bathroom refit. what hot cylinder set up and what shower

[minmax89]

Hi all!

I'm about to do a bathroom re-fit in a bungalow.

The bathroom is at the far end of the house, next to the garage. It is a large en-suite to a guest room. I'll be replacing the bath with a shower and getting rid of the current electric shower and replace it with a Mira Vigour thermostatic power shower

Customer wants me to install a HW cylinder in the garage next to the bathroom. I'm going to fit a vented cylinder and so will need a CW tank. Looking into solutions, I remembered the combination cylinders that they use in apartments, etc. I thought this might be a great solution, time saved on installation etc. and would mount it as high as I could (to get the best head pressure) with still being able to service the ball cock, etc.

So I went to local plumbers merchants to look at them and the guy there's got me all confused about head pressure. He is basically saying to me that it doesn't matter how high i mount the combination tank as the HW cylinder is going up with it. The head pressure will be the same as the two tanks are joined together. He lost me there.😕

Can someone confirm, my head pressure is denoted by the distance between the base of the CW tank and the shower head right? or is it base of the CW tank to the pump - whether that be in the Mira Vigour pump on the shower wall or a seperate twin impeller pump at floor level feeding a thermostatic bar valve say?

To boil it down, do I do:

a) mount a direct cylinder at bathroom floor level, CW tank high above it.
b) fit a combination tank high as I can.

and the shower:

a)fit a Mira Vigour
b)seperate twin impeller pump with and thermo shower valve.


Few! Hope that makes sense.

Please go easy. I've been plumbing as part of my maintenance business for about 5 years so I know lots but there's more I don't know. And I'm all self taught.

Many thanks for your time and this site has been a god send for me.

Adam

 

[TBServices]

http://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/rm-stelflow-unvented-direct-cylinder-120-litre/98278

Centre brand etc even cheaper. Not bad cylinders either.

 

[Best]

As little as £450 - £500 Inc vat for a very decent & fairly big 200 litre unit complete with gear & a 25 year warranty on the unit.
Usually small amount of copper needed.
When you consider a vented system needs a pump, it makes it a no brainer to go unvented if possible.
Well worth the unvented training.

 

[minmax89]

I hear ya all on the cost element. This however is Ireland and price and availablitiy are nowhere near what they are in the UK. I am a little limited. However, to be honest I've not priced both (vented and unvented) up fully so will before I go any further.

Firstly, you need to get the pressure & flow tested before you rule out an unvented cylinder! If pressure is a steady 2bar or more & flow is about 20litre/min or more, then that would be fine.
Also, how can you say an unvented cylinder would be "considerably more than a vented system"?
A vented system in your case, needs a new cwt & a copper or stainless steel hot cylinder, plus all the pipework from one to another (considerable), also overflow pipe, heavy pipe insulation, valves & a place for the cwt.

Whereas an unvented unit comes complete with most gear & needs only a discharge pipe added & a motorised valve correctly wired. A cold tank with kit plus a copper cylinder alone will probably cost more than most of the complete unvented units!

I can test the pressure alright and will now. This bungalow was built in 1970 in the rear garden of 4 story Georgian town house (split into many Flats) and they connected off the mains of that house or something. Few years ago he had water board (Irish equivalent) over testing the water pressure in his place, etc but I will investigate that more...

120l Unvented would certainly be cheaper than tank, cylinder and pump IMHO. Even if you spend £150 training and getting certified.

As little as £450 - £500 Inc vat for a very decent & fairly big 200 litre unit complete with gear & a 25 year warranty on the unit.
Usually small amount of copper needed.
When you consider a vented system needs a pump, it makes it a no brainer to go unvented if possible.
Well worth the unvented training.

I do like the idea of learning about the installation of these and possibly get a cert myself some day.

I have a heating engineer who is RGI registered (similar to Corgi). I get him in to do my gas connections when needed. If he's registered to fit unvented I can talk to him and get a price for an installation, then compare the two. I'm going to try and show you some prices for cylinders here - you may be a little shocked!

Can anyone tell me a little more about this G3 ticket? I get what it's for but more info would be good for education purposes. I'm sure there is an equivalent here in Ireland (or good chance not!!!) so will be able to investigate if I know more about UK version.

 

[Best]

I would be surprised if an unvented cylinder is a lot more expensive in the Irish Republic.
If you are ever near to Northern Ireland you could get one but you would need a van or trailer probably.
There is an unvented exam here in UK solely for unvented which takes a day or less. I would assume there is an Irish equivalent. You are supposed to be a plumber to do the qualification but check with a training place.