Which boiler should I choose, Feedback appreciated!

[townfanjon]

The European boiler market is changing I was in a sales strategy meeting yesterday. No longer the customer contacts plumber and plumber specs boiler and fits it. The new model is different . Customer is driven by media chooses boiler tells fitter what they want and off you go. Worcester do this on tv AND many boiler manufacturers will only sell direct to approved fitter outfits no merchant cause they don’t make much and hold expensive inventory ..like a newsagent selling cigs. That’s the present and future ...so best boiler comes down to 4 in my opinion
not Worcester ..I will get the names and models correct and add a post later this is not driven by my profit etc but by big boy feedback ie call centre fail rate and hard intervention rates ..watch this space

What a load of bollox
My merchant sells hundereds of boilers from every manufacturer you can think of , he makes shed loads of money.
My customers ring me and pick/use my brains to pick the best boiler for them .
NONE of them would go by what some WB advert on the Tv says .

 

[Rob Foster]

What a load of bollox
My merchant sells hundereds of boilers from every manufacturer you can think of , he makes shed loads of money.
My customers ring me and pick/use my brains to pick the best boiler for them .
NONE of them would go by what some WB advert on the Tv says .

I know and understand but that really will be the future. I dont like it but thats the modern way --- your new customers will see it on tv/media like it buy it. look at car ads they say zero about whats in them just the BRAND - I like apple/honda/aldi and UKPF

 

[Rob Foster]

What a load of bollox
My merchant sells hundereds of boilers from every manufacturer you can think of , he makes shed loads of money.
My customers ring me and pick/use my brains to pick the best boiler for them .
NONE of them would go by what some WB advert on the Tv says .

If your merchant carrys on in this way then they will have a problem
w/b etc are cutting out the merchants and going direct. There will NEVER be any substitute for advice over the counter. but B&Q are stuffed screwfix tool station with a number based buy it approach are creaming it - and then local small plumb merchants will also win with the hard advice ...............I dont want to argue but just tell it how it has been told to me ...........and now me on to you end of

 

[townfanjon]

If your merchant carrys on in this way then they will have a problem
w/b etc are cutting out the merchants and going direct. There will NEVER be any substitute for advice over the counter. but B&Q are stuffed screwfix tool station with a number based buy it approach are creaming it - and then local small plumb merchants will also win with the hard advice ....I dont want to argue but just tell it how it has been told to me ..and now me on to you end of

I think you are blinkered by WB , I honestly cant see the other manufacturer's going that way , although I admit they will be watching it .
The boxt system may work for a customer that has recently moved into a house in a new area and doesn’t know a heating engineer. However most houseowners have or know a plumber/heating engineer and will always go straight to them for advice . Never in a million years will I walk into one of my customers homes and see a Wooooster stuck on a wall fitted by Boxt . Huddersfield Town will win the european cup first .

 

[Roy Tucker]

..and the Pro Max store weighs 125kg so plenty of airbags required to pop it through the hatch or half a Shaun. Seriously what's the output l/m of the Pro Max as I can't find it in the regular lit.

To the OP, are the houses on the estate the same size as yours with at least three HW outlets? If you're friendly with an owner of a similar house with a combi conversion see if you can test it as it's rare that anyone ever admits to spending that much money and then being disappointed with their decision. To run a combi of the size you are considering you need the gas feed to be sufficiently large enough with enough pressure to supply it otherwise it's a waste of money. Lastly and repeatedly you have three HW outlets and the combi you're suggesting will be able to provide around 15l/m (not verified) barely enough for 1 1/2 HW outlets run simultaneously. As suggested if you're determined to make the conversion to save space irrespective of it'a ability to supply HW then you should consider a combi with a built in store.

I have lived on the estate since 2001 and have fitted many of the kitchens, on-suites, wetrooms and bathrooms here so I know them well, the ones who have had the combi boilers fitted are over the moon and say it has saved them loads of money and has never caused them any issues, my next door neighbour had a Valiant and has had the most issues out of all of them, it appears has though most of the estate is now rid of the old Potterton system and looking at the 28mm pipes going to loft spaces they all seem to be relocating to roof space.
My loft isnt your average loft as I use it for many things daily.
Looking at the other comments and recommendations towards Vissemann I have checked out the various models and Vitodens 111-W sounds like a suitable model but I am concerned at the reviews and feedback left on trustpiot and reviews.com and the fact we are not in the city access to suitable authorised engineers could cause concern.
I feel like I have opened up a big can of worms and my OCD is gone into over drive :-(

 

[Rob Foster]

I think you are blinkered by WB , I honestly cant see the other manufacturer's going that way , although I admit they will be watching it .
The boxt system may work for a customer that has recently moved into a house in a new area and doesn’t know a heating engineer. However most houseowners have or know a plumber/heating engineer and will always go straight to them for advice . Never in a million years will I walk into one of my customers homes and see a Wooooster stuck on a wall fitted by Boxt . Huddersfield Town will win the european cup first .

I agree with your comments we started out in the 1980's but its not just boxt they are all going down this route. dont forget that the hard intervention figures will be available so what we think wont matter.

on a separate matter - your demise was false news I am glad - but you mentioned Bradford on Avon ? am I right ? pm me if thats correct some of MY loons not that numpty still cnsume cider around trowbridge road etc regards Rob Foster

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I have lived on the estate since 2001 and have fitted many of the kitchens, on-suites, wetrooms and bathrooms here so I know them well, the ones who have had the combi boilers fitted are over the moon and say it has saved them loads of money and has never caused them any issues, my next door neighbour had a Valiant and has had the most issues out of all of them, it appears has though most of the estate is now rid of the old Potterton system and looking at the 28mm pipes going to loft spaces they all seem to be relocating to roof space.
My loft isnt your average loft as I use it for many things daily.
Looking at the other comments and recommendations towards Vissemann I have checked out the various models and Vitodens 111-W sounds like a suitable model but I am concerned at the reviews and feedback left on trustpiot and reviews.com and the fact we are not in the city access to suitable authorised engineers could cause concern.
I feel like I have opened up a big can of worms and my OCD is gone into over drive :-(

have you check there arnt any viessmann approved engys by you

 

[Roy Tucker]

What a load of bollox
My merchant sells hundereds of boilers from every manufacturer you can think of , he makes shed loads of money.
My customers ring me and pick/use my brains to pick the best boiler for them .
NONE of them would go by what some WB advert on the Tv says .

Well since the media and TV adverts have been promoting the cheaper online sellers such as Victoria Plumbing, Soak.com, Better Bathrooms etc my sales have been smashed, I turn up now and get told I want you to price for fitting my bathroom or kitchen, "it's all in the garage", so many people are brain washed by the media business is difficult and profit opportunities are becoming very difficult, I have almost become just an installer only.
This is also the case for most kitchens I do and I agree, the media is pushing boilers for certain manufactures, things are changing rapidly and no longer are we able to advise, design and supply all as part of the deal returning a decent price and profit! Very frustrating.

For me I am looking at the most sensible solution and prefer to pay more to get the right product to do the job, I do not want a system that's going to cause grief and constantly breakdown.
My business slogan is "Get it right the first time" every bit of effort invested now should hopefully ensure the right decision will be made going forward. Thanks again everyone, I really do appreciate it and will certainly make my final decision more difficult.

 

[Rob Foster]

I have lived on the estate since 2001 and have fitted many of the kitchens, on-suites, wetrooms and bathrooms here so I know them well, the ones who have had the combi boilers fitted are over the moon and say it has saved them loads of money and has never caused them any issues, my next door neighbour had a Valiant and has had the most issues out of all of them, it appears has though most of the estate is now rid of the old Potterton system and looking at the 28mm pipes going to loft spaces they all seem to be relocating to roof space.
My loft isnt your average loft as I use it for many things daily.
Looking at the other comments and recommendations towards Vissemann I have checked out the various models and Vitodens 111-W sounds like a suitable model but I am concerned at the reviews and feedback left on trustpiot and reviews.com and the fact we are not in the city access to suitable authorised engineers could cause concern.
I feel like I have opened up a big can of worms and my OCD is gone into over drive :-(

HEY Roy dont worry, your OCD is fine. on here are plenty of fine engineers and installers who actually care about the job . otherwise we would not be on here. our advice is always based on our singular opinion- we are mostly self employed. you are fine asking the question - what the answer is ? local outfit or big boys ! local outfit all day long but with a pan euro product and a big warantee taken out with a national insurer after one year if you think the installer will last that long - cruel but insolvency happens let us know how you get on with it and what you decide to do and why - i am most intrested Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[townfanjon]

I agree with your comments we started out in the 1980's but its not just boxt they are all going down this route. dont forget that the hard intervention figures will be available so what we think wont matter.

on a separate matter - your demise was false news I am glad - but you mentioned Bradford on Avon ? am I right ? pm me if thats correct some of MY loons not that numpty still cnsume cider around trowbridge road etc regards Rob Foster

You cant use the word Bradford in the same sentence as Huddersfield Town .
Who else is going down the Boxt route ?

 

[Rob Foster]

You cant use the word Bradford in the same sentence as Huddersfield Town .
Who else is going down the Boxt route ?

I said bradford on avon wiltshire ! not bradford in gods second best county but where the cider heads my mates hang out at the '2 pigs' eg once owned by 2 policemen and the 'brains surgery' now flats.

This boxt route to market is w/b but here are many others on the way I will ask ian on Monday which 4 are nearest to getting it on soon - u see I am the designer /inventor but sometimes have to attend these things smile do my bit and look out of the window while they witter on - friday was more fun because there were some hard hitters there (for me) but then they do what big boys do - space out the market for the future and thats what I listened to and put up on here its no secret but now you all will know rob foster

 

[Harvest Fields]

Well since the media and TV adverts have been promoting the cheaper online sellers such as Victoria Plumbing, Soak.com, Better Bathrooms etc my sales have been smashed, I turn up now and get told I want you to price for fitting my bathroom or kitchen, "it's all in the garage", so many people are brain washed by the media business is difficult and profit opportunities are becoming very difficult, I have almost become just an installer only.
This is also the case for most kitchens I do and I agree, the media is pushing boilers for certain manufactures, things are changing rapidly and no longer are we able to advise, design and supply all as part of the deal returning a decent price and profit! Very frustrating.

For me I am looking at the most sensible solution and prefer to pay more to get the right product to do the job, I do not want a system that's going to cause grief and constantly breakdown.
My business slogan is "Get it right the first time" every bit of effort invested now should hopefully ensure the right decision will be made going forward. Thanks again everyone, I really do appreciate it and will certainly make my final decision more difficult.

My price would double if I didn’t supply

 

[Rob Foster]

My price would double if I didn’t supply

and thats fine if your price is competative with the others then its your job . I expect smaller operators who are not vat reg will do well as the customer will absorb the vat on the the bits and 20% less on labour is a winner all day long happy days

 

[gmartine]

I have lived on the estate since 2001 and have fitted many of the kitchens, on-suites, wetrooms and bathrooms here so I know them well, the ones who have had the combi boilers fitted are over the moon and say it has saved them loads of money and has never caused them any issues, my next door neighbour had a Valiant and has had the most issues out of all of them, it appears has though most of the estate is now rid of the old Potterton system and looking at the 28mm pipes going to loft spaces they all seem to be relocating to roof space.
My loft isnt your average loft as I use it for many things daily.
Looking at the other comments and recommendations towards Vissemann I have checked out the various models and Vitodens 111-W sounds like a suitable model but I am concerned at the reviews and feedback left on trustpiot and reviews.com and the fact we are not in the city access to suitable authorised engineers could cause concern.
I feel like I have opened up a big can of worms and my OCD is gone into over drive :-(

In any of your responses you haven't once mentioned your HW demand which should actually be the most crucial aspect of your boiler/systems specification. If it it's of no concern or you live alone or there aren't many residents then get a combi. As I said go around to a willing neighbour and rather than take their word for it open two or three outlets for yourself and if the results are satisfactory you have your answer.

 

[Rob Foster]

In any of your responses you haven't once mentioned your HW demand which should actually be the most crucial aspect of your boiler/systems specification. If it it's of no concern or you live alone or there aren't many residents then get a combi. As I said go around to a willing neighbour and rather than take their word for it open two or three outlets for yourself and if the results are satisfactory you have your answer.

I thought that that given all the responses on UKPF about 'which boiler' then this basic question is mandatory. ok so if you get less than about 1.5 bar at around 10 litres per min from mains tap then a combi is useless for more than 1 bath bog and kitchen and as you say see what the area delivery is like at peak demand - when al the girls are washing their hair in the morning and boys are showering or put a booster in and steal your neighbours water like many have done. After that then its what boiler. Rob Foster

 

[gmartine]

Touchy aren't we, Rob Foster "CentralHeatingKing" ?

See the right section for advertising your company, tradename or services, inappropriate on an open forum and not the first time.

I will get the names and models correct and add a post later this is not driven by my profit etc but by big boy feedback ie call centre fail rate and hard intervention rates ..watch this space

Still waiting, 7hrs later....

 

[Rob Foster]

Touchy aren't we, Rob Foster "CentralHeatingKing" ?

See the right section for advertising your company, tradename or services, inappropriate on an open forum and not the first time.



Still waiting, 7hrs later..

we are advertising on UKPF next month I understand from our technical manager and Dan

 

[Roy Tucker]

In any of your responses you haven't once mentioned your HW demand which should actually be the most crucial aspect of your boiler/systems specification. If it it's of no concern or you live alone or there aren't many residents then get a combi. As I said go around to a willing neighbour and rather than take their word for it open two or three outlets for yourself and if the results are satisfactory you have your answer.

Thanks for your time and valued comments, there are three of us living in the property, we all shower individually and have never used two outlets simultaneously, the bath hasn't had any water in it for about 7 years :-(
I will take your advise and I will knock on some doors to test three systems which all have different manufactures, I will also obtain their general comments and this will enable me to conclude the exercise.

 

[king of pipes]

Look at Atag if you must go the combi route and want quality can only be supplied and fitted through a Atag install partner, I have the 27kw economiser which has built in flue heat recovery weather comp and smart control , and is very well built on hindsight I would have fitted the 39kw to get better water delivery in the winter months but hey ho only have one bathroom the 39kw will supply two outlets at the same time , but it's your choice a 4 bed I would still go with a hot water cylinder and fit that in the loft area and a wall mounted boiler if possible . Regards kop

 

[Roy Tucker]

Look at Atag if you must go the combi route and want quality can only be supplied and fitted through a Atag install partner, I have the 27kw economiser which has built in flue heat recovery weather comp and smart control , and is very well built on hindsight I would have fitted the 39kw to get better water delivery in the winter months but hey ho only have one bathroom the 39kw will supply two outlets at the same time , but it's your choice a 4 bed I would still go with a hot water cylinder and fit that in the loft area and a wall mounted boiler if possible . Regards kop

Thank You KOP, I hadn't considered the heat storage being located in the loft space which actually is a good idea, space and access not being a problem could be a good solution, I will take a look at the Atag unit and check for installers in my area.