Am I being too sensitive?? feeling a bit stressed.

[iain85]

Where in Kent are you Ash? I think that you should really consider starting to look for another job. Those rates for self employed are horrible. Sounds to me like your employer is a chancer and at the very minimum should be paying you for your overtime.
Like it's already been mentioned there is no way a fencer should out earn a gas engineer, newly qualified or not. The risk we take has to have a significant monetary value attached to it or it's just not worth doing.

You could sub to BG on servicing work ( boring to be fair) for 22 quid an appliance. When I last subbed to them during the induction I met a father and son firm where the son had literally just qualified and he was out subbing on his own.

Good luck what ever you decide. I suppose you could start by requesting minimum a pay rise to achieve parity with your other colleagues and then time and a half after 4.30pm. This should buy you time to find other employment and not fell like your being mugged off.

 

[julesverne]

Ash you need a raise. I pay my trainee 250 a week + overtime and dinners if I forget to make sarnies

 

[armyash]

That's a fair rate for say first 6 months but you can earn more as a labourer. Would be a fair rate if you was working with another fitter and him showing you everything but not to be going out on your own

PlumbersMate thanks for that, I have been down on myself thinking the boss is in the right because of my experience but like you said I don't have anyone going out with me, sure there's still plenty to learn but i'm doing the same work all by myself that if i left he would have to pay another engineer more to do the same work.

If he is happy for me to go out and work on my own then I think it's time he paid me the going rate.

 

[Killy Bing]

Ash would be a credit to any company he works for.

if i had the work workload id be asking him to work with me because frankly i wouldn't have to worry about the job one bit.

if anyone in kent needed a hand on a weekend then ash would be my suggestion.

 

[Destroyer2813]

You said that they would review your money based on a month by month basis this hasent happened so i would start the conversation of with ive been here a year now and havent had the pay review we talked about on my appointment can we organize a meeting to discuss this. Then gives you a chance to make notes of all the points you"ve mentioned to us

 

[armyash]

Ash would be a credit to any company he works for.

if i had the work workload id be asking him to work with me because frankly i wouldn't have to worry about the job one bit.

if anyone in kent needed a hand on a weekend then ash would be my suggestion.

Thanks Killy!

As you know I lack a bit of confidence at times but the willingness is there and nothing is too much.

 

[villa_tom]

Do you pay all your own fuel and van etc etc Ash?

if you do then they are taking the **** to be honest, a year down the line you should be taking home a lot more than that.

As as a self employed engineer, you need to be taking home more than direct labour engineers due to the cost involved and the risk you may not have a job tomorrow.

I had my hours cut at BG and only work 3 days a week now, and I earn just under £700 a week for three days.

I work monday to wednesday and on Thursday and Friday I go out with one of their direct labour engineers and learn more about the repair side of the job.

I dont get paid for this, but as I don't do any private work, I'd only be say at home doing nothing if I wasn't out learning, and you can't really put a price on what I've learnt in the last few weeks. I'm using what I've learnt already and have earned more on the days I'd do work, so it's working out well for me.

BG are not everyone's cup of tea, but it may be worth you having a look at what they could offer you if they take on more contractors in the future.

 

[PlumbersMate]

How comes they've cut you Tom? Surely they ain't quiet?

 

[armyash]

Do you pay all your own fuel and van etc etc Ash?

if you do then they are taking the **** to be honest, a year down the line you should be taking home a lot more than that.

As as a self employed engineer, you need to be taking home more than direct labour engineers due to the cost involved and the risk you may not have a job tomorrow.

I had my hours cut at BG and only work 3 days a week now, and I earn just under £700 a week for three days.

I work monday to wednesday and on Thursday and Friday I go out with one of their direct labour engineers and learn more about the repair side of the job.

I dont get paid for this, but as I don't do any private work, I'd only be say at home doing nothing if I wasn't out learning, and you can't really put a price on what I've learnt in the last few weeks. I'm using what I've learnt already and have earned more on the days I'd do work, so it's working out well for me.

BG are not everyone's cup of tea, but it may be worth you having a look at what they could offer you if they take on more contractors in the future.

Sounds like a good set up you have there. Earning good money on the days you work and learning on the days you dont get paid. What work are you doing when they are paying you?

They do provide van and pay fuel etc but thats the same for the other guys too - painter, labourer etc. If i was paying all that myself i'd have left long after 3 months.

 

[villa_tom]

Sounds like a good set up you have there. Earning good money on the days you work and learning on the days you dont get paid. What work are you doing when they are paying you?

They do provide van and pay fuel etc but thats the same for the other guys too - painter, labourer etc. If i was paying all that myself i'd have left long after 3 months.

I used to do serving five days a week.

Now i do a mixture of servicing and repairs and some upgrade work now, I much prefer the variety now 🙂

 

[villa_tom]

How comes they've cut you Tom? Surely they ain't quiet?

They're not quiet, they're just not a busy as they thought it would be, mainly because we didn't have a cold winter really.

Most of the cuts are down to the fact that their direct labour engineers only work 3 days a week in the summer and they legally, because of the union, have to offer them the chance to work their days off in the summer. If they kept all the contractors doing their service programme then they wouldn't be able to offer the legal overtime.

It suits me at the minute, ive worked like a dog the past 18 months getting my house deposit together and working 3 days a week is like a mini rest for me 🙂

i have it on good authority that I'll be back on 5 days in September. Otherwise I'd have left when the cuts happened 🙂

 

[Nostrum]

It sounds like you suffer from nice guy syndrome. Willing, understanding and not a money grabber, that's perfect for an employer who won't offer you more money when he thinks you won't bring it up either and cost himself more.

I've been there myself and judging by your previous posts you suffer a little from low self confidence in some areas of the job. (No offence)

You need to value yourself so that you can sell that value to your employer. Once you've realised you are good at what you do ( and I would say you sound like you are from the posts and very interested in doing it right) you'll have the confidence to open up the conversation.

I think the wage was fair but the hours aren't, so suggest invoice him for your extra hours, or agree a higher basic. Nothing to stop you looking for other work in the mean time.

good luck with it, sounds like your worth employing so if he's sensible he will be wiling to negotiate, if he's looking at the short term pound signs he won't budge on your wage and you'll know its time to move on.

 

[stratplus]

I used to do serving five days a week.

Now i do a mixture of servicing and repairs and some upgrade work now, I much prefer the variety now 🙂

Sounds ace to me tom

 

[armyash]

It sounds like you suffer from nice guy syndrome. Willing, understanding and not a money grabber, that's perfect for an employer who won't offer you more money when he thinks you won't bring it up either and cost himself more.

I've been there myself and judging by your previous posts you suffer a little from low self confidence in some areas of the job. (No offence)

You need to value yourself so that you can sell that value to your employer. Once you've realised you are good at what you do ( and I would say you sound like you are from the posts and very interested in doing it right) you'll have the confidence to open up the conversation.

I think the wage was fair but the hours aren't, so suggest invoice him for your extra hours, or agree a higher basic. Nothing to stop you looking for other work in the mean time.

good luck with it, sounds like your worth employing so if he's sensible he will be wiling to negotiate, if he's looking at the short term pound signs he won't budge on your wage and you'll know its time to move on.

Spot on really. I'm fairly new to this type of work and it's the first time I have worked on a self employed basis so I kind of feel like I have let them dictate terms to me without questioning anything and have accepted it all.

I agree the wage is not totally unfair IF i'm working to my set hours and like you say i'm not a money grabber but now I know everybody is earning more for doing less it's got to the point where something needs to be said.

If they are not prepared to budge it will definitely be time to move on.

Thanks for your response.

 

[villa_tom]

Sounds ace to me tom

I love it mate.

I still reckon 60/70% of my work is servicing! which I don't mind as I find it quite relaxing.

The other 30/40% will be anything from breakdowns, which I'm slowly getting the hang of and some pipework jobs and rad installs, which is what I did most of my apprenticeship in so I'm pretty good on that already.

I can't complain really 🙂

 

[stratplus]

I love it mate.

I still reckon 60/70% of my work is servicing! which I don't mind as I find it quite relaxing.

The other 30/40% will be anything from breakdowns, which I'm slowly getting the hang of and some pipework jobs and rad installs, which is what I did most of my apprenticeship in so I'm pretty good on that already.

I can't complain really 🙂

Did you do much servicing before bg? Did you ever work for chn??

 

[villa_tom]

It sounds like you suffer from nice guy syndrome. Willing, understanding and not a money grabber, that's perfect for an employer who won't offer you more money when he thinks you won't bring it up either and cost himself more.

I've been there myself and judging by your previous posts you suffer a little from low self confidence in some areas of the job. (No offence)

You need to value yourself so that you can sell that value to your employer. Once you've realised you are good at what you do ( and I would say you sound like you are from the posts and very interested in doing it right) you'll have the confidence to open up the conversation.

I think the wage was fair but the hours aren't, so suggest invoice him for your extra hours, or agree a higher basic. Nothing to stop you looking for other work in the mean time.

good luck with it, sounds like your worth employing so if he's sensible he will be wiling to negotiate, if he's looking at the short term pound signs he won't budge on your wage and you'll know its time to move on.

Nice guy syndrome 🙂

sounds like what I used to have, when I first started out I used to say yes to any extra job or awkward job, mainly because I was young and too scared to say no.

It was only when I called the office one day and was taking to the chap on the phone, when overheard another girl in the office say "don't give that job to Colin, he will only moan, give it tom, he takes anything"

i got got off the phone and completed my next job and sent the next job back, as that would have taken me into overtime, which I never wanted anyway 🙂

from then on, I never took any **** off anyone and if anyone questioned anything, I would just let my safety record and my completed work quality do the taking 🙂

 

[Nostrum]

Spot on really. I'm fairly new to this type of work and it's the first time I have worked on a self employed basis so I kind of feel like I have let them dictate terms to me without questioning anything and have accepted it all.

I agree the wage is not totally unfair IF i'm working to my set hours and like you say i'm not a money grabber but now I know everybody is earning more for doing less it's got to the point where something needs to be said.

If they are not prepared to budge it will definitely be time to move on.

Thanks for your response.

I've known some pretty crap engineers get decent well paid jobs and wing it because they talk the talk, and the flip side is being good but not having confidence in yourself which immediately de-values yourself. The ideal combination is somewhere in between I guess??!

 

[villa_tom]

Did you do much servicing before bg? Did you ever work for chn??

I did three years on installs, then fell out a loft and battered my shoulder (it's ok now) and as I couldn't lift properly I went into serving and repairs. I did that for about a year then was made redundant.

After that I went to BG as a contractor and have been there nearly 4 years 🙂

i never worked for CHN mate, I don't know who they are 🙂

 

[hammers4spanner]

You can always do what I have done in the past beat your boss up with a telephone !

 

[Ermintrude]

Our new lads Are on that. They get everything provided . £10 per hour after first year which is 500 a week with a Saturday morning.

 

[armyash]

Our new lads Are on that. They get everything provided . £10 per hour after first year which is 500 a week with a Saturday morning.

Which is perfectly acceptable and I hope that it hasn't come across that i'm turning my nose up at the 340 a week that i get, it's doing how much i do while the others do less work but earn more that i have the biggest problem with along with the extra hours.

 

[helpsy]

Anyone know of any agencies for plumbers? Know loads for commercial catering but not plumbing.

Sub contract
Able Group
01702 429600
I've done alright out of them.
You'll need your certificates.
public liability of £5M

 

[stratplus]

I did three years on installs, then fell out a loft and battered my shoulder (it's ok now) and as I couldn't lift properly I went into serving and repairs. I did that for about a year then was made redundant.

After that I went to BG as a contractor and have been there nearly 4 years 🙂

i never worked for CHN mate, I don't know who they are 🙂

They were a Dudley based company. So how many services do bg give you a day?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Hi Ash

A couple of suggestions if I may?

Firstly, ask your boss for an appointment to discuss it. Explain that you know how busy he is, but that you would value 30 minutes of undisturbed time to discuss this important matter.

Secondly, completely forget what other people earn. This is all about you and the value that you bring to the firm.

Speaking as an employer, the moment any employee starts to talk to me about what their colleagues earn, I turn off completely. The prime reason is that I can't discuss it - what another employee earns is confidential to him/her, and I can't say things like "yep - you're right, it was a mistake to give Joe that payrise last year, because he really doesn't deserve it." When employees discuss pay they often don't differentiate between before/after tax, the effect of Working family tax credits, overtime and all sorts of other things so their beliefs are often wrong. But I can't break confidenitiality to put that error straight. I have employees that I think are over paid. We all make wrong judgements sometimes, and when an employer does that, since it is almost impossible to cut someones pay, the result is an overpaid employee. Assuming that they aren't terrible (just over paid) often the best solution is just to let inflation eat away at it over a few years.

Over paying an employee is an expensive mistake. But overpaying an entire workforce in order to maintain what people think are "correct" differentials in comparison to that overpaid employee is the road to bankrupcy.

In my experience, employees get very uptight if they think that something is "unfair". But I run a business to be profitable, not to conform to a third party's idea of what "fair".

Just my 2 pennoth.

 

[villa_tom]

They were a Dudley based company. So how many services do bg give you a day?

I don't have a set number mate. It all depends what appliances I have or if I have any breakdowns that day

 

[armyash]

Hi Ash

A couple of suggestions if I may?

Firstly, ask your boss for an appointment to discuss it. Explain that you know how busy he is, but that you would value 30 minutes of undisturbed time to discuss this important matter.

Secondly, completely forget what other people earn. This is all about you and the value that you bring to the firm.

Speaking as an employer, the moment any employee starts to talk to me about what their colleagues earn, I turn off completely. The prime reason is that I can't discuss it - what another employee earns is confidential to him/her, and I can't say things like "yep - you're right, it was a mistake to give Joe that payrise last year, because he really doesn't deserve it." When employees discuss pay they often don't differentiate between before/after tax, the effect of Working family tax credits, overtime and all sorts of other things so their beliefs are often wrong. But I can't break confidenitiality to put that error straight. I have employees that I think are over paid. We all make wrong judgements sometimes, and when an employer does that, since it is almost impossible to cut someones pay, the result is an overpaid employee. Assuming that they aren't terrible (just over paid) often the best solution is just to let inflation eat away at it over a few years.

Over paying an employee is an expensive mistake. But overpaying an entire workforce in order to maintain what people think are "correct" differentials in comparison to that overpaid employee is the road to bankrupcy.

In my experience, employees get very uptight if they think that something is "unfair". But I run a business to be profitable, not to conform to a third party's idea of what "fair".

Just my 2 pennoth.

Excellent info/advice thank you.

It's true I'm not exactly clued up on 'before tax' 'after tax' etc so I will put that stuff out of my mind. I will speak to them and see what agreement we can come to. I work hard like the rest of the guys on here seem to, you wont get far in the trade unless you work hard.

I will arrange a discussion with him for some point this week, I know I keep mentioning what the others earn but that's really because it's all I have to go on but I will now forget that and focus on what i do, what i bring to the company and what I feel is fair for the work and time i do.

I'm not after Pimlico wages, i'm not even after a hefty pay rise I just want to compromise enough so I don't feel so wound up.

 

[PlumbersMate]

Definitely think your first step that you need to agree on. Is extra money for the extra hours. Agree an hourly rate, and then just invoice by the hour I think this would be a fair compromise for both parties

 

[aligorgon]

why are you going back and asking for more work ... take a leaf out the other guys books

when you get a job ask how long you have for it.

most jobs they give you will have a quoted time against them say 4 hrs and your running around doing it in a hour... they will be loving it as they are getting 4 x thier moneys worth out of you.

where i work i get set hours ... 3 hrs for a commercial boiler service, 2 hrs for a gas test, 2hrs for a water heater etc ..

so for a boiler room with 3 boilers and a water heater in i will get 13 hrs to do it. i can do it in half a day and ring for more work but don't...

why because it only upset the apple cart and i have to get on with the guys i work with.



take a back seat and if you only get paid till 4.30 then don't work past it.

you are setting yourself up - if you bend over backwards once they will expect it all the time.

 

[Ermintrude]

Which is perfectly acceptable and I hope that it hasn't come across that i'm turning my nose up at the 340 a week that i get, it's doing how much i do while the others do less work but earn more that i have the biggest problem with along with the extra hours.

A very wise man told me never to worry or concern myself with what others are paid or earn. Only be concerned when I am not paid enough. It's the road to constant unhappiness. Don't discuss wages at work it's not worth it.

 

[armyash]

why are you going back and asking for more work ... take a leaf out the other guys books

when you get a job ask how long you have for it.

most jobs they give you will have a quoted time against them say 4 hrs and your running around doing it in a hour... they will be loving it as they are getting 4 x thier moneys worth out of you.

where i work i get set hours ... 3 hrs for a commercial boiler service, 2 hrs for a gas test, 2hrs for a water heater etc ..

so for a boiler room with 3 boilers and a water heater in i will get 13 hrs to do it. i can do it in half a day and ring for more work but don't...

why because it only upset the apple cart and i have to get on with the guys i work with.



take a back seat and if you only get paid till 4.30 then don't work past it.

you are setting yourself up - if you bend over backwards once they will expect it all the time.

Hi thanks for reply.

I think I have enough to go on for now. I will update later in the week.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

Tell him you were in the army and are trained to bust his bum with a kick, i expect you'll be on an easy 30K after that 😉

 

[Ermintrude]

Tell him you were in the army and are trained to take it up the bum with out so much as a kick, i expect you'll be on an easy 30K after that 😉

Ian you made a few errors.

 

[stevetheplumber]

i think your selling your self short ash this is your future at some point youll only have what youve saved over the years to live on a tenner a day over your working life is going to make a big difference from what ive heard i think your confusing nice and fair with business always go for the money in this game no one will worry about you but you

 

[rocketmanbkk]

340 a week is what i take home, so yes £68.00 a day. 8.50 an hour i think. and this hourly rate drops as soon as im working past half 4. Wednesday i worked it to 6.80 an hour and there's been other days where it's worked out less than minimum wage.

£340 a week is ok'ish but dropping to £6.80 is basic wage. That's not enough for you as you've got experience.

My advice, start up on your own. You'll get some cash work, other bits, do what you want, quiet times & busy times, learn more and have good & bad days.

Only my thoughts

Good luck whatever you decide.

Where are you based?

Rct