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K

kriket

Hi,

Our 3-bedroom detached house in Birmingham had it's GlowWorm Compact 100e's pump overheat and it seems replacing the pump will cost around £100-£200. If I am going to spend £200 to repair a 10-year old boiler, I might as well fork out £500 on a budget boiler. Checked the reveiws on reviewcentre where everyone said heatline caprizplus is really good and has vaillant internals except the brand name. And a local plumbing company is also selling them for around £450 on ebay with 2 years parts and labour.

However, was just about to buy the above till I read a few posts on this forum which didnt favor the above boiler. So please help me choose a decent budget boiler according to my property:
1. Detached 3-bedroom house which had glowworm compact 100e fitted about 10 years ago. (so the property should be set-up to install a combi boiler - forgive me, its my parents property and am not sure about the set-up, though they tell me that the boiler heats up the water as well as the central heating obv).

2. looked at ideal logic , however it will be a tad over what we can afford. Can u guys recommend a link to get that at a bargain price. (£600 budget).

3. you guys know someone who can install the boiler for a nice, cheap price? (birmingham)

thanks.
 
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Your problem is that you have a 10 year old cheap at the time boiler that now is uneconomical to fix.

you need to increase your budget or have the same problem again in 5-10 years. The labour is the same cost to fit a poor boiler as a good one.
 
Your problem is that you have a 10 year old cheap at the time boiler that now is uneconomical to fix.

you need to increase your budget or have the same problem again in 5-10 years. The labour is the same cost to fit a poor boiler as a good one.

a bit harsh. idea logic+ with 5 year warranty is a good deal surely. If not, tell me what would u recommend then?

PS - It wasnt us who installed the boiler 10 years ago. We only recently moved in to the property and hence a little tight on budget. still think £600 should be fair for a decent midweight budget. Of course, one can always install worcestor but if there is a decent alternative, I would rather ask the people on here about it.
 
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If you like the look of the Logic, but are under price pressure, look at the Ideal Independent. It is the same basic machine as the Logic, although not identical. It is a bit cheaper though.
 
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Not everyone can afford to buy premium products, otherwise we would all be driving Aston Martins.

The Ideal Logic is a decent boiler, and not to be sneezed at. You might struggle to get it in your budget though.
 
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a bit harsh. idea logic+ with 5 year warranty is a good deal surely. If not, tell me what would u recommend then?

PS - It wasnt us who installed the boiler 10 years ago. We only recently moved in to the property and hence a little tight on budget.
Sorry didn't mean to sound harsh. ( it's the way I write)

but you said you were trying to get a boiler for around £500. That is the problem. The ideal is a good boiler but its not in the budget you mentioned.
Ideal Logic + Plus System Boiler Packs Natural Gas
 
Not everyone can afford to buy premium products, otherwise we would all be driving Aston Martins.

The Ideal Logic is a decent boiler, and not to be sneezed at. You might struggle to get it in your budget though.
If I can get ideal logic plus for around 600 I will probably go for it, but how worse is "ideal independent" than "ideal logic"? Of course, cheaper and hence not as good , etc, but if its not too bad, i will go for the cheaper one due to a limited budget.
 
If I can get ideal logic plus for around 600 I will probably go for it, but how worse is "ideal independent" than "ideal logic"? Of course, cheaper and hence not as good , etc, but if its not too bad, i will go for the cheaper one due to a limited budget.

Some of the more techie guys will be able to give you the detail, but its certainly the same basic platform, and I think about 90% of the components are the same. The warranty details are the same. Obviously back-up will be the same engineers.
 
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Sorry didn't mean to sound harsh. ( it's the way I write)

but you said you were trying to get a boiler for around £500. That is the problem. The ideal is a good boiler but its not in the budget you mentioned.

see the thing is if you google " reviewcentre heatline caprizeplus" u will find tens of 5 star reviews for a boiler that I can get for 450 and 2 year parts and labor. If the reviews are independent then surely a cheap boiler cant be that bad. and like people said, ideal logic+ cant be that bad and I can buy that for 650 as well (ebay, etc). Just dont want to stretch it as installation will cost me as well cos will have to get a gas certified engineer in.
 
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Some of the more techie guys will be able to give you the detail, but its certainly the same basic platform, and I think about 90% of the components are the same. The warranty details are the same. Obviously back-up will be the same engineers.
yes, waiting for them to reply. thanks for the advise. also what about "ideal pro combi"?
 
Dont forget that when you look at the price of a boiler online you only see the price of the boiler.
Other items are required to go with it. Time clocks, filling loops, flues, chemicals, etc etc.
What you see online may not be that accurate, best to get quotes from someone who will supply and fit everything.


Edit I was beaten too it
 
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yes, waiting for them to reply. thanks for the advise. also what about "ideal pro combi"?

The Pro Combi is an own brand for one of the distributors. At the moment it happens to be made by Ideal - its another version of the Logic/independent family.

Its a bit like the way car makers use the same basic platform across several brand names.
 
and also labour to fit

like i said earlier

see the thing is if you google " reviewcentre heatline caprizeplus" u will find tens of 5 star reviews for a boiler that I can get for 450 and 2 year parts and labor. If the reviews are independent then surely a cheap boiler cant be that bad. and like people said, ideal logic+ cant be that bad and I can buy that for 650 as well (ebay, etc). Just dont want to stretch it as installation will cost me as well cos will have to get a gas certified engineer in.​
hence, looking for a midweight boiler as all these extras will increase the total cost.



 
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Dont forget that when you look at the price of a boiler online you only see the price of the boiler.
Other items are required to go with it. Time clocks, filling loops, flues, chemicals, etc etc.
What you see online may not be that accurate, best to get quotes from someone who will supply and fit everything.


Edit I was beaten too it

some sellers include flue kit, but other than that I am on my own. Could u please give me a list of what I would need to get if I was to go with ideal logic+ for example?


PS - I cant post links but could someone pls tell me why a £450 boiler (heatline capizeplus) has twelve 5 star ratings on reviewcentre? and someof them from a certified engineer. All that stuff about vaillant parts?
 
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You know if you get an engineer in, he does all this leg work for you, its what your paying him for

Once you've got all your bits, why dont we just tell you how to fit it and you wont need to pay anyone.
 
The Pro Combi is an own brand for one of the distributors. At the moment it happens to be made by Ideal - its another version of the Logic/independent family.

Its a bit like the way car makers use the same basic platform across several brand names.

but its really cheap and within the budget and sellers on ebay are including everthing it seems - timer, flue, etc. for £500. Cant post links as new member.

But its not worth it if its not a good boiler but someone recommended this here on the forums in a previous thread. So would like more opinions and recommendations as it seems there are a load of midweight boilers out there and I might be able to find one which is good and at the right price.
 
You know if you get an engineer in, he does all this leg work for you, its what your paying him for

Once you've got all your bits, why dont we just tell you how to fit it and you wont need to pay anyone.
Like i have mentioned several times in this thread, I am going to get a certified engineer (and also asked members here to give me a quote for the labor in the OP). But if the boiler comes with all the extra stuff, what can i do?
 
Look, what the guys are saying here and you're not getting a grasp of is there's more to a boiler replacement than just a boiler!

Get 3-4 quotes from GSR's. Suggest to them the boiler(s) you've had recommended.

He may steer you to a boiler he is familiar with for 2 reasons.


  1. He'll be commissioning it.
  2. You would probably want him to service it every year.

The problem with you supplying the boiler is that if there are any problems at all with it out of the box you're stuck with it, whereas if your gsr is supplying it the onus is on him to get it working. Likewise the warranty is down to him too.
 
PS - I cant post links but could someone pls tell me why a £450 boiler (heatline capizeplus) has twelve 5 star ratings on reviewcentre? and someof them from a certified engineer. All that stuff about vaillant parts?
Some peoples idea of a good product is a cheap product.
If you get 5 quotes you will probably get 4 different recommendations on the best boiler.
Choose the installer you feel most comfortable with doing the work as they will most likely be servicing and maintaining it for you in the future.
 
Look, what the guys are saying here and you're not getting a grasp of is there's more to a boiler replacement than just a boiler!

Get 3-4 quotes from GSR's. Suggest to them the boiler(s) you've had recommended.

He may steer you to a boiler he is familiar with for 2 reasons.


  1. He'll be commissioning it.
  2. You would probably want him to service it every year.

The problem with you supplying the boiler is that if there are any problems at all with it out of the box you're stuck with it, whereas if your gsr is supplying it the onus is on him to get it working. Likewise the warranty is down to him too.

i do get that but even GSRs are quoting over £1000 to supply and install a boiler like "ideal independent". I asked one GSR in the area when I was getting a quote for the pump for my old boiler but maybe I should ask more GSRs tomorrow. Can you or someone tell me, how much will I be expected to pay in total for a midweight boiler supplied and installed by a gsr? perhaps a price range if not an exact amount?
 
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Some peoples idea of a good product is a cheap product.
If you get 5 quotes you will probably get 4 different recommendations on the best boiler.
Choose the installer you feel most comfortable with doing the work as they will most likely be servicing and maintaining it for you in the future.

normally that is the case, but when i read reviews like the following, I wonder

"We are Gas Safe installers and have fitted around 60 of these (heatline caprizeplus) boilers. They have been completely reliable and the customers love them. Basically the internals are all Vaillant. They come complete with the Vaillant heat engine (gas valve, fan and heat exchanger) and have a 'air snorkel' fitted to reduce air intake noise. Fitted is the latest 2014 regs compliant Grunfos 15/50 modulating pump to reduce noise and increase efficiency. Well built, easy to use, operate and install. Don't be put off by the budget price. You wont be disappointed.


"
 
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Ideal logic plus has internal filling loop and flue pack. You would need a programmable stat. Inhibitor and cleaner. Ideal installer will get u 7 years on ideal logic plus. I would recommend them . 24 kW is a small boiler. Are your showers electric. As a minimum I would say 30 or even 35kw. Your gas supply may also require upgrading and as the new boiler is condensing you will need a route for the condensate to get to a drain. Use a credicard with 0% to buy boiler and then £300 to install it.
 
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£1000 to supply and fit a boiler is cheap

I think the cheapist install ive done is £1250 and that was because it was the easiest install ever, £1000 to supply and fit is as cheap as its gonna go, maybe even too cheap, if you know what i mean
 
Ideal logic plus has internal filling loop and flue pack. You would need a programmable stat. Inhibitor and cleaner. Ideal installer will get u 7 years on ideal logic plus. I would recommend them . 24 kW is a small boiler. Are your showers electric. As a minimum I would say 30 or even 35kw. Your gas supply may also require upgrading and as the new boiler is condensing you will need a route for the condensate to get to a drain. Use a credicard with 0% to buy boiler and then £300 to install it.

the current boiler (glow worm compact 100e) does both the central heating and the showers. So will need a 30-35 then. really do appreciate the advise
 
That sounds like an advert for the boiler.
I have never fitted or even seen the boiler mentioned, it might be great and problem free for 10 years. Or you might wish in two years you had chosen another.
In the end it come down to budget and you have to make your own decision.
 
£1000 to supply and fit a boiler is cheap

I think the cheapist install ive done is £1250 and that was because it was the easiest install ever, £1000 to supply and fit is as cheap as its gonna go, maybe even too cheap, if you know what i mean

but like the other poster said, if i can get the boiler and kit for 500-600 and leave aside 300 for install, i wont need to spend 1250
 
That sounds like an advert for the boiler.
I have never fitted or even seen the boiler mentioned, it might be great and problem free for 10 years. Or you might wish in two years you had chosen another.
In the end it come down to budget and you have to make your own decision.

I do thorough research before deciding, and decided to go with the stated boiler initially (heatline caprizeplus) after reading such reviews from GSRs on several forums who say they not only install it in other peoples properties but their own too. I would post links of forum posts , posted by people who had been a long time members etc, but will avoid as its not good etiquette. Personally, I was going to buy it but changed my mind after reading a thread on this forum. At least, for now I am not in a huryy to get the £450 offer.
 
but like the other poster said, if i can get the boiler and kit for 500-600 and leave aside 300 for install, i wont need to spend 1250

you're not factoring we are running businesses
we have tools, consumables, vehicles, accountants, insurances, we have to register that boiler, do admin work.

Registration of that boiler costs us money, so that 300 is slashed.
consumables used in the install
less money again for us.
other materials to pay for
our time and travel

i would be better off working at tescos 🙂

not to mention if you supply the boiler then the gsr won't take responsibility for it in the future.
it hasn't come from our suppliers!

I know you want the cheapest option and in the current climate most people do.
but a point comes when that cheap option becomes very expensive down the line....
 
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Buy cheap, buy twice

see u guys are not getting the point. If a GSR is going to supply and install the same "ideal independent" boiler for £1200, I might as well get the same boiler for £600 and pay a willing GSR £300 to install. Of course, you as a GSR will like more but there might be a GSR who might be willing to do the job for £300. Each to their own. (infact I already have a GSR who might be willing to do it for the price as he does all the other plumbing at a discount as well) And I am still getting the 5 year parts and labor warranty with the brand. Totally understand, that you have to make a living , but if I can get a boiler myself with warranty for much else, and have a GSR who is willing to install , why should I not go that route especially if we have a tight budget.

Dont want to stir anything up guys, just need recommendations on a decent midweight boiler.
 
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Please let us know how you got on, what boiler you chose and how much you had to pay for installation, would be interested to know if a GSR would do it for £300 all in

Best of luck with your search
 
£1000 to supply and fit a boiler is cheap

I think the cheapist install ive done is £1250 and that was because it was the easiest install ever, £1000 to supply and fit is as cheap as its gonna go, maybe even too cheap, if you know what i mean


Sorry, but I wouldn't be suppling and fitting a boiler for a Grand, I'm sure some people would, so beware!!
 
Please let us know how you got on, what boiler you chose and how much you had to pay for installation, would be interested to know if a GSR would do it for £300 all in

Best of luck with your search
will do. Anyone else know whether "pro combi" is any good? as regards to the post number 16 by "Ray Stafford"?
 
gasman, I am just here to get recommendations on a budget boiler. Someone else mentioned that GSRs can install it for £300, and i am just quoting that. So pls can we just chat about boilers only? Heatline caprizeplus, ideal logic+ or independent or pro combi?
 
see u guys are not getting the point. If a GSR is going to supply and install the same "ideal independent" boiler for £1200, I might as well get the same boiler for £600 and pay a willing GSR £300 to install. Of course, you as a GSR will like more but there might be a GSR who might be willing to do the job for £300. Each to their own. (infact I already have a GSR who might be willing to do it for the price as he does all the other plumbing at a discount as well) And I am still getting the 5 year parts and labor warranty with the brand. Totally understand, that you have to make a living , but if I can get a boiler myself with warranty for much else, and have a GSR who is willing to install , why should I not go that route especially if we have a tight budget.

You make a reasonable point, but I think that there is something you are also missing.

I should make it clear that I am not an engineer, I am a wholesaler.

If you buy the boiler from whatever source (not us, we only sell trade) and then get a GSR installer to put it in labour only, thats fine, until there is a problem.

Who owns that problem? The manufacturer will claim faulty installation. The GSR will rightly say "not interested mate, I sold you xx hours of time for £yy". Call the manufacturer.

Answer - you own the problem. And putting it right will cost you way more than paying for a quality install in the first place.

But of course it may be fine. If so, you win. If not, you lose.
 
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You make a reasonable point, but I think that there is something you are also missing.

I should make it clear that I am not an engineer, I am a wholesaler.

If you buy the boiler from whatever source (not us, we only sell trade) and then get a GSR installer to put it in labour only, thats fine, until there is a problem.

Who owns that problem? The manufacturer will claim faulty installation. The GSR will rightly say "not interested mate, I sold you xx hours of time for £yy". Call the manufacturer.

Answer - you own the problem. And putting it right will cost you way more than paying for a quality install in the first place.

But of course it may be fine. If so, you win. If not, you lose.

thanks for clarifying this. Now you put it like that, and obv whats the point of 5 year warranty if they r not going to honor it.

Seems like I might just have to get a few GSRs to look at the property
 
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gasman, I am just here to get recommendations on a budget boiler. Someone else mentioned that GSRs can install it for £300, and i am just quoting that. So pls can we just chat about boilers only? Heatline caprizeplus, ideal logic+ or independent or pro combi?

As much as i wish i could say choose the capriz to teach you a life lesson, even i'm not that vindictive.
ive removed over a dozen in the past year alone.

Pro combi ive only seen one, it was 2/3 years old and we were pulling it out.
the ideals i have no idea
 
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As much as i wish i could say choose the capriz to teach you a life lesson, even i'm not that vindictive.
ive removed over a dozen in the past year alone.

Pro combi ive only seen one, it was 2/3 years old and we were pulling it out.
the ideals i have no idea
appreciate it mainly cos I was interested in heatline in the first place cos GSRs like the one on reviewcentre gave it 5 stars. Otherwise, how else do people like myself come to know about such boilers.

seems like I might have to increase my budget to 1200-1300
 
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thanks for clarifying this. Now you put it like that, and obv whats the point of 5 year warranty if they r not going to honor it.

Ah - the heart of the problem.

You are thinking of a boiler as a stand alone appliance, like a fridge, or a washing machine.

It isn't.

A boiler is a component in a larger system - your central heating and hot water system. That system is complex, and every one is slightly different.

The warranty is fine IF its a boiler problem. But if the problem is caused by your system, then the warranty is void.

Just for one example - your installer on a budget doesn't flush the system properly. A bit of muck from the old system gets into the new boiler, and blocks the heat exchanger.

Why should the boiler warranty cover that?

And that's just the commonest issue.
 
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appreciate it mainly cos I was interested in heatline in the first place cos GSRs like the one on reviewcentre gave it 5 stars. Otherwise, how else do people like myself come to know about such boilers.

seems like I might have to increase my budget to 1200-1300

Dont forget most GSR peeps are VAT registered, so add that to the 1200-1300.
 
Ah - the heart of the problem.

You are thinking of a boiler as a stand alone appliance, like a fridge, or a washing machine.

It isn't.

A boiler is a component in a larger system - your central heating and hot water system. That system is complex, and every one is slightly different.

The warranty is fine IF its a boiler problem. But if the problem is caused by your system, then the warranty is void.

Just for one example - your installer on a budget doesn't flush the system properly. A bit of muck from the old system gets into the new boiler, and blocks the heat exchanger.

Why should the boiler warranty cover that?

And that's just the commonest issue.
yeah u have clarified everything for me mate. might just decide to get the part fixed for the old boiler for now until I see fit to fork out for a decent boiler with 7 year warranty and obv fitted properly by a GSR.
 
appreciate it mainly cos I was interested in heatline in the first place cos GSRs like the one on reviewcentre gave it 5 stars. Otherwise, how else do people like myself come to know about such boilers.

Heatlines are readily available to the public, whats better than having the customer buy it, you bash it in charge £££. Ignore any issues as you didn't supply it. After a few years fold company and start anew.

or install it, soon as it goes wrong, charge through the nose to repair it.

i only install vailliants, worcester bosch and intergas boilers.
im just starting out and i lose work because i wont offer bottom line boilers, pricing me out of some work.
why?
because i intend to look after my customers.
not install a problem and get a bad rep.

as i get familiar with other boilers i might offer them!
 
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thanks guys. also, what do u think about the british gas £400 scrappage deal. They probably charge £3000 when a GSR would do it for 1500

edit - they do
 
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thanks guys. also, what do u think about the british gas £400 scrappage deal. They probably charge £3000 when a GSR would do it for 1500
My next door neighbour has a british gas contract, two weeks ago his Combi, (ideal) split the heat exchanger.
Boiler not worth repairing so british gas gave him a quote with £800 discount and £400 scrapage.

The quote for a easy swap was ....... £4240.. Inc vat ... Bargain.
They put it on to knock it off.
 
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and what about those GSRs on ebay offering to supply AND fit a 32kw Ferroli with a 5-7 year warraty for £900. (i would post link but cant and u can check listing for yourself). Again, I am not just trying to go for the cheap option. I am trying to get my head round the fact that if they are willing to cover for 5-7 years for £1000, then does it matter if the boiler is a ferroli or a vaillant? I mean sure vaillant is better brand but I will be covered the same for 5-7 years, and even a vaillant or a woscestor can go dead after say 5-7 years when out of warranty. thought?
 
and what about those GSRs on ebay offering to supply AND fit a 32kw Ferroli with a 5-7 year warraty for £900. (i would post link but cant and u can check listing for yourself). Again, I am not just trying to go for the cheap option. I am trying to get my head round the fact that if they are willing to cover for 5-7 years for £1000, then does it matter if the boiler is a ferroli or a vaillant? I mean sure vaillant is better brand but I will be covered the same for 5-7 years, and even a vaillant or a woscestor can go dead after say 5-7 years when out of warranty. thought?

Not seen the eBay ad but I bet it's FROM £900 . As soon as they see the job the quote goes up.

its just to tempt you.
 
Not seen the eBay ad but I bet it's FROM £900 . As soon as they see the job the quote goes up.

its just to tempt you.
its not from. and the feedbacks are good so probably not a bad GSR, its probably that price cos the brand is crap. But thats what I am asking. If they are covering me for 5-7 years, what does it matter if i have a ferroli or vaillant.
 
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the feedbacks are good so probably not, its probably that price cos the brand is crap. But thats what I am asking. If they are covering me for 5-7 years, what does it matter if i have a ferroli or vaillant.

What he is saying is that "FROM" £900 doesn't mean that you can have one for £900. Its a way of getting the salesman in the door

As soon as they get on site, they find reasons to increase the price.
 
What he is saying is that "FROM" £900 doesn't mean that you can have one for £900. Its a way of getting the salesman in the door

As soon as they get on site, they find reasons to increase the price.
yeah I guess so. will probably go for a decent boiler but just browsing and asking questions, thx guys
 
You can go round in circles with this.

If it was possible to get a good quality installation, with a premium product and a long warranty at a rock-bottom price, everyone would be doing it wouldnt they?

Eventually you have to decide where the compromise is going to be.
 
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Hello cricket, I think there are a lot of variables you are not factoring into your proposed install? Not your fault, I admit.

The chaps on ebay will quote you £900 to supply and fit. But I guarantee you there is a SMALL PRINT somewhere. You will not know about this till you are submitted with the final bill? Yep, it may be as much as £1,900. At which point, you would wish you had used a local GSI to supply & fit the boiler of their choice.

I know of engineers who replace combi boilers for £300. Not me, not a chance in hell.

Peeps ring you and say: ''c'mon, how difficult can it be? You remove the old Combi and replace with new Combi. Easy as chips. Should take you a maximum of THREE hours.''

Really???
Old boilers had no condesate to route to a satisfactory drain off point. That has to be done. When your system was installed, there was no need for every bedroom to be kitted with a TRV. All bedrooms require one now. I could go urn but dont want to sound like a broken record.

For me to replace a Combi for another Combi, you are looking at a minimum of £1,500. That includes boiler, TRV's, flushing system, dosing with Inhibitant, fitting a TF1 Filter, RF room stat etc.

Good luck with your £900n budget. Will you find someone to do it? Yes, plenty will do it. NOT ME
 
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Please let us know how you got on, what boiler you chose and how much you had to pay for installation, would be interested to know if a GSR would do it for £300 all in

Best of luck with your search

People on here saying they work for 120 on green deal. So 300 for labour for same jobs seems pretty good? Ok registration £7. But that leaves 293. Which is a few shillings more than they usually get? Our buisness wouldn't entertain it. Cheapest combi swap we actually do is £1450. 24kw, no pipework (condensate only minimal cut and sweat stuff) and no stat.
 
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When they ate saying £300 all in. Surely that can't include any materials ?

Don't know how people do it and cover their overheads.

when you buy a packet of crisps you pay for more than just the potato! ( might use that at the bottom of all my posts. Lol.)
 
People on here saying they work for 120 on green deal. So 300 for labour for same jobs seems pretty good? Ok registration £7. But that leaves 293. Which is a few shillings more than they usually get? Our buisness wouldn't entertain it. Cheapest combi swap we actually do is £1450. 24kw, no pipework (condensate only minimal cut and sweat stuff) and no stat.

People who work for £120 are de-valuing our trade and themselves, its not sustainable business.

How are they gonna pay for their acs, replace van and tools and eat on £120?
 

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