot water gets to your taps ect.

 

[Killy Bing]

As per ermi. If you want multiple hot take offs your two options are an unvented cylinder or a commercial boiler!

commercial boiler wont be an option so unvented it is.

An unvented cylinder requires a good water pressure and flow rate to run.

flow rate can be increased with a larger incoming pipe, as ermi says 32mm would be ideal.

while you're renovating remove the lead incoming main and upgrade now.

pressure is dictated by the area.

pay a consultancy fee to a local heating engineer to attend to check suitability before you buy the house and have a general look at the state of the plumbing.

there is a looking for a plumber section on here.
good to use as we all give our time freely so we tend to know our stuff!!

 

[Ermintrude]

Column rads useless ? I've got about. 18kw worth upstairs in my house, they work beautifully.

They look a lot better than convectors they do require a bit more cleaning but won't ever be fitting a panel rad in any of my dwellings.

 

[Whyme]

Column rads useless ? I've got about. 18kw worth upstairs in my house, they work beautifully.

They look a lot better than convectors they do require a bit more cleaning but won't ever be fitting a panel rad in any of my dwellings.

they never work better than convectors though..

 

[TBServices]

they never work better than convectors though..

Who's to say that? As long as they're the right size for the room, they heat it up, and you're willing to pay more £££ per KW, it's down to personal choice.

Some see rads as a feature, others choose to ignore their existence.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

Be look at a budget of at least 10K + for the heating and hot water 🙂

 

[happyflyer]

Be look at a budget of at least 10K + for the heating and hot water 🙂

IDCHAPPY,

I think you might be close to the mark with the + bit, just for the heating not the rest of the plumbing, this is a big house big heat losses too,
the running costs will be high.

 

[Ermintrude]

Insulate and lots of zone valves

 

[lackingwedge]

Thanks for the advice.

A few points....
With regards to underfloor heating, is electric recommended or a water based system plumbed into the central heating system?

Also, is electric flooring enough to sufficiently heat a room or will it need to be supplemented with Rads (I am thinking of the large kitchen here). I am happy to have it in the bathrooms.

I plan to install thick carpets in all the rooms besides the kitchen and bathrooms. Is underfloor heating an option for that?

When you say zones for Rads, are you refering to TRV's and have different levels in different rooms?

I googled an SLME cylinder. How much extra does solar add to the whole project and are the gains worth it, or should i just purchase the compatible cylinder and then Solar at a later date when the costs fall?

I hear the stuff about insulation, however I have heard of issues when you over-insulate Victorian properties and condensation issues.

Thanks for the advice regarding costs. I had thought about 10K all in as worst case.

 

[Ermintrude]

Electric underfloor is only for warming tiles not heating a room.

I would install zone valves and programmers to each room or at least each cluster, master and ensuite ? This means this cluster can come on at different time and temp to other rooms it will save you in long run. Trvs are low tech the electronic trvs are a bit gimmicky too. Do it properly or just have an ash tray to burn money in.

Insulation with a vapour control is excellent. My house was built in 1802 and has 100mm of celotex and an internal vented cavity

100mm celotex in floors ( internal as well as ground floor)

150mm in pitched warm roof.

Main thing is ventilation.

You need a wholistic plan. You will need to drive this. All the trades will do their thing and you will probably be missing all sorts.

1 stop, look and plan what you want.
2 research - not from builder but books and internet

3 local building control- tell them what your planning and ask for a visit as you want to comply with building regs.

4 interview trades.

5 plan and schedule

6 check

7 get started


I would recommend you look at insulation products and literature on tinternet.

Interstitial condensation - your first google exploration

Oh solar. Yes it will be worth it depending on aspect of roof and the available area. £5k to £15k rhi grants available you should contact an mcs registered installer for this before you make any choices.

If the cylinder is accessible from roof then it can be done later ( need to run plant from cylinder to roof)

SLME is a mutil energy tank - it's the best one on the market.

 

[Irish]

Electric underfloor is only for warming tiles not heating a room.

I would install zone valves and programmers to each room or at least each cluster, master and ensuite ? This means this cluster can come on at different time and temp to other rooms it will save you in long run. Trvs are low tech the electronic trvs are a bit gimmicky too. Do it properly or just have an ash tray to burn money in.

Insulation with a vapour control is excellent. My house was built in 1802 and has 100mm of celotex and an internal vented cavity

100mm celotex in floors ( internal as well as ground floor)

150mm in pitched warm roof.

Main thing is ventilation.

You need a wholistic plan. You will need to drive this. All the trades will do their thing and you will probably be missing all sorts.

1 stop, look and plan what you want.
2 research - not from builder but books and internet

3 local building control- tell them what your planning and ask for a visit as you want to comply with building regs.

4 interview trades.

5 plan and schedule

6 check

7 get started


I would recommend you look at insulation products and literature on tinternet.

Interstitial condensation - your first google exploration

Oh solar. Yes it will be worth it depending on aspect of roof and the available area. £5k to £15k rhi grants available you should contact an mcs registered installer for this before you make any choices.

If the cylinder is accessible from roof then it can be done later ( need to run plant from cylinder to roof)

SLME is a mutil energy tank - it's the best one on the market.

Nuff said!!

 

[IDCHAPPY]

IDCHAPPY,

I think you might be close to the mark with the + bit, just for the heating not the rest of the plumbing, this is a big house big heat losses too,
the running costs will be high.

Yeah, that's why i also used at least 😉

 

[Centralheatking]

Hi lackingwedge

You have landed at the best Plumbing & Heating Forum - we are all experts and like to help
and give our time for free

Simple problems are sorted out on here instantly because we are collectively very good at what we do.

To design and spec up a dev which you have asked about will involve a number of issues

1. You will need to present to us some plans inc room sizes etc
2. Then online we can only speculate
3. However you might find a really good a trusted installer on here to help in your local area
4. But take notice - my friends on UKPF are not cheap - but we are also fair

Reply with some plans etc and you might find a way fwds .........Chk

.lmereweating

Hi all new member here.

In the process of buying a three-storey Victorian terraced house in wolverhampton.

Currently the property is divided into four flats which i will be converting back into a single property.

Currently flat has an electric immersion heater for hot water and electric storage heaters on the walls.

We will be putting in a central heating system but unsure what type or what vendors to go for this type of property.

We have not decided 100% how many Bathrooms\Showers to have (between two and four) and whether to have.

I have not completely decided on the internal layout when we convert back into a single dwelling, however, an identical property on this terrace has four bedrooms (we plan to squeeze out a Fifth bedroom\small guest room on the first or second floor that will be pretty tiny).

The room sizes are:

Ground floor
Living Room 1 17'6'' ( 5.33m ) x 13' ( 3.96m ) front bay
Living Room 2 15'6'' ( 4.72m ) x 17'9'' ( 5.41m ) rear bay
Rear kitchen extension 38'5'' ( 8.66m ) x 10'5'' ( 3.17m )

First floor
Study 7'7'' ( 2.31m ) x 5'9''
Bedroom 1 17'11'' ( 5.46m ) x 13' ( 3.96m ) front bay
Bedroom 2 13'3'' ( 4.03m ) x 16'7'' ( 5.05m )
Bathroom

Second Floor
Bedroom 3 13'4'' ( 4.06m ) x 17'11'' ( 5.46m )
Bedroom 4 14' ( 4.26m ) x 13'1'' ( 3.98m )
Bathroom

The ground and first floor are high ceillings, whilst the second floor has lower ceilings.

What i need advice on is:

What type of heating\Hot water system required
How many rads required and what sizes
Approx budget as i will need for the hot water, rads as well as piping.

All help appreciated.

 

[Killy Bing]

This is looking to be quite a tasty project actually!

you could go for the entire ground floor as underfloor heating and have all the upstairs radiators from a manifold system.

This would afford you individual room controls throughout the entire house if you wished 🙂

 

[AWheating]

id say its looking alot more than 10k with bathrooms etc.......

you will want to use that 5th bedroom as a cupboard for all the kit.

 

[lackingwedge]

Thanks for the replies. I'm due to complete in the next 3 weeks. Can anyone recommend a trusted heating engineer in the Wolverhampton area?

 

[Centralheatking]

Come on you lot its a good lookin project - if he has the dosh get in there
OTHERWISE CENTRALHEATKING and my really expert team of fitters from
Liverpool will make friends with this chap ...........my email is ...........
in fact we might fly Cropp into west midland aport as ...what ur choice

CHk

 

[Gray0689]

This is looking to be quite a tasty project actually!

you could go for the entire ground floor as underfloor heating and have all the upstairs radiators from a manifold system.

This would afford you individual room controls throughout the entire house if you wished 🙂

This is the way to go
But 10k is unrealistic

You pay peanuts you get monkeys I'm afraid

 

[lackingwedge]

Anyone, I am finally completng next next week and with have my architect in to draw floorplans etc the week after. Anyone fancy coming into discuss quotes and options?

 

[lackingwedge]

This site for some reason is not allowing my to post a link of the property on rightmove (help admins??)
I will be converting from 4 flats back into a single dwelling so so some of the water and waste pipes will have to be capped (as we do not need so many kitchens and bathrooms) as well as a new central heating system.
I don't have a fixed budget, I believe that things like Windows, Roofs and Central heating are best done once and properly even if you spend a little bit more as you don't really want to be messing around with it 5-10 years down the line.

With regard to the central heating, i would be interested in a specialist discussing the options discussed in the thread and quoting me for the work.

 

[happyflyer]

See who needs to advertise when you can pick up work from this site, nice, sort the man out, if I was 30 again I would be in there.