An under-estimated estimate!!

[secret squirrel]

It's not the customers problem that you under quoted his job, find a chippy and pay them. You go to court with this you will get spanked, estimate or not it's your mistake. Or walk away and learn by your mistake.

Not to be argumentative as we're all entitled to our own opinion, however, in your opinion what is the difference between a quote and an estimate?

If you've been badly let down by a tradesman on a job you were involved in how would you deal with it?

would you swallow the whole amount or expect the customer after negotiation to pay half or all of it?

 

[markfxy]

It's not the customers problem that you under quoted his job, find a chippy and pay them. You go to court with this you will get spanked, estimate or not it's your mistake. Or walk away and learn by your mistake.

How can he have under quoted the job when he only gave an estimate do you know the difference between an estimate and a quote? The figure for finishing the works often bears no relationship to the amount on the estimate that's why you estimate. ffs its not a fixed priced so how can it be classed as a mistake why should he lose any money over it.

 

[Thepropertyteam]

Surely we all as tradesmen can't go in and give "an estimate" specifically including other trades men's work to complete a project and then decide it was heavily underestimated..... , the customer choose you for the work based on yourself, your price and probably your friendliness, knowledge, etc etc.


I give all my customers estimates but break it down (minimum of 4 pages) to cover all "quoted for" aspects,,, I also state

Here goes.... Deep breath ..l.l
QUOTE
"The above estimate includes specifically those items strictly listed above only and does not include any additional work over and beyond that detailed in the estimate of works which is either requested by yourselves or unforeseen work that we come across during the normal course of our scheduled works as detailed above. Changing the work;
If you want to change the work, you must : confirm this in writing; and do so within 14 days, if you first tell us. We will then adjust the price if necessary.
The price will be adjusted by:
written agreement beforehand, if possible; or if not then later written agreement; or if not then
referring to any priced documents, if this applies; or if not then
a reasonable amount for the work done or goods supplied.
Every change which extra or revised work (as opposed to a change leaving something out) may mean extra costs.


Unexpected work
If unexpected work arises, we will tell you and ask how you want us to go ahead. If so, the above price adjustments will apply.


END OF QUOTE

Firstly I wonder what you guys think of this, but I did write it, and pulled some from FMB ! But in my eyes it states clearly what ; they and I am responsible for, surely "guessing " what a chippy would quote is wrong, put it this way , what if you had quoted on behalf of a plasterer, tiler and electrician too, but all were out by twice as much... ( not likely to happen i know) but the cunsotemr would need a second mortgage to pay that!!! If you pulled something apart and there is underlying
problems, or they ask for different work or more then yes, but I firmly belie the customer is right on this occasion.....

You need to sit down, work out were it's best, and maybe walk, hardest thing to do, and tbh I haven't walked yet, I should have a few months ago when customer had my pants down, BUT that is the reason I now have a four page quotation !!!! Enjoy I hope! I also don't know what was originallyy agree.... Always always get it wrote down on paper, and get a sign off sheet / customer satisfaction sheet on completion,

 

[Thepropertyteam]

You can't imagine any of us on here quoting £5k for a wet room, starting it then completely underestimating the prep work For new strengthening of all timber walls and floor and adding an extra £3k on!!! It's just not on! Bit of give and take but .........

 

[barronbathrooms]

TPT is spot on. I also have something very similar in my quotations. I always give a detailed description of works. And an itemised materials list. I think it is very important. I do all my own plastering, tiling and joinery though so only have to worry about an electrician. And he is as reliable as can be.

 

[Helpfulplumber]

I fail to see how you can under quote jobs be such large margins, you cannot hide behind estimates to hide poor judgement. Unless its really something that could not be predicted it should be in your quote. Your mate not turning up is not the customers problem, a structural defect in there house which requires rectification is there problem and they should pay.

 

[JDPlumbing]

I agree, I've paid for my mistakes but have never been let down like the op has! If I'm at fault I'd openly accept responsibility but when something beyond your control causes the dispute it must be a bitter pill to swallow...!

Yes, very bitter! All the advice on here is great. Good to know that others have been in similar situations too!

 

[JDPlumbing]

The lesson to be learned here is never get involved supplying other trades, that is until your business is large enough to cope. Next time let the customer find and supply his/her own joiner or whatever trade is required. That way you can stick to what you do best i.e plumbing and not worry about other trades.

Yep and what a lesson!! Still, you think you can trust your mates but..........

 

[JDPlumbing]

jdplumbing where are you based ? as someone on here might know a joiner.

Based in Croydon/Surrey area. If someone wants to get in touch please do. Just reluctant to pick someone from thin air who's work I am not familiar with. But might be worth a try.

 

[JDPlumbing]

Surely we all as tradesmen can't go in and give "an estimate" specifically including other trades men's work to complete a project and then decide it was heavily underestimated..... , the customer choose you for the work based on yourself, your price and probably your friendliness, knowledge, etc etc.


That's good info to put on any future estimates.

Would just point out though that the estimate I gave my customer which included the chippy's estimate wasn't off the top of my head-it was what he said he would do the job for. If he had managed to do the job for the price he gave me, then I would not have a price on my head!!! Lots of lessons learnt here!

I give all my customers estimates but break it down (minimum of 4 pages) to cover all "quoted for" aspects,,, I also state

Here goes.... Deep breath ..l.l
QUOTE
"The above estimate includes specifically those items strictly listed above only and does not include any additional work over and beyond that detailed in the estimate of works which is either requested by yourselves or unforeseen work that we come across during the normal course of our scheduled works as detailed above. Changing the work;
If you want to change the work, you must : confirm this in writing; and do so within 14 days, if you first tell us. We will then adjust the price if necessary.
The price will be adjusted by:
written agreement beforehand, if possible; or if not then later written agreement; or if not then
referring to any priced documents, if this applies; or if not then
a reasonable amount for the work done or goods supplied.
Every change which extra or revised work (as opposed to a change leaving something out) may mean extra costs.


Unexpected work
If unexpected work arises, we will tell you and ask how you want us to go ahead. If so, the above price adjustments will apply.


END OF QUOTE

Firstly I wonder what you guys think of this, but I did write it, and pulled some from FMB ! But in my eyes it states clearly what ; they and I am responsible for, surely "guessing " what a chippy would quote is wrong, put it this way , what if you had quoted on behalf of a plasterer, tiler and electrician too, but all were out by twice as much... ( not likely to happen i know) but the cunsotemr would need a second mortgage to pay that!!! If you pulled something apart and there is underlying
problems, or they ask for different work or more then yes, but I firmly belie the customer is right on this occasion.....

You need to sit down, work out were it's best, and maybe walk, hardest thing to do, and tbh I haven't walked yet, I should have a few months ago when customer had my pants down, BUT that is the reason I now have a four page quotation !!!! Enjoy I hope! I also don't know what was originallyy agree.... Always always get it wrote down on paper, and get a sign off sheet / customer satisfaction sheet on completion,

That's good info to put on any future estimates.

Would just point out though that the estimate I gave my customer which included the chippy's estimate wasn't off the top of my head-it was what he said he would do the job for. If he had managed to do the job for the price he gave me, then I would not have a price on my head!!! Lots of lessons learnt here!

 

[JDPlumbing]

I fail to see how you can under quote jobs be such large margins, you cannot hide behind estimates to hide poor judgement. Unless its really something that could not be predicted it should be in your quote. Your mate not turning up is not the customers problem, a structural defect in there house which requires rectification is there problem and they should pay.

It was an estimate not a quote, and the price was given to me by the chippy. Obviously it falls to me to rectify now, but all the prices I am getting from other chippy's are a lot higher. It was not my poor judgement for me to provide this estimate-it was my poor judgement of my so called mate!! I could not have predicted hijm being an arse!

 

[Helpfulplumber]

Splitting heirs, you provide a cost to the customer they expect you to do it for that price. I agree your pal letting you down is a pain but its defiantly not the customer fault. Estimate or quote you can't put the price up unless something has radical changed. I feel your pain used to happen to me with tilers, I now do my own tiling. Once you have these problems ask the customer if they want you to continue? It might be that they will just become a liability and not be happy no matter what you do.good luck

 

[franky]

I've been in a similar situation with a tiler, he done a runner wouldn't answer the phone etc turns out he underpriced the job and didn't want to do it.
Anyway I paid out an extra £600 just to get the job finished and out of the way, if its under a grand I would just pay to get it done move on, you'll waste more time worrying about this job when you could be earning on another job. If its over a grand keep all paperwork respond to everything though e-mails including email your ex mate with questions over pricing and what went wrong and go though the courts.

 

[Helpfulplumber]

Not to be argumentative as we're all entitled to our own opinion, however, in your opinion what is the difference between a quote and an estimate?

If you've been badly let down by a tradesman on a job you were involved in how would you deal with it?

would you swallow the whole amount or expect the customer after negotiation to pay half or all of it?

Estimate or quotation is the same you are giving a price based on your expert opinion and judgement, in truth bathroom refitts are not that hard to quote or estimate for that matter I guarantee I can do the job within the price. People price jobs so tight to get the work , I alway leave 10% contingency in my refitts to allow for the unexpected. I never go over on jobs, I have been let down but I always stay in control. Flapping and telling the customer is the last resort, plus I always put a bit on any trades to cover the risk. Better to not get the work than to get it with no margin for error

 

[mfgs]

Based in Croydon/Surrey area. If someone wants to get in touch please do. Just reluctant to pick someone from thin air who's work I am not familiar with. But might be worth a try.

What do you actually need doing? I am based near you and may know a couple people who could help. Drop me a PM if you would prefer.

 

[Cumbria Handyma]

As a last resort, turn his mains off in the street, (at night) pour a bag of postcrete into the hole add water if required and walk away.

Don't get seen.

 

[glenno1]

Hope you get sorted mate,ive been in similar position but another mate helped me out and i returned the favour,i was lucky