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Simon g is the winner, insulation in outlet and the rattling was a very small bit of solder in pipe , cheers everyone
 
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Insulation, drained cylinder, took outlet off and it was sitting there. Capped vent and opened taps and sucked the crud from pipe before replacing the outlet and filling up again.
solder I drained down heating took flow and return pipes off boiler and let it run into bucket, looked in bucket and there It was,
 

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