Angry but need some advice

[TomLane]

I was asked to install a boiler & 9 rads by a customer which I completed this week.

I did the work whilst the customer was away on holiday so I wasn't able to contact them whilst they were away should there have been any issues, which in my mind there wasn't.

I rang them yesterday to arrange a handover because as far as I was aware they were back early hours Saturday morning but turned out it was Sunday. So when I rang they had just landed & he seemed rather annoyed that I'd rang him. So rather than bothering him further I just asked him to ring me at his earliest convenience.

He did so this morning & immediately began ranting on the phone, accusing me of doing a sub standard job. Complaining that the boiler was too low, pipe work was poor, rads undersized etc etc.

I had several meetings with him at the house before he went on holiday to make sure we were both understanding about the installation which we went through in some depth. When I went in to do the work once he had gone on holiday there was marks on the wall to indicate further where he wanted the boiler & rads, which I followed as best as possible where the joists & surroundings would allow.

I said that I would be out first thing Monday morning to go through the supposed 'catalogue of errors' & explain what was what.

I am pretty confident with the quality of my work (rads sized & hung on wall, pipe work ran under floor) & the boiler was installed by a guy who does my gas work who is GSR & works for a reputable local firm. He does boiler & system replacements on a regular basis & between a team of 3 can even do it in 1 day, all be it an early start & late finish. So I am more than happy with the quality of his work.

The customer says that he was thinking of calling it quits (£1000 deposit taken for my security) & have me rip out the boiler,pipe work & rads & have it put to his requirements which I am obviously more than reluctant to do as I feel there is little wrong with the install. Short of telling the guy to do one in the politest possible way I am unsure of what to offer should it come to the point of compensating him for anything that we may agree is not satisfactory.

Sorry to bother you all with this on a Sunday but any advice would be appreciated & sometimes it's easier to rant on here. Thanks all.

 

[Barry98]

get photos if possible , then tell him your taking him to small claims court

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

i agree with bod

 

[Gray0689]

If the installation is as good as you say then don't see what his problem is
As said take pictures as evidence

 

[TomLane]

I could kick myself because I always take pictures of my work but on this occasion because we were there late on Friday I completely forgot to take any pictures.

The guys a retired BT engineer & has worked on sites apparently so he seems to think he has all the knowledge in the world. He's doing a lot of work on the house himself & calling in trades where his 'knowledge' doesn't extend.

He got an extremely good price for the job & he kept telling me he knows what he should b charged for various work that he was having done.

Whether or not he is happy with the quality of the work or not I get the feeling he is after something for nothing. Which I feel he is getting anyway with the price I gave him.

I'm just glad I've got the scrap copper & the deposit as I don't think this is going to end well.

 

[Barry98]

give him a slap

 

[Gray0689]

When face to face they normally lose a bit of bottle
When your there take in tool box and if he goes on just say right I'm disconnecting boiler now
He might back down then lol

 

[TomLane]

Bod, with my short temper I am extremely close to that this morning!

But I've learned the hard way that that won't help. (well not just yet anyway)

 

[Leo21]

Go back and do your best to explain why things are as they are. See if you can reason with the guy. It might be you can turn it round without any problems. Iff he wants it ripped out, do it load it on your van then re negotiate installation price. In your favour. Only remove with his permission, then he hasn't got a leg to stand on. Sounds to me like he's either trying it on or he's clueless. And don't agree with anything he says is wrong with the I stalation.

 

[Guest123]

What ever you do, don't lose the head! This will only count against you should it go to court.

I suggest that you and the customer agree on getting an independent heating engineer in to view the job and answer his so called concerns. I've no doubt that the job is as good as you say it is, but having a independent third party verify this, would leave the muppet without a leg to stand on.

Personally I think he's trying to pull a fast one and he doesn't have the money to pay you.

 

[Barry98]

Bod, with my short temper I am extremely close to that this morning!

But I've learned the hard way that that won't help. (well not just yet anyway)

Makes you feel a lot better though

 

[Barry98]

What ever you do, don't lose the head! .

boring sod

 

[EPH]

Get some pics, get his list of errors and work through it one by one. They might be nothing and easily fixable compared to getting him to court and paying you £10 a week.

Ive had these customers before who try and re negotiate a price after the work is completed, don't lose your head or pander to them but the less reasons they have the easier you'll get your spends.

 

[Phil]

Sounds like this guy has spent up on his holiday and come back skint, I mean why should he pay for his holiday when he can get you to pay? :bomb2:

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Makes you feel a lot better though

he could torture him reservoir dogs style with his SF2

 

[villa_tom]

The guy sounds like an absolute tool. But my advice on this would be, don't ever work in a property that isn't rented when the customer isn't there. I know it's a bit late now and I'm not having a pop but I would never work in a private property of some one who I don't know when they are not there. You're leaving yourself wide open. I really hope you get your money and everything is sorted.

Unfortunately there are a lot of toss pieces out there who are just out for what they can get. I contract during the week and I am currently having a really nasty complaint against me for something I haven't done. While I was doing the job I got on with the customer really well and had a quite a laugh. Then I as soon I left he was straight on the phone complaining that I'd broken something that I blatantly hadn't.

There are all sorts of pratts out there just waiting to screw over hardworking, honest people like ourselves and its this small minority that make working life miserable at times. They are fully aware of what they are doing and really have no regard of the consequences their actions may have on the people involved.

Unfortunatley we just have to grin and bare it, most of the rights in these cases fall on the side of the consumer even though we and the law know they are being bang out of order.

Whatever happens don't lose your rag, these people are waiting for you to do something like this, this way if its goes to court you are not only being accused of incompetency but also you are an aggressive and intimidating bloke.

Even if you have to rip out all of your work, then do it with a smile on your face, as hard as it may be.

Hopefully it gets sorted and you get your wedge, my bet would be that as soon as you go round he will back down.

All these type of people have one thing in common and its that they have no backbone whatsoever.

 

[villa_tom]

The guy sounds like an absolute tool. But my advice on this would be, don't ever work in a property that isn't rented when the customer isn't there. I know it's a bit late now and I'm not having a pop but I would never work in a private property of some one who I don't know when they are not there. You're leaving yourself wide open. I really hope you get your money and everything is sorted.

Unfortunately there are a lot of toss pieces out there who are just out for what they can get. I contract during the week and I am currently having a really nasty complaint against me for something I haven't done. While I was doing the job I got on with the customer really well and had a quite a laugh. Then I as soon I left he was straight on the phone complaining that I'd broken something that I blatantly hadn't.

There are all sorts of pratts out there just waiting to screw over hardworking, honest people like ourselves and its this small minority that make working life miserable at times. They are fully aware of what they are doing and really have no regard of the consequences their actions may have on the people involved.

Unfortunatley we just have to grin and bare it, most of the rights in these cases fall on the side of the consumer even though we and the law know they are being bang out of order.

Whatever happens don't lose your rag, these people are waiting for you to do something like this, this way if its goes to court you are not only being accused of incompetency but also you are an aggressive and intimidating bloke.

Even if you have to rip out all of your work, then do it with a smile on your face, as hard as it may be.

Hopefully it gets sorted and you get your wedge, my bet would be that as soon as you go round he will back down.

All these type of people have one thing in common and its that they have no backbone whatsoever.

Also I forgot to add these blokes have tiny penises and can't satisfy their wives, hence their need to complain and look macho 🙂

 

[Guest123]

give him a slap

I can see the court case now......
"Your Honour, I was told by a mod on the UK Plumbers Forum that it was perfectly alright to give the customer a good slap!" PMSL

 

[acecharly]

The guy sounds like an absolute tool. But my advice on this would be, don't ever work in a property that isn't rented when the customer isn't there. I know it's a bit late now and I'm not having a pop but I would never work in a private property of some one who I don't know when they are not there. You're leaving yourself wide open. I really hope you get your money and everything is sorted.
.

Excellent advice tom 110% agree never do this i ended up finding out the empty house id just fitted a system in was already sold by the custard to a housing association and they had told him there was no sale if there was no central heating. He by this time was in Ireland whee he had moved and ive not been able to get him since.

 

[TomLane]

Some very helpful advice there, thank you all, & some amusing advice too!

As tempted as I am to go round there & rip out the boiler, pipe work, rads etc & tell him go forth & multiply I know that I have to go round there & keep a cool head & not let his attitude get to me. (As extremely difficult as that will be)

I originally quoted him basic convector radiators for all rooms & post quote he changed his mind to have towel radiators in WC & bathroom & also 2 designer rads in a dining room & hallway which I reluctantly agreed to do. He acknowledged the fact he was aware that the quote will increase from these changes. He also requested a supply pipe to a gas fire be shortly re-routed, which I also reluctantly agreed to. My GSR installer did the work but said that he would only guarantee his new pipework as the old pipework could not all be visibly checked for damage etc. He did all the necessary tests & was satisfied with it in this sense, it was just the visual check that he couldn't complete.

As I'm sure we have all said before with varying situations, I know it's an extremely harsh lesson to learn but it is certainly one that I will remember for a very long time. I am compared to some of you guys, still in my very early years of my plumbing career but am thankful for all of your knowledge & wise words.

 

[acecharly]

Before doing any modification i would want paying for what i had already done.

Youre not legally allowed to rip anything out once its installed btw so beware or you could get yourself in alot of bother.

 

[TomLane]

Before doing any modification i would want paying for what i had already done.

Youre not legally allowed to rip anything out once its installed btw so beware or you could get yourself in alot of bother.

It wouldn't be a modification as such, more me taking what I'm owed. lol

But cool head, & calm mind is how I'm going to approach him initially. I'd have to take my GSR installer with me anyway to take the boiler away.

I've only had to 'actively encourage' a customer once that I would take the kit I'd installed if I wasn't paid, other times a gentle reminder or knock on the door has sufficed.

 

[Barry98]

I can see the court case now......
"Your Honour, I was told by a mod on the UK Plumbers Forum that it was perfectly alright to give the customer a good slap!" PMSL

Ill gladly stand up and say he deserved it your honour I was merely speeding up his education the thick plank

 

[Barry98]

Excellent advice tom 110% agree never do this i ended up finding out the empty house id just fitted a system in was already sold by the custard to a housing association and they had told him there was no sale if there was no central heating. He by this time was in Ireland whee he had moved and ive not been able to get him since.

Use the search function on here and putt in croppie

 

[on31ll]

my post agreeing with the other lads on here. its been said but stay calm looks so much worse than it is. you get angry but to your next protential customer your aggressive and intimidating. you see them on cowboys builders. the builder looses his rag but they spend the next 10 mins sayin how scared they where and feared for there lives.

 

[AWheating]

agree to make adjustments, when he goes out take out the system without turning the water off and close the door behind you. Fit it on your next job and let him chase you.

 

[REDSAW]

didnt go to las vegas did he?

 

[stevetheplumber]

Excellent advice tom 110% agree never do this i ended up finding out the empty house id just fitted a system in was already sold by the custard to a housing association and they had told him there was no sale if there was no central heating. He by this time was in Ireland whee he had moved and ive not been able to get him since.

that statement is ok if you only do small works in small domestic properties but a lot of people especially in the better end of the market buy refurb and then move in

 

[TomLane]

Thought you'd like an update on this mornings events.

I met the guy at his house & was immediately bombarded with verbal abuse. My brother came with me as a second pair of eyes & ears.
(I'm glad I had the foresight in this instance to record the whole conversation for future reference.)

He walked us round the house saying that each radiator was in the wrong place, undersized etc, despite him agreeing before hand where he wanted them & even marking on the wall to instruct me further. He complained that some pipework (underfloor) was unnecessary & was lashed in. He remarked at one piece in particular that he seemed to think would be damaged by carpet grippers, despite the fact that the pipe was set in to the joist below below the floorboard & as far as I'm aware the tacks used are not 3" long.

He wouldn't let us have our say & was very aggressive, despite the fact his wife was present. (Not much of a gentleman either with his language)I don't know whether he felt intimidated by the two of us hence his aggression or he was looking for a reaction.

We tried to reason with him & offer a resolution but he just wasn't interested. He even called the police which I was happy with as I said that they could mediate & perhaps we would then be able to solve the whole problem. When he phoned the police he said that we were being aggressive towards him & demanding money & using threatening behaviour. (I'm glad I recorded it all to prove otherwise).

The outcome of it all is that the police are not interested in the issue particularly (I tried to tell him this would be the case) & have advised me to telephone him tomorrow to sort out a resolution. I advised the police that he was using the boiler illegally & at his own risk as I had arranged for an independent GSR installer to certificate later today in the homeowners presence so that he could see that it had all been done properly. The police informed him of this.

So, just a waiting game till tomorrow to see what the outcome of the telephone conversation will be. If it doesn't go well I can see me having to take it to small claims court.

 

[Barry98]

where is it ill go round as an independent engineer for you

 

[Gray0689]

And I'll go round to give an independent kneecapping

 

[TomLane]

It's funny, I've spoken to a few other tradesmen mates I've got & they've all offered to go & dish out some shoe-pie. Needless to say, I've managed to avoid the temptation to give them the address!

 

[Barry98]

Don't give it them fella , but pm me it so I know not to do any work there

 

[TomLane]

From your previous responses Bod, I'm not convinced it's plumbing work you'd be doing there anyway!!

 

[Barry98]

Whatyou implying like

 

[Leo21]

It's making my blood boil reading this post. The guy is obviously trying to pull a fast one, especially with things like the rad positioning. Which make it blindingly obvious. Go back and tell him you'll do the remedial work and remove as much as you can, when he kicks of about it being removed. Tell who ever asks negotiations broke down mid way through the job and you couldn't agree on how it was to be re fitted.

 

[TomLane]

That maybe you're as keen as me to dish out some painful retribution, or you might just genuinely want to avoid working for the numpty!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Barry98]

The latter , honest guv

 

[Dotty]

Use the search function on here and putt in croppie

Aye, no worries! I'm quite in the mood to give some wingnut a good dig!

 

[TomLane]

It's making my blood boil reading this post.

Trust me, it absolutely made my blood boil when I received the phone call from him with the attitude he gave me.

I'll openly admit when I have made a mistake or when something isn't as someone requested but I can honestly say I've done all he asked.

I even tried to offer to rectify any issues he had, I would even go so far as to do the fixes for free as long as he paid me the outstanding balance, but he didn't even give me the chance to explain this.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[TomLane]

The latter , honest guv

I believe you........ Honestly....... Thousands wouldn't though!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Leo21]

Bring back stoning.

 

[TomLane]

I gave up the weed when I was at school......... I just have a few beers & a rant on here!

Oh sorry, stoning. Misread that for a second there!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[BLOD]

Sounds to me the small claims route is your best option, but first he has to give you the opportunity to rectify any faults / shoddy work etc.
I would suggest you write to him asking to detail in writing what he considers to be a problem, then work through each item one by one. It should be easy to prove if the rads are correctly sized or not, but the other stuff ie positioning of rads etc not so easy if you have nothing in writing.

If a magistrate sees you've made every effort to make ammends and be reasonable to the guy I'd say you stand a good chance of getting your money (plus costs).
And if he is seen to be unreasonable - it'll do him no favours at all.

Hope it all works out for you

 

[BLOD]

Sounds to me the small claims route is your best option, but first he has to give you the opportunity to rectify any faults / shoddy work etc.
I would suggest you write to him asking to detail in writing what he considers to be a problem, then work through each item one by one. It should be easy to prove if the rads are correctly sized or not, but the other stuff ie positioning of rads etc not so easy if you have nothing in writing.

If a magistrate sees you've made every effort to make ammends and be reasonable to the guy I'd say you stand a good chance of getting your money (plus costs).
And if he is seen to be unreasonable - it'll do him no favours at all.

Hope it all works out for you

and if the above fails then all the other suggestions are excellent advice

 

[Phil]

Go to town on the guy through the courts, make it your personal mission to ccj him up and wreck his credit rating.

I want to see this guy go down if everything you say is true.

 

[REDSAW]

after all that, you will then get £20 a month.....

then give him a slap.lol

did he leave you a key by the way?

 

[Nostrum]

Take his gas meter out, throw it in the garden, turn his water off and smash the handle of with a hammer then **** in his letterbox.

You won't get your money but you'll feel better.

 

[Hybrid]

Superglue a disk into the inlet and outlet of the gas meter. Then drill a small hole into the base of his soil stack and fill it with expanding foam. Then turn off the stop tap at the street and dump a load of postcrete in.

Got to be more humane than smashing him in the chops and taking a stillson to his collar bones.

 

[Phil]

Take his gas meter out, throw it in the garden, turn his water off and smash the handle of with a hammer then **** in his letterbox.

You won't get your money but you'll feel better.

Yeah until he's banged up! lol

 

[Phil]

Where's ***bria handyman when you need him?

 

[Nostrum]

You could play it sneeky, drill a 1 mm hole in the gas pipe, then issue an ID on it and get transco (or whatever the are now) to dig the road up when he refuses disconnection (which will cost him the balance of the invoice)

 

[acecharly]

Use the search function on here and putt in croppie

He does look the type you dont want to upset dont he ...jesus just the thought of him chasin me with a pair of 24's would have me cackin me pants lol

 

[Dotty]

He does look the type you dont want to upset dont he ...jesus just the thought of him chasin me with a pair of 24's would have me cackin me pants lol

And the thought of me giving you a big wet sloppy kiss would probably scar you for life!

 

[Barry98]

No probably about it IMHO

 

[Guest123]

I'll come down and ram two flexies up where the sun doesn't shine. Problem is I need to borrow two flexies first.

Pleeease tell me he's a member of the Tory party. The BBC keep giving me these muppets to play with. I'd sort the scumbag out with a good old fashioned Glasgow Kiss.

 

[EPH]

Superglue a disk into the inlet and outlet of the gas meter. Then drill a small hole into the base of his soil stack and fill it with expanding foam. Then turn off the stop tap at the street and dump a load of postcrete in.

Got to be more humane than smashing him in the chops and taking a stillson to his collar bones.

I've done the post mix one hahahaha

 

[acecharly]

I bet your just a big softy really croppie......tell me your a softy please tell me your a softy..... bugger it im running anyway im scared im scared argggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!

 

[acecharly]

is it 2 r's in that hell im scared aswell it dont matter lol

 

[TomLane]

Right, here's the deal.

I'll give you all the address & you can all carry out your own choice of retribution on this numpty!

There's one condition though, ........ It all must be filmed for future reference & posted on here for Arms members amusement only!

I'm getting an idea for another thread now that I think of it!

"Revenge - how would you serve it?!?"


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[TomLane]

All Mods,

Would this be a step too far to start such a thread?

"Revenge - how would you serve it?!?"

Thought I'd check before I posted it.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

All Mods,

Would this be a step too far to start such a thread?

"Revenge - how would you serve it?!?"

Thought I'd check before I posted it.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

no problem as long as its in the arms

 

[acecharly]

I reckon that Matt Allwright should change sides for once and do us Rogue Customers chrimbo special.

 

[TomLane]

Now that I've calmed down from all of this today, I am really not looking forward to ringing this guy. Despite the fact that if provoked I can fire quite easily I'm not particularly a huge fan of conflict or confrontation if I can avoid it.

If those more experienced amongst us could offer some words of advice as to what I would say during this phone call I would be most appreciative. It's been going round & round in my head & I'm not doing myself any favours in keeping a clear mind to offer any resistance to his efforts to be an objectionable numpty!

Thanks in advance.

 

[franky]

I've had the problem before that a customer went mad because she thought I'd undersized the rads, but I just showed her the btu outputs for each room and how they matched the rad I chose.
Has he e-mail, is there anyway you can get him to write point by point what is wrong, and then answer it point by point.
If he won't send you it in writing alarm bells should start ringing as he probably doesn't want any paper trail.
Try telling him "look you are not a cowboy you stand by all your work, if I was i would of been gone by now, you want to get this sorted amicably so if you write a list out of what the problems are on the job, you'll do your best to fix them." or something along those lines.
It is so much harder when they are unwilling to talk properly, just go to a solicitor your going down that road anyway.
DO NOT SWEAR OR RAISE YOUR VOICE for all you know he could be recording you and the last thing you want is for in court him to bring up your threatening behaviour
Good luck on this every now and again everyone gets an awful customer

 

[peteheat]

Customer (being polite) invited the Police into the argument using false allegations that you can prove false as you have the recording.

I suggest that you head on down to the Police Station, first to get a written record of the officers who attended (potential witnesses) second try having a word with the officer in charge looking for Fatherly advice etc some love to be looked up to.

Ask along the lines about having the customer charged with fraud and making false allegations, wasting police time, trying to ruin your reputation etc

In Ireland the Police are not obliged to get involved in a "Civil Matter" however when they see one party to a dispute being totally unreasonable they do have their ways of making life uncomfortable for the scum bag, little details like speeding fines for 32 mph, parking fines when front or back bumper are over yellow lines, regular visits to the house sometimes leaving the blues flashing while asking him how the heating is working, maybe following a complaint that you now have a scratch on the van you didn't see before all this blew up.

Make a few copies of the recording store them in different places for later use, does your wife / partner cry easily? if yes bring her along to the Police Station feeling all worried and threatened after hearing all the bad language on the recording etc

You need all of the law on your side and since he opened the door to the Police use them to your advantage, as franky said never swear or raise your voice even if talking with the nice Policeman about Mr. XYZ never called by his first name even today appear to be respectful toward the *#@^

Don't wait to bring your Solicitor into the picture, the moment he called the Police all chances of you ever making the alterations to his liking flew out the door, also why we all would like to help your Solicitor may give the best advice.

Try to have decided on whatever action you must take in the next few days but it in play and move on with your day to day business, incidents like this happen but are rare don't let the bar stard poison your view of every potential customer because that way he is still costing you money.

 

[Barry98]

Just break his legs and have done

 

[Dotty]

Just break his legs and have done

The Bodinator....... Ever the voice of reason and rationality......

 

[Barry98]

well.

 

[Dotty]

Lmao!

 

[Dotty]

Bodinator!

 

[Gray0689]

I'll come down and ram two flexies up where the sun doesn't shine. Problem is I need to borrow two flexies first.

Pleeease tell me he's a member of the Tory party. The BBC keep giving me these muppets to play with. I'd sort the scumbag out with a good old fashioned Glasgow Kiss.

Ill give you the flexis got loads

 

[TomLane]

Bod, still interested in this guy?

After the conversation I've just had with him I'm tempted to let him have it both barrels!

 

[Barry98]

Pm sent

 

[stani]

Tom,
has there been an outcome with this bloke?

 

[Doodlebug]

I was asked to install a boiler & 9 rads by a customer which I completed this week.

I did the work whilst the customer was away on holiday so I wasn't able to contact them whilst they were away should there have been any issues, which in my mind there wasn't.

I rang them yesterday to arrange a handover because as far as I was aware they were back early hours Saturday morning but turned out it was Sunday. So when I rang they had just landed & he seemed rather annoyed that I'd rang him. So rather than bothering him further I just asked him to ring me at his earliest convenience.

He did so this morning & immediately began ranting on the phone, accusing me of doing a sub standard job. Complaining that the boiler was too low, pipe work was poor, rads undersized etc etc.

I had several meetings with him at the house before he went on holiday to make sure we were both understanding about the installation which we went through in some depth. When I went in to do the work once he had gone on holiday there was marks on the wall to indicate further where he wanted the boiler & rads, which I followed as best as possible where the joists & surroundings would allow.

I said that I would be out first thing Monday morning to go through the supposed 'catalogue of errors' & explain what was what.

I am pretty confident with the quality of my work (rads sized & hung on wall, pipe work ran under floor) & the boiler was installed by a guy who does my gas work who is GSR & works for a reputable local firm. He does boiler & system replacements on a regular basis & between a team of 3 can even do it in 1 day, all be it an early start & late finish. So I am more than happy with the quality of his work.

The customer says that he was thinking of calling it quits (£1000 deposit taken for my security) & have me rip out the boiler,pipe work & rads & have it put to his requirements which I am obviously more than reluctant to do as I feel there is little wrong with the install. Short of telling the guy to do one in the politest possible way I am unsure of what to offer should it come to the point of compensating him for anything that we may agree is not satisfactory.

Sorry to bother you all with this on a Sunday but any advice would be appreciated & sometimes it's easier to rant on here. Thanks all.

I would call round, apologise profusely and promise to put it all right, arrange a time and date, then on the day, call round with a few lads, take photo's of you perfect installation, then drain the whole system down and remove the boiler and all of the radiators. Advise that nothing will be put back without him paying you up front for what he owes you plus what he will owe you for time lost taking a perfect system out and putting back again. Good luck mate, let us know how you get on and if you need some muscle, give Croppie a call lol

 

[TomLane]

I've sent him an invoice for all outstanding materials etc as he refused for me to go round & discuss/rectify any issues he had!

The longer it goes on the more I feel he is trying to pull a fast one.

I'd arranged for an independent GSR installer to attend site on the Monday to certificate the boiler in his presence before this all kicked off! He told me he didn't want me or anyone to do with me anywhere net his house! So I informed him that he was using the boiler illegally & at his own risk! Despite him claiming that the installation was unsafe he had still been using the boiler! That to me just proves that he was an idiot!

We installed the boiler last week on Wednesday & had been running while we were there doing any finishing off right up until we left with no problems. When I spoke to him on Monday this week, he was getting a GSR installer out on Wednesday to check it was safe!!!

If he was that concerned, he should have immediately contacted the GSR or even his energy provider & explain the situation & they would have sent someone out o check it ASAP! As he didn't leads me to further think I was 100% right.

 

[Leo21]

There's no criticism here, but who connected/ turned the gas on to the boiler? It shouldn't have even been connected or left running surely. Anyway it's quite obvious this guy is trying it on. Good luck and take legal advise quickly

 

[TomLane]

There's no criticism here, but who connected/ turned the gas on to the boiler? It shouldn't have even been connected or left running surely. Anyway it's quite obvious this guy is trying it on. Good luck and take legal advise quickly

A GSR installer that does all of my gas work.

Agreed gas shouldn't have been left on but under the circumstances (cust returning late over the weekend) I didn't think they'd appreciate no hot water/heating so left the boiler isolated at the power. It wasn't left running, just ready to go once the power as flicked back on.

Have taken legal advice from a helpful website as the family solicitor is currently sunning himself in Australia for a few weeks! Once he's back & if there's no progress from the invoice then the legal wheels will be put in motion, so to speak!

 

[peteheat]

As I understand it under the Irish RGII rules if the RGI who installed or started installing a system is replaced by another RGI there are a few formal documents that must be submitted to RGII or the installation is suspect.

Any chance your Gas Safe (RGI) subby can contact the supplier explaining the job has been done cert delayed pending payment and now the customer appears to be using the system and expects to avoid paying by using another RGI to sign off on his work?

Might be possible that the gas supplier will disconnect unless the original installer signs off on the job? A slim chance I know but might be worth pursuing.

 

[stani]

Good luck with this one Tom by the sound of it you have been more than obliging and this bloke is just taking the proverbial, as said by others he's lucky you have patience he might have got someone else who wouldn't have been so understanding, keep us informed how you get on. stani.

 

[theanalyst]

I would without doubt have turned up there by now and ripped it all out.
If he wouldn't let me some people would have returned later and left him broken.
Simple as that! I admire your patience, what a complete cn*t the guy is.

 

[TomLane]

Just a quick update for anyone interested.

Received a letter from the guy who owes me the money for this job over the weekend.

He's basically offered a tiny fraction of the cost of the materials & 4 of the rads back & is trying to bully me in to accepting his offer by stating that I he is making a firm & final offer which he considers to be fair under the circumstances. He provided an exhaustive list of aesthetic snags (which I think a lot of them he did to make the whole job look worse) to which he added that he has had 4 GSR's round & have refused to take on the work due to my apparent poor condition of workmanship. He also has statements saying that the boiler is not suitable for the size of the property. Various other bull excuses & babble that I lost interest in reading.

I wanted to avoid taking this to small claims court for obvious reasons & also wanted to avoid having to make any confrontation with him as I could not guarantee at what point I would stop after the way he has been.

So, I am meeting with my solicitor on Wednesday morning, although he has already said that this sort of thing is not usually to be dealt with by a solicitor as their costs can outweigh the actual amount of monies that are trying to be recovered.

I have been very calm & passive about this so far, but I have reached the stage now where I am going to legally wipe the floor with the idiot, failing that, I will take physical action to recover the debt.

 

[Barry98]

24 carrot prat , do him in and have done

 

[Leo21]

What a cant. He's obviously trying to pull a fast one. I think your doing the right thing taking advise. Whatever you do don't incriminate yourself in any way. Sounds like this guy would take you to the cleaners. His names not Chamberlin by any chance, we had a guy do exactly this years ago. Good luck, and I really feel for ya bud.

 

[stani]

Tom, as the installation is in such apparent poor condition, perhaps now is the time to contact the gas provider that an unsafe situation is ongoing! If its that bad ( we know it won't be) they will turn off, if they don't then at least that is more empirical evidence for your case.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

please keep us updated, hope it works out for you

 

[Barry98]

4 gsr , not very good you way then are they lol

 

[markfxy]

Issue him one of these, A Statutory Demand for Payment (under section 268 of the insolvency Act 1986). The legal process used by government (HMRC) and debt recovery companies to collect debts.A statutory demand gives individuals, limited companies, LLP's, sole traders or partnerships up to 18 or 21 days to pay the debt. After that the statutory demand has runs its course and it can followed by a bankruptcy or winding up petition.
In the minds of a debtor or a debtor’s solicitor a statutory demand is the legal equivalent of a 'warning shot from a gun'. This is because the average debtor is so scared by 'what may follow' that they usually pay up. In fact statutory demands are so successful that in 99% of cases following the issue of a statutory demand a bankruptcy or winding up petition is Never issued.Download the form from .GOV website

 

[zeebeedee]

I'd seriously find it hard to refrain from booting his door in ripping it out and installing him to the wall with a nail gun!

 

[TomLane]

I'd seriously find it hard to refrain from booting his door in ripping it out and installing him to the wall with a nail gun!

Believe me, I'm finding it hard! I'm not usually this calm! Fight first, then fight some more, then ask questions is how I used to be!

Issue him one of these, A Statutory Demand for Payment (under section 268 of the insolvency Act 1986). The legal process used by government (HMRC) and debt recovery companies to collect debts.A statutory demand gives individuals, limited companies, LLP's, sole traders or partnerships up to 18 or 21 days to pay the debt. After that the statutory demand has runs its course and it can followed by a bankruptcy or winding up petition.
In the minds of a debtor or a debtor’s solicitor a statutory demand is the legal equivalent of a 'warning shot from a gun'. This is because the average debtor is so scared by 'what may follow' that they usually pay up. In fact statutory demands are so successful that in 99% of cases following the issue of a statutory demand a bankruptcy or winding up petition is Never issued.Download the form from .GOV website

I had considered passing it to a debt recovery agency, purely for the crap that they'd give him just to pay!

4 gsr , not very good you way then are they lol

I know alot of GSR's (decent ones) who would have just laughed down the phone at him as he moans like a pig & sounds like one, so these 4 probably got a good measure of him & did one before they got trapped by him!

Tom, as the installation is in such apparent poor condition, perhaps now is the time to contact the gas provider that an unsafe situation is ongoing! If its that bad ( we know it won't be) they will turn off, if they don't then at least that is more empirical evidence for your case.

I've considered ringing GS myself & telling them he's using the boiler without a ticket as he refused to let me have it done. He reckons he's made contact with them. But as far as I'm aware all they would say to him is to get a GSR engineer in ASAP to get it ticketed?!

 

[Nostrum]

Offer to pay a heating engineer friend of yours to make the system good, free of charge to him. If he agree's, get your mate to remove it all (with the intention of replacing with new of course) load it all in the van and drive off, forgetting to uncap the gas meter and after snapping the stop tap off just before taking a dump in the toilet without flushing.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

Offer to pay a heating engineer friend of yours to make the system good, free of charge to him. If he agree's, get your mate to remove it all (with the intention of replacing with new of course) load it all in the van and drive off, forgetting to uncap the gas meter and after snapping the stop tap off just before taking a dump in the toilet without flushing.

you must remember to flush before taking a dump

 

[mfgs]

He is clearly just trying to get out of paying. But why is the boiler not registered? Surely it was commissioned prior to being left in operation by your Gas Safe engineer? Sorry if it has already been answered on previous pages. If it was then you get get Gas Safe to do a free inspection for you, you cant if it aint registered as you will end up in trouble.

 

[tamz]

I had considered passing it to a debt recovery agency, purely for the crap that they'd give him just to pay!

There is usually some crew who wear genuine crombies near you who will buy the debt for xx in the £. Depends if you want to move with them or can live with the consequences.

 

[peteheat]

Tom,

Stay well away from this man only contact him through your Solicitor, no telephone calls to or from him and warn your brother and anyone else involved on the job to avoid that post code to the point of everyone keeping a daily diary.

Not only will he have your heating system and outstanding money he could have your Freedom.

Forget the macho bull this is business you are up against one of life's scum whatever you do don't try playing his game, the rules he plays by are completely different to anything decent people are used to, he knows you are wounded and is now trying to rub salt in looking for the reaction that will guarantee him a free heating system plus the chance for compensation.

Try to stay calm, hand the job over to the professionals and get on with your business and private life.

Scum like this can eat away at you from the inside without ever being physically near you.

 

[zeebeedee]

Tom,

Stay well away from this man only contact him through your Solicitor, no telephone calls to or from him and warn your brother and anyone else involved on the job to avoid that post code to the point of everyone keeping a daily diary.

Not only will he have your heating system and outstanding money he could have your Freedom.

Forget the macho bull this is business you are up against one of life's scum whatever you do don't try playing his game, the rules he plays by are completely different to anything decent people are used to, he knows you are wounded and is now trying to rub salt in looking for the reaction that will guarantee him a free heating system plus the chance for compensation.

Try to stay calm, hand the job over to the professionals and get on with your business and private life.

Scum like this can eat away at you from the inside without ever being physically near you.

Probably a better idea than Nailing him to the wall. Although mine would be more fun!