Boiler choice: Ideal or Vaillant

[LPC]

Honestly I think you'd have to be absolutely mental to choose an Ideal over a Vaillant.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Honestly I think you'd have to be absolutely mental to choose an Ideal over a Vaillant.

Have you ever fitted a Vogue LPC?

 

[Whyme]

After being an avid vaillant installer for many years and been disappointed i'm an ideal man now. Only vogue tho don't like logics either.

 

[Ray Stafford]

After being an avid vaillant installer for many years and been disappointed i'm an ideal man now. Only vogue tho don't like logics either.

I think the Vogue is under-rated only by those who haven't fitted one. I honestly haven't had a single customer tell me that they regretted fitting a Vogue.

 

[LPC]

Have you ever fitted a Vogue LPC?

I haven't, no. But when you've been in the trenches with Isars/Icos and now i'm seeing loads of knackered Logics (replaced a PCB on a 2.5 year old one the other day) there is just no way I would fit an Ideal.

I can't see how they'd be better than a Vaillant? Yes, they're a bit cheaper but to be honest most of my customers aren't price focused.

And now I can give a 10-year warranty on a Plus, and 7 on the price-cut Pro; it's a no brainer really.

 

[Leo21]

It's not about how they are to fit, or how good they look. It's about reliability, back up and track record.
Vaillant three, ideal none!

 

[Ermintrude]

Vogue mate it's 10x the boiker

 

[Ermintrude]

Valliant are crap back up and parts are expensive.. Ideal E type, Mexico, classic,logic, vogue..... Valliant turbo 242 then down hill. Early Eco with rubber hoses and cracked cony connections below hex. G10 fiasco...

 

[hammers4spanner]

Vogue vs vaillant hmmmm or middleweight vs heavyweight or newbie vs proven product .

Ideal have improved a lot since the last shambles they produced however i have noticed the logic has had faults . Vaillants also have faults but a much bigger company to provide back up tho that said vogue new boiler un tested and ultimately like all manufactured parts will fail.

get a log burner and a big kettle lol

 

[Ermintrude]

Valliant and glow worm

 

[Leo21]

Valliant are crap back up and parts are expensive.. Ideal E type, Mexico, classic,logic, vogue..... Valliant turbo 242 then down hill. Early Eco with rubber hoses and cracked cony connections below hex. G10 fiasco...

Non electronic boilers don't really count, name a bad one!. The shear size of ideal Feau par has wiped the brand from my consciuosnes.

 

[LPC]

Valliant are crap back up and parts are expensive.. Ideal E type, Mexico, classic,logic, vogue..... Valliant turbo 242 then down hill. Early Eco with rubber hoses and cracked cony connections below hex. G10 fiasco...

Simply not true. Fitted a Plus that had a dodgy loom, customer rang me 3 days after install, Vaillant came out same day and sorted. Yes rubber hoses were a weak point, but very, very easily sorted.
Vaillant parts are not expensive at all compared to pretty much any other manufacturer. In fact, I find they're on the cheaper end for most things.

Build quality, reliability, backup; second to none, IMO. I try to fit the best for my customers, as they take my advice over any, and in my opinion all things considered, Vaillant are the best boiler you can spend your dollars on. But I have had a drink.

 

[Whyme]

Fitted the Vaillant 831 when it first came out, i was an advocate...After all the slug probs the rubber hose probs the continual diverter probs the dodgy pump probs the fact they now don't have knobs on the front only elderly unfriendly controls, we've ditched them. Ideal were complete sh**e but there vogue is top draw. i dont like the lower end but you'd have to be mad to like a budget from any manufacturer.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

I've fitted both and done the training courses on both, my first choice is still the Vogue.
Reasons i love it:
1. Easy to fit
2. Looks great(some homeowners are that shallow)
3. 10 Year warranty
4. Plenty of space in there, I'd rather a bigger boiler with lots of space than a tiny thing thats a barsteward to work on.
5. 7m head pump, easy control interface(you really need the codes for the vaillant) and light up dials 😀
6. I've got a free ipad to collect from points \o/

 

[Leo21]

Fitted the Vaillant 831 when it first came out, i was an advocate...After all the slug probs the rubber hose probs the continual diverter probs the dodgy pump probs the fact they now don't have knobs on the front only elderly unfriendly controls, we've ditched them. Ideal were complete sh**e but there vogue is top draw. i dont like the lower end but you'd have to be mad to like a budget from any manufacturer.

You say that but the Baxi Duo Tec isn't bad. Probably a complete accident, but quite robust.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

I know Ideal had a disastrophe with the isar/icos/istor and probably wish they never left the test board but they learnt a hard lesson and have come back with IMO one of the finest boilers of this generation in the Vogue.
The Logic is still a solid mid range boiler too with nearly 1.4 million fitted since launch.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I've fitted both and done the training courses on both, my first choice is still the Vogue.
Reasons i love it:
1. Easy to fit
2. Looks great(some homeowners are that shallow)
3. 10 Year warranty
4. Plenty of space in there, I'd rather a bigger boiler with lots of space than a tiny thing thats a barsteward to work on.
5. 7m head pump, easy control interface(you really need the codes for the vaillant) and light up dials 😀
6. I've got a free ipad to collect from points \o/

so your getting bribed to fit them 😀

 

[Ray Stafford]

Vaillants also have faults but a much bigger company to provide back up

I think that globally, this is true. Ideal has been sold to the Groupe Atlantique, whose turnover is just shy of Euro 1 billion, whereas the Vaillant global turnover is about Euro 2.3 billion.

However, in terms of unit sales in the UK, my understanding is that Ideal have now displaced Vaillant as the No 2 boiler, behind Worcester.

 

[Ermintrude]

How much is a pump head for a mark 2 Eco ? What u need housing aswell ? Ans the melting flue or the insulation on the door falling to bits?

 

[LPC]

The only time I see the door insulation fallen apart on Vaillants is when they've still not had the burner gasket changed to the graphite one and the seals been compromised. Usually when that's happened the door insulation is the least of the problems!

I did a pump the other day actually on a 7-year old Ecotec Pro. Had to change the entire hydraulic block and remove/refit diverter because they changed from Wilo to Grundfos. Whole job done in 40 mins start to finish. How many boilers can you say that about? Think I only paid about 150 for pump and block brand new.

 

[Leo21]

Tbh I think boiler spares prices are criminal. I get tired of telling custards how much the repairs are going to cost. When worked out against labour prices, parts are more than labour.Which is never right.

 

[bert large]

All boilers have or have had their weak points.
Vaillant's hoses & gasket problems. Worcester's splitting plastic parts etc. Glow-worms leaking from everywhere. Baxi Duo-Tec GA, Ferroli being Ferroli etc. etc.

Vaillant's current models have been on the market for around ten years now. Their build quality faults were sorted years ago & they continue to be a rock solid reliable boiler.

The litmus test will be if we can say the same about the Ideal Vogue in ten years time. If so then it will have earn't the right to be mentioned as a rival to the Vaillant in terms of reliability as the Baxi Duo-Tec HEA is.
I recall many creaming themselves about how good the Ideal Logic was several years ago but from what I hear those are suffering many breakdowns as they get older.

 

[Leo21]

All boilers have or have had their weak points.
Vaillant's hoses & gasket problems. Worcester's splitting plastic parts etc. Glow-worms leaking from everywhere. Baxi Duo-Tec GA, Ferroli being Ferroli etc. etc.

Vaillant's current models have been on the market for around ten years now. Their build quality faults were sorted years ago & they continue to be a rock solid reliable boiler.

The litmus test will be if we can say the same about the Ideal Vogue in ten years time. If so then it will have earn't the right to be mentioned as a rival to the Vaillant in terms of reliability as the Baxi Duo-Tec HEA is.
I recall many creaming themselves about how good the Ideal Logic was several years ago but from what I hear those are suffering many breakdowns as they get older.

What he said.

 

[drip-dry]

Tbh I think boiler spares prices are criminal. I get tired of telling custards how much the repairs are going to cost. When worked out against labour prices, parts are more than labour.Which is never right.

you should put ya labour price up then !!!

:wink_smile:

sorted

:conehead:

 

[hammers4spanner]

All boilers have or have had their weak points.
Vaillant's hoses & gasket problems. Worcester's splitting plastic parts etc. Glow-worms leaking from everywhere. Baxi Duo-Tec GA, Ferroli being Ferroli etc. etc.

Vaillant's current models have been on the market for around ten years now. Their build quality faults were sorted years ago & they continue to be a rock solid reliable boiler.

The litmus test will be if we can say the same about the Ideal Vogue in ten years time. If so then it will have earn't the right to be mentioned as a rival to the Vaillant in terms of reliability as the Baxi Duo-Tec HEA is.
I recall many creaming themselves about how good the Ideal Logic was several years ago but from what I hear those are suffering many breakdowns as they get older.

bang on the button

Vogue totally untested and as i said earlier i like the logic as good mid range boiler however faults are now showing

 

[Ivanwawryn]

I like all the vaillant a boilers, also Baxi 10 year warranty

 

[solutions]

Cos they're easy to install 😉 Is the Vogue system boiler as highly regarded as their combi's seems to be?

Yes, basicly the same boiler (unsurprisingly) just be aware there is no built in bypass on the system vogue.

 

[solutions]

Honestly I think you'd have to be absolutely mental to choose an Ideal over a Vaillant.

If money isn't an issue for the customer I would agree.

 

[solutions]

I think that globally, this is true. Ideal has been sold to the Groupe Atlantique, whose turnover is just shy of Euro 1 billion, whereas the Vaillant global turnover is about Euro 2.3 billion.

However, in terms of unit sales in the UK, my understanding is that Ideal have now displaced Vaillant as the No 2 boiler, behind Worcester.

Wow that's some interesting stats. But really we are comparing a Vailant boiler that has been around a while with some minor modifications and an ideal boiler that's fresh of the cad computer having clearly cloned the vailant. The next vailant will give them back the technological edge as soon as they start feeling the pinch of a competitors product outselling them, the designs they have tested and waiting in the wings will be launched and then ideal will take another 10 + years before deciding to clone another superior product. The winning features on the vogue are all things the vailant has and did first.

 

[Searcher2]

I know this is a 6 month old thread but I am trying to decide between a Vaillant Ecotec Pro/Plus or an Ideal Logic+/Vogue. The bloke I am waiting for prices on for Vaillants reckons he can give 7 year warranty on the Pro and 10 on the Plus making it the same warranty as the Ideal Logic+ and Vogue.

At work today I asked a service engineer for our commercial boilers if he was familiar with domsetic boilers. He reckoned that there are less problems with the Pro than the Plus and also less with the Logic+ than the Vogues. I was surprised by his claims - though he had nothing to gain by giving me false info. He reckoned that the stainless steel exchanger was liable to warping on the Vogue. Has anyone similar experiences?

Looking around the net it seems that in the event of a problem Vaillant seem to be slower to respond than Ideal and maybe more liable to try to wriggle out of the warranty. Am I wrong here? I am looking for a reliable boiler anyway so hope not to have to call out.

Quietness is also important and Vaillant are the only boilers to be Quiet Mark registered. Is there really a noticeable difference though?

Thanks in advance...

 

[julesverne]

Stainless steel heat exchangers prone to warping what tosh.
Vaillant also use stainless steel heat exchangers same as vogue.

From my experience only ever fitted 1 vaillant and it was ok but cant give a better report as ive not fitted enough to give an opinion on reliabilty.

Fitted loads of vogues and logics pluses and the vogue is superior.
Logics are a good boiler but without proper flushing and a good quality magnetic filter the diverter valve will fail. That said all new combis do that if not installed properly.

 

[erion]

Look into system boiler and cylinder it would be better for the future

 

[newcastle phill]

Regarding the noise aspect i have fitted both.
To my ear oddly the logic+ seemed the quieter but not a lot in it.0

 

[Searcher2]

Look into system boiler and cylinder it would be better for the future

Thanks... but no room for it. Well it may be possible but I think it would be a big job.

 

[Searcher2]

Regarding the noise aspect i have fitted both.
To my ear oddly the logic+ seemed the quieter but not a lot in it.0

I think the Logic+ has a lower DB rating on the specs but I hadn't seen anyone say it was quieter than the Vogue until now. Thanks