Bathroom conversion gone from bad to nightmare!

[wildfirejc]

My husband and I saved for years so that we could convert our bathroom to a shower-room. We asked around for plumbers and most are fully engaged with other jobs. Then we remembered a guy who came into our shop once to hand over a stack of his name-cards. He called himself a plumber. We phoned him and asked him to quote. He was available and he was very helpful. We showed him the literature of what we thought we should buy as a wet-room shower tray - giving him two options. He advised us to go for the Abacus Direct Elements shower-tray - which has to be tiled over. So we did. We got a DVD from Abacus to show him how to install it - he took it home with him and then we ordered the taps, cistern, wall pan, sinks, vanity-unit, etc. Once he started, he took 2 days longer than he said he would. That's OK we thought at first - he is being careful - better that than doing a slap-dash job. He told us to get our own tilers cos his contacts are busy with other jobs. So we hunted around for a tiler and found what we thought was a good tiling company. After 3 weeks, we ended up having to sue the tilers cos they tiled the shower-tray wrongly and the shower tray creaks, the plumber than left a note through our letterbox saying he can't finish the job and although we've paid him £1000 in advance, he says he's giving us a credit note for the £750 balance...so what we're left with are: 2 sinks without taps (not installed yet), one wall-hung toilet which is not secure, a huge stain on our living room ceiling where he left a cut pipe unplugged and advised us it's ok to use the shower tray - and water flowed backwards from the tray through the cut pipe, flooding the bathroom, plus a radiator which has been plumbed upside down and without bleed valves or stop-valves. HELP!!!!
Oh to add insult to injury, he also didn't return our house key.

 

[missplumb]

my god, he sounds like the plumber from hell!!!!, sounds like he under estimated the amount of work he had to do and ran away. ltes just hope that you do get at least the £750 back from him.

 

[johnmcginty]

This guy gets no work , probably because he doesn't advertise much and charges a small hourly fee which most jump at. He then gets a job like yours and thinks he can't turn it down as he needs the cash! ( as he doesn't advertise enough and has no business sense) he then bites off more than he can chew.

Why did you ever give him a grand in advance??? for materials maybe on big jobs get a deposit.
Hire some heavies to go round and slap him across the chops , or phone consumer direct who will point you in the right direction for getting your money back off this rouge cowboy.

Always get references for jobs like that and never accept the lowest quote.

Wetrooms are specialist jobs that specific plumbers know about, not every plumber , always do you research.

 

[WHPES]

Never Never Never pay upfront!! Buy the materials from him by all means as long as he leaves them with you.

I always sub wetrooms out as I don't know enough about them myself.

Make sure you get your key back or one day you might come back to find all your stuff gone, especially if you start to take action to recover your money (which you have very little chance of getting unless you can tap into his better nature). He probably just realised the project is beyond his abilities.

 

[wildfirejc]

My husband decided to finish off the sinks which he left uninstalled. So we went off to B&Q to get parts today. Got one sink working without leaks (yet) but the other one is a little more technical...cos it sits on a granite slab - and the granite slab sits on 4 chrome plinths about 4 inches high - which sits on a vanity unit. So it's difficult to get his hands underneath the granite to tighten the screw-nut that holds the click-clack waste in the basin hole. Any tips will come in handy.
Anyway, there is also another little white plastic cap on a copper pipe. We wanted a douche spray next to the toilet. So he put in a copper pipe and left it with a white plastic cap on.
Anyone has any idea how the white plastic cap comes off - and do we turn off the water supply first before doing that? Doesn't appear to have any stop valves in place.
Here're the pictures. So any suggestions of how to get the white cap off and the douche tap on?

 

[double d]

The plastic white cap is a Push fit stop end, MAKE SURE YOU TURN THE WATER OFF FIRST at the main stop tap, then there is a seal around the bottom of the fitting that you lift up and pull the fitting off, you will then have a open end to your pipe

Hope ive explained it good enough for you to understand 🙂 good luck

 

[PlumbBobBob]

with the pushfit stopend, if you pull it up slightly there is part that stays down, you need to hold that piece up against the top while you pull the cap off. not forgetting to turn the water off at the main stopcock first!

 

[Guest123]

I install wetrooms and bathrooms and I would never install anything that I had not tried and tested many times and knew it to be sound, so did your alarm bells not go off in your head when he had to take home an installation dvd to see how to install the tray!?
Get your local Trading Standards involved and get your £750 back. A credit note, that's a joke!!! He's taking the pee and has bitten off more than he can chew as he obviously doesn't have a scooby how to do the install in the first place.
I hope you get your money back and get someone decent to complete it. Get your new plumber to thoroughly check everything first, especially the waste pipe and trap.

 

[WHPES]

Be careful with a douche spray by a WC as there's all kinds of rules and regulations concerning their installation.

 

[paulnwales]

ouch, try trading standards.. then small claims court. because if what your saying is tru this so called plumber needs a slap.

 

[WaterTight]

I install wetrooms and bathrooms and I would never install anything that I had not tried and tested many times and knew it to be sound

You must have installed things you hadn't tried and tested at some point. There's got to be a first time?
The process of learning necessarily involves occassionally biting off more than you can chew. The trick is to take no more than a mouthful so when you have to spit it out it's no biggy. This guy probably took the whole fridge.

 

[Guest123]

When I first started out, I obviously hadn't tried and tested everything I use, but I stick with what I know works. The only real exception to trying out something new is JG Speedfit and only then did I use it extensively when I felt happy with it.
I agree that there is a learning process and every day is a school day. I don't think it right to experiment with peoples homes though and everyone should know their limitations. If you can't do the job properly, sub it out to someone who can and you might still make a bit from it.

 

[wildfirejc]

OK - the latest problem we now have is the wall-hung pan. We bought a SIAMP concealed cistern frame. So the plumber put it in - one wall is external - so he screwed the frame into that. We remembered at the time that he left the wall-pan screws hanging...anyway, he then built the box (while we were out working) - so didn't see if he actually screwed the wall-pan screws into the wall...after he finished, the tilers tiled the whole box. Then we tried it for a day and a half and saw that the toilet is leaking from betw the tiles and the pan. The pan was also shaky.
He came in with a young boy (supposed to be a gas-fitter) to sort out the loose toilet pan and leak...they tightened it and sealed it - so no more leaks. Now that he's thrown in the towel, we are looking once more at a shaky toilet pan...so my husband tried tightening it himself...guess what...tightening the buts both sides pulls the whole bolt through so there is no way to reduce the gap between the pan and the box - there seems to be nothing on the other end to hold it back!!!
So maybe he forgot to screw the other end to the wall??? Any suggestions would be welcome.

 

[Guest123]

OK - the latest problem we now have is the wall-hung pan. We bought a SIAMP concealed cistern frame. So the plumber put it in - one wall is external - so he screwed the frame into that. We remembered at the time that he left the wall-pan screws hanging...anyway, he then built the box (while we were out working) - so didn't see if he actually screwed the wall-pan screws into the wall...after he finished, the tilers tiled the whole box. Then we tried it for a day and a half and saw that the toilet is leaking from betw the tiles and the pan. The pan was also shaky.
He came in with a young boy (supposed to be a gas-fitter) to sort out the loose toilet pan and leak...they tightened it and sealed it - so no more leaks. Now that he's thrown in the towel, we are looking once more at a shaky toilet pan...so my husband tried tightening it himself...guess what...tightening the buts both sides pulls the whole bolt through so there is no way to reduce the gap between the pan and the box - there seems to be nothing on the other end to hold it back!!!
So maybe he forgot to screw the other end to the wall??? Any suggestions would be welcome.

It's not fixed correctly and sounds like the washers are missing too. Sorry but I'd advise you to open the whole thing up and have it checked as a loose toilet might cause it to leak again. I feel so sorry for you and I hope you get your money back and finally get the quality bathroom you've saved so hard for. :-(

 

[easyt]

It is a damned shame.

 

[pobsdad]

It's awful when this happens.We all cock up now and then,but this guy is no plumber!The worst part is that if you decide to get a real plumber in to finish the job,you'll have a hard time finding anyone willing to inherit someone elses mess,without charging over the odds.Without ripping it all out and starting again,how do you guarrantee someone elses work?What happens when something he did leaks in 8 months,and your 'new' plumber wants to charge for the repair?

 

[wildfirejc]

Oh boo hoo...are there any plumbing heros out there living near Lydd, New Romney, Kent?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

[email protected]

mail Dan he will help you !!!

he is member of the forum here

 

[unguided1]

hey safegasinstall, lol I hope Dan wasnt the original plumber, rofl,
sorry but couldnt resist!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wildfirejc]

Hi,
Contacted Dan but he says the journey to our house takes 1 and a half hours - so he doesn't want to do it.
Anyone else living in the TN29 vicinity who can help?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I know he said last night well is 1.5h each way drive for him ! Hope some one will get to you !

 

[wildfirejc]

Just as a matter of interest, how much should a plumber charge if he has done the following list of jobs please?

1. Dismantled longbath, 2 sinks and 1 toilet
2. Reorganised pipes to run across 2mtr room for new shower head and sink
3. Fitted cloakroom sink on counter-top
4. Fitted stop valves for 2 douche taps
5. Dismantled radiator
6. Fitted new radiator
7. Serviced Combi-boiler
8. Dismantled kitchen tap
9. Fitted new kitchen tap
10. Built cladding for concealed cistern
11. Installed Abacus Direct Shower tray
12. Installed wall hung Thermostatic Shower control unit

All sanitary units and equipment supplied by customer.
Plumbing bits and pipes supplied by plumber

He also did the following but they are incorrectly installed - so I think I shouldn't be charged for the following:-
1. Installed concealed wall frame for cistern (nuts were in wrong place and wall hung pan is loose)
2. Installed wall hung pan to wall frame ( connected to item 1 - not fit for purpose, can't be used)
3. Installed shower arm to wall (shower arm flopping -probably not braced properly found rawl plug stuck on side to be used as brace)
4. Installed sink on vanity unit not centrally sited - so tap water runs behind sink
5. Left undone - cloakroom tap not installed, sink waste not installed, one douche tap not installed

 

[tamz]

How long is a piece of string?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

from London to Edinburgh 🙂

 

[tamz]

And back at least😉

 

[SafeGasInstall]

🙂🙂🙂🙂 that will be expansive bathroom according to this string , if it was for boiler change or full ch install will travel but for this .....better off local plumbers job

 

[dontknowitall]

I might be way out because, as Tamz suggests, how long is a piece of string but a guess is 10 days (£1,750) and say £500 for materials so £2,250.

This, though, is a real finger in the air type of figure but if you were wondering whether it should be nearer £500 all in I'm not sure you could find anyone to do it for that price and expect a reasonable finish and if someone charged you £8,000 I think you'd only be wondering about the price as the quality of work would, presumably, be perfect and so you wouldn't be hear telling us of your nightmare (which it is).

I hope you get sorted soon.

 

[allstarsystems]

£1800 sounds around the rite price i would say i just cant explain no more how these shocking tradesman wannabes get away with this you said hes got your house key too!

 

[wildfirejc]

Yup - had to change the locks.

 

[tamz]

Yup - had to change the locks.

Just incase they came back for your telly😀

 

[Guest123]

from London to Edinburgh 🙂

The way we all voted in the Scottish elections, you lot are going to need a passport to cross the border! LOL

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I'll be all right as I dont have one now 🙂

 

[unguided1]

I here that wimpey ave the contract to rebuild hadrians wall!!!!

 

[wildfirejc]

The plumber sent his minion this morning. He took off the wall hung pan and we confirmed that the nuts on either side of the concealed cistern frame (which holds the rod that the wall pan hangs on) are loose - so loose in fact - one was about 5 inches away from the frame.
The plumber is blaming the minion for tightening and loosening the rod - and making the nuts move away from the frame. This is a SIAMP BCM350 frame.
He insisted that the minion should put his hand through the hole (for the soil stack) and screw the nuts back against the frame on either side to dead lock them.
The wall plate has been over-tightened (due to the loose nuts) and now we've noticed that the bolts on the wall plate have cracked the thermaliteMy question is: If they insist that they can do repairs without dismantling the cladding and tiles from the concealed box - are they talking utter rubbish?
When exactly should I put my foot down and say - enough is enough, just give me my money back and I'll get someone else to do a proper job?
Oh and behind the wall hung pan, the plumber has piled on a massive amount of silicone to "seal" the leak - which was the result of the loose nuts, making hte wall hung pan move, and so the soil stack membrane was twisted and should they even do that?

 

[wildfirejc]

Here are the photos of the silicone sealant. You'd think he owns shares in a silicone sealant company from the amount he used!

 

[wildfirejc]

Sorry to trouble you again guys - but the plumber sent his minion to rectify the faults and I just need to ask one question - when he took off all the silicone sealant from the soil stack (drain pipe) that is connected to the back of the wall hung pan, the soil stack pipe is now held onto the few inches of wall hung pan pipe by a rubber membrane - and the whole thing wobbles.
I've uploaded it onto youtube - to give you a better illustration.
YouTube - Soil Stack Wobble.MOV

Please help.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

shouldn't be that wobbly would suggest to your plumber to replace the fitting.

 

[wildfirejc]

Which fitting? The soil stack? Could it be that since SIAMP is made in Monaco and the width of the soil stack is 100mm, the Euro Wall Hung pan has a drain pipe that is perhaps 110mm, the two of them need some kind of adaptor?

 

[tamz]

They way you are holding it the connector will move. Push it back hard against the wc and there will be little movement, perhaps 5 - 10º deflection. It is the way they are made as they are made to fit a range of sizes.
As widfire said, the wc spigot may be undersized which will give more movement.
Have a read at this link and you will see what i mean (these are about the best brand of connector imo)
WC Connectors - Multikwik

You won't be long in finding out if it seals when it is flushed.

 

[wildfirejc]

Hello all,

Right at this moment, the whole thing is in the hands of the small claims but I do have a question:
Eversince the combi-boiler has been "tampered" with by the plumber and his side-kick, whereby I was billed for a Combi-boiler servicing and a new radiator installed (albeit upside down), the water pipes now give occasional tremors - shuddering - even though no one is using the taps or the central heating isn't on.
So what do you think is the problem now? We did bleed the radiators - hissed alot and the safety valve of the combi - boiler shot out and left a black spot on the ceiling...
Would appreciate any advice.

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

Sounds like too much prressure

Was the filling loop left on?

 

[Guest123]

Probably air. Think you should get a recommended plumber or heating engineer to have a look, will save you more money and pain in the long run. Just a wee word of advice, if this is all going to court, keep your info private and don't disclose it, moreso on the internet or it could backfire on you in court.

 

[wildfirejc]

I don't know - most likely. What do I do now? Pressure guage shows 2 bars I think. The sidekick actually left the key in the combi-boiler (when he finished) and he had to come back the next day to take it out - he gave instructions for us to do it - but we couldn't - so he came back - tugged at it with all his might - and it wouldn't budge - then he fiddled around for ages - and finally he found that if he turned it at a certain angle - the tabs in the key returned to the holes where one can pull it out easily without fighting with the whole thing.

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

Just now read the whole thread!!!

This is appalling

Even if you get your money back you will likely be a loss due the state of everything

Find a local tradesman and ask him to pop round for a free quote and the you can take that to the small claims court