Angry but need some advice

[TomLane]

I was asked to install a boiler & 9 rads by a customer which I completed this week.

I did the work whilst the customer was away on holiday so I wasn't able to contact them whilst they were away should there have been any issues, which in my mind there wasn't.

I rang them yesterday to arrange a handover because as far as I was aware they were back early hours Saturday morning but turned out it was Sunday. So when I rang they had just landed & he seemed rather annoyed that I'd rang him. So rather than bothering him further I just asked him to ring me at his earliest convenience.

He did so this morning & immediately began ranting on the phone, accusing me of doing a sub standard job. Complaining that the boiler was too low, pipe work was poor, rads undersized etc etc.

I had several meetings with him at the house before he went on holiday to make sure we were both understanding about the installation which we went through in some depth. When I went in to do the work once he had gone on holiday there was marks on the wall to indicate further where he wanted the boiler & rads, which I followed as best as possible where the joists & surroundings would allow.

I said that I would be out first thing Monday morning to go through the supposed 'catalogue of errors' & explain what was what.

I am pretty confident with the quality of my work (rads sized & hung on wall, pipe work ran under floor) & the boiler was installed by a guy who does my gas work who is GSR & works for a reputable local firm. He does boiler & system replacements on a regular basis & between a team of 3 can even do it in 1 day, all be it an early start & late finish. So I am more than happy with the quality of his work.

The customer says that he was thinking of calling it quits (£1000 deposit taken for my security) & have me rip out the boiler,pipe work & rads & have it put to his requirements which I am obviously more than reluctant to do as I feel there is little wrong with the install. Short of telling the guy to do one in the politest possible way I am unsure of what to offer should it come to the point of compensating him for anything that we may agree is not satisfactory.

Sorry to bother you all with this on a Sunday but any advice would be appreciated & sometimes it's easier to rant on here. Thanks all.

 

[Barry98]

get photos if possible , then tell him your taking him to small claims court

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

i agree with bod

 

[Gray0689]

If the installation is as good as you say then don't see what his problem is
As said take pictures as evidence

 

[TomLane]

I could kick myself because I always take pictures of my work but on this occasion because we were there late on Friday I completely forgot to take any pictures.

The guys a retired BT engineer & has worked on sites apparently so he seems to think he has all the knowledge in the world. He's doing a lot of work on the house himself & calling in trades where his 'knowledge' doesn't extend.

He got an extremely good price for the job & he kept telling me he knows what he should b charged for various work that he was having done.

Whether or not he is happy with the quality of the work or not I get the feeling he is after something for nothing. Which I feel he is getting anyway with the price I gave him.

I'm just glad I've got the scrap copper & the deposit as I don't think this is going to end well.

 

[Barry98]

give him a slap

 

[Gray0689]

When face to face they normally lose a bit of bottle
When your there take in tool box and if he goes on just say right I'm disconnecting boiler now
He might back down then lol

 

[TomLane]

Bod, with my short temper I am extremely close to that this morning!

But I've learned the hard way that that won't help. (well not just yet anyway)

 

[Leo21]

Go back and do your best to explain why things are as they are. See if you can reason with the guy. It might be you can turn it round without any problems. Iff he wants it ripped out, do it load it on your van then re negotiate installation price. In your favour. Only remove with his permission, then he hasn't got a leg to stand on. Sounds to me like he's either trying it on or he's clueless. And don't agree with anything he says is wrong with the I stalation.

 

[Guest123]

What ever you do, don't lose the head! This will only count against you should it go to court.

I suggest that you and the customer agree on getting an independent heating engineer in to view the job and answer his so called concerns. I've no doubt that the job is as good as you say it is, but having a independent third party verify this, would leave the muppet without a leg to stand on.

Personally I think he's trying to pull a fast one and he doesn't have the money to pay you.

 

[Barry98]

Bod, with my short temper I am extremely close to that this morning!

But I've learned the hard way that that won't help. (well not just yet anyway)

Makes you feel a lot better though

 

[Barry98]

What ever you do, don't lose the head! .

boring sod

 

[EPH]

Get some pics, get his list of errors and work through it one by one. They might be nothing and easily fixable compared to getting him to court and paying you £10 a week.

Ive had these customers before who try and re negotiate a price after the work is completed, don't lose your head or pander to them but the less reasons they have the easier you'll get your spends.

 

[Phil]

Sounds like this guy has spent up on his holiday and come back skint, I mean why should he pay for his holiday when he can get you to pay? :bomb2:

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Makes you feel a lot better though

he could torture him reservoir dogs style with his SF2

 

[villa_tom]

The guy sounds like an absolute tool. But my advice on this would be, don't ever work in a property that isn't rented when the customer isn't there. I know it's a bit late now and I'm not having a pop but I would never work in a private property of some one who I don't know when they are not there. You're leaving yourself wide open. I really hope you get your money and everything is sorted.

Unfortunately there are a lot of toss pieces out there who are just out for what they can get. I contract during the week and I am currently having a really nasty complaint against me for something I haven't done. While I was doing the job I got on with the customer really well and had a quite a laugh. Then I as soon I left he was straight on the phone complaining that I'd broken something that I blatantly hadn't.

There are all sorts of pratts out there just waiting to screw over hardworking, honest people like ourselves and its this small minority that make working life miserable at times. They are fully aware of what they are doing and really have no regard of the consequences their actions may have on the people involved.

Unfortunatley we just have to grin and bare it, most of the rights in these cases fall on the side of the consumer even though we and the law know they are being bang out of order.

Whatever happens don't lose your rag, these people are waiting for you to do something like this, this way if its goes to court you are not only being accused of incompetency but also you are an aggressive and intimidating bloke.

Even if you have to rip out all of your work, then do it with a smile on your face, as hard as it may be.

Hopefully it gets sorted and you get your wedge, my bet would be that as soon as you go round he will back down.

All these type of people have one thing in common and its that they have no backbone whatsoever.

 

[villa_tom]

The guy sounds like an absolute tool. But my advice on this would be, don't ever work in a property that isn't rented when the customer isn't there. I know it's a bit late now and I'm not having a pop but I would never work in a private property of some one who I don't know when they are not there. You're leaving yourself wide open. I really hope you get your money and everything is sorted.

Unfortunately there are a lot of toss pieces out there who are just out for what they can get. I contract during the week and I am currently having a really nasty complaint against me for something I haven't done. While I was doing the job I got on with the customer really well and had a quite a laugh. Then I as soon I left he was straight on the phone complaining that I'd broken something that I blatantly hadn't.

There are all sorts of pratts out there just waiting to screw over hardworking, honest people like ourselves and its this small minority that make working life miserable at times. They are fully aware of what they are doing and really have no regard of the consequences their actions may have on the people involved.

Unfortunatley we just have to grin and bare it, most of the rights in these cases fall on the side of the consumer even though we and the law know they are being bang out of order.

Whatever happens don't lose your rag, these people are waiting for you to do something like this, this way if its goes to court you are not only being accused of incompetency but also you are an aggressive and intimidating bloke.

Even if you have to rip out all of your work, then do it with a smile on your face, as hard as it may be.

Hopefully it gets sorted and you get your wedge, my bet would be that as soon as you go round he will back down.

All these type of people have one thing in common and its that they have no backbone whatsoever.

Also I forgot to add these blokes have tiny penises and can't satisfy their wives, hence their need to complain and look macho 🙂

 

[Guest123]

give him a slap

I can see the court case now......
"Your Honour, I was told by a mod on the UK Plumbers Forum that it was perfectly alright to give the customer a good slap!" PMSL

 

[acecharly]

The guy sounds like an absolute tool. But my advice on this would be, don't ever work in a property that isn't rented when the customer isn't there. I know it's a bit late now and I'm not having a pop but I would never work in a private property of some one who I don't know when they are not there. You're leaving yourself wide open. I really hope you get your money and everything is sorted.
.

Excellent advice tom 110% agree never do this i ended up finding out the empty house id just fitted a system in was already sold by the custard to a housing association and they had told him there was no sale if there was no central heating. He by this time was in Ireland whee he had moved and ive not been able to get him since.

 

[TomLane]

Some very helpful advice there, thank you all, & some amusing advice too!

As tempted as I am to go round there & rip out the boiler, pipe work, rads etc & tell him go forth & multiply I know that I have to go round there & keep a cool head & not let his attitude get to me. (As extremely difficult as that will be)

I originally quoted him basic convector radiators for all rooms & post quote he changed his mind to have towel radiators in WC & bathroom & also 2 designer rads in a dining room & hallway which I reluctantly agreed to do. He acknowledged the fact he was aware that the quote will increase from these changes. He also requested a supply pipe to a gas fire be shortly re-routed, which I also reluctantly agreed to. My GSR installer did the work but said that he would only guarantee his new pipework as the old pipework could not all be visibly checked for damage etc. He did all the necessary tests & was satisfied with it in this sense, it was just the visual check that he couldn't complete.

As I'm sure we have all said before with varying situations, I know it's an extremely harsh lesson to learn but it is certainly one that I will remember for a very long time. I am compared to some of you guys, still in my very early years of my plumbing career but am thankful for all of your knowledge & wise words.

 

[acecharly]

Before doing any modification i would want paying for what i had already done.

Youre not legally allowed to rip anything out once its installed btw so beware or you could get yourself in alot of bother.

 

[TomLane]

Before doing any modification i would want paying for what i had already done.

Youre not legally allowed to rip anything out once its installed btw so beware or you could get yourself in alot of bother.

It wouldn't be a modification as such, more me taking what I'm owed. lol

But cool head, & calm mind is how I'm going to approach him initially. I'd have to take my GSR installer with me anyway to take the boiler away.

I've only had to 'actively encourage' a customer once that I would take the kit I'd installed if I wasn't paid, other times a gentle reminder or knock on the door has sufficed.

 

[Barry98]

I can see the court case now......
"Your Honour, I was told by a mod on the UK Plumbers Forum that it was perfectly alright to give the customer a good slap!" PMSL

Ill gladly stand up and say he deserved it your honour I was merely speeding up his education the thick plank

 

[Barry98]

Excellent advice tom 110% agree never do this i ended up finding out the empty house id just fitted a system in was already sold by the custard to a housing association and they had told him there was no sale if there was no central heating. He by this time was in Ireland whee he had moved and ive not been able to get him since.

Use the search function on here and putt in croppie

 

[on31ll]

my post agreeing with the other lads on here. its been said but stay calm looks so much worse than it is. you get angry but to your next protential customer your aggressive and intimidating. you see them on cowboys builders. the builder looses his rag but they spend the next 10 mins sayin how scared they where and feared for there lives.

 

[AWheating]

agree to make adjustments, when he goes out take out the system without turning the water off and close the door behind you. Fit it on your next job and let him chase you.

 

[REDSAW]

didnt go to las vegas did he?

 

[stevetheplumber]

Excellent advice tom 110% agree never do this i ended up finding out the empty house id just fitted a system in was already sold by the custard to a housing association and they had told him there was no sale if there was no central heating. He by this time was in Ireland whee he had moved and ive not been able to get him since.

that statement is ok if you only do small works in small domestic properties but a lot of people especially in the better end of the market buy refurb and then move in

 

[TomLane]

Thought you'd like an update on this mornings events.

I met the guy at his house & was immediately bombarded with verbal abuse. My brother came with me as a second pair of eyes & ears.
(I'm glad I had the foresight in this instance to record the whole conversation for future reference.)

He walked us round the house saying that each radiator was in the wrong place, undersized etc, despite him agreeing before hand where he wanted them & even marking on the wall to instruct me further. He complained that some pipework (underfloor) was unnecessary & was lashed in. He remarked at one piece in particular that he seemed to think would be damaged by carpet grippers, despite the fact that the pipe was set in to the joist below below the floorboard & as far as I'm aware the tacks used are not 3" long.

He wouldn't let us have our say & was very aggressive, despite the fact his wife was present. (Not much of a gentleman either with his language)I don't know whether he felt intimidated by the two of us hence his aggression or he was looking for a reaction.

We tried to reason with him & offer a resolution but he just wasn't interested. He even called the police which I was happy with as I said that they could mediate & perhaps we would then be able to solve the whole problem. When he phoned the police he said that we were being aggressive towards him & demanding money & using threatening behaviour. (I'm glad I recorded it all to prove otherwise).

The outcome of it all is that the police are not interested in the issue particularly (I tried to tell him this would be the case) & have advised me to telephone him tomorrow to sort out a resolution. I advised the police that he was using the boiler illegally & at his own risk as I had arranged for an independent GSR installer to certificate later today in the homeowners presence so that he could see that it had all been done properly. The police informed him of this.

So, just a waiting game till tomorrow to see what the outcome of the telephone conversation will be. If it doesn't go well I can see me having to take it to small claims court.

 

[Barry98]

where is it ill go round as an independent engineer for you

 

[Gray0689]

And I'll go round to give an independent kneecapping

 

[TomLane]

It's funny, I've spoken to a few other tradesmen mates I've got & they've all offered to go & dish out some shoe-pie. Needless to say, I've managed to avoid the temptation to give them the address!

 

[Barry98]

Don't give it them fella , but pm me it so I know not to do any work there

 

[TomLane]

From your previous responses Bod, I'm not convinced it's plumbing work you'd be doing there anyway!!

 

[Barry98]

Whatyou implying like