Cast iron rad tails affixing

[Bogart]

Is there any preferred method of connecting tails to a cast iron rad as opposed to a steel one? Manufacturer says use LSX, never tried this stuff.
Thanks

 

[Harvest Fields]

Sure there was another thread on this recently? But I could be wrong?

 

[Sharp Point]

Boss white and hemp, tried and tested. Or for extreme punishment stag n hemp

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes there was

Loctite 577 for me

 

[Bogart]

I made a rig up to pressure test the rads before I attempt installation and the only way I could get a seal was with boss white and hemp. Never tried the the LS-X but using ptfe on its own failed. I do have Loctite 55 but not 577 which I am assuming is similar to LS-X.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I made a rig up to pressure test the rads before I attempt installation and the only way I could get a seal was with boss white and hemp. Never tried the the LS-X but using ptfe on its own failed. I do have Loctite 55 but not 577 which I am assuming is similar to LS-X.

You had it leak with 55?

 

[SimonG]

Ptfe and paste. Just done 24 of them.

 

[Bogart]

You had it leak with 55?

Never got around to 55 as the boss white and hemp worked.

 

[Bogart]

Ptfe and paste. Just done 24 of them.

Paste?

 

[Best]

Paste?

Boss White and correct amount of ptfe.
Although I use V2 Lube paste for most jobs nowadays, the Boss White is one of the best pastes for joints on threads to radiators or other heating system female or male joints.
Not for potable though

 

[ABK]

Loctite 55

 

[CHRISX]

Is there any preferred method of connecting tails to a cast iron rad as opposed to a steel one? Manufacturer says use LSX, never tried this stuff.
Thanks

Hello Bogart,

I advise You to NOT use Fernox LSX for any connection on a Heating system.

The reason being if any of the mastic gets into the pipework it solidifies into small lumps which travel around the system and can find their way into the small orifices in Thermostatic Radiator valves blocking them - obviously resulting in the Radiator not working.

Screwing in threaded Radiator valve tails would be the ideal circumstance for some of the LSX mastic to be pushed into the Radiator in small `blobs` which would then be circulated around the system and possibly get stuck in a TRV orifice.

I do use Fernox LSX mastic on various Plumbing tasks and it is `good stuff` BUT - not on Heating systems !

Perhaps You could tell the Radiator Manufacturer who recommended LSX that a Professional Heating Engineer told you `never use Fernox LSX mastic for any joint on a Heating system` - and tell them why ?

It might save other Radiator buyers from being told something that is NOT advisable.

Any of the recommendations from Members above would be appropriate for the Radiator valve connections.

Chris

 

[Bogart]

The LSX will therefore remain unopened. As it took hemp and boss white to get a seal for my test setup will stick with those, at least I know they work.

 

[CHRISX]

The LSX will therefore remain unopened. As it took hemp and boss white to get a seal for my test setup will stick with those, at least I know they work.

Hello again Bogart,

When I started in the Plumbing Trade `Boss White & Hemp` was the ONLY way to seal `Domestic` / small bore threaded joints.

For larger bore threads there was a `Thread reinforcing string` on a roll which was preferred by `Pipe Fitters` to Hemp for larger bore Pipes / threads.

I think that a Joint `paste` called `Stag` was favoured by Pipe Fitters for both small and large bore threads and I think it was put onto the market in the late 1960`s / early 1970`s [?] - there were only a couple of varieties then but I think that the brand now has a few varieties for various uses.

Now there are many varieties of `Jointing Paste` and liquid sealants.

Good Luck with your Radiator valve joints.

Chris

 

[rpm]

Hello again Bogart,

When I started in the Plumbing Trade `Boss White & Hemp` was the ONLY way to seal `Domestic` / small bore threaded joints.

For larger bore threads there was a `Thread reinforcing string` on a roll which was preferred by `Pipe Fitters` to Hemp for larger bore Pipes / threads.

I think that a Joint `paste` called `Stag` was favoured by Pipe Fitters for both small and large bore threads and I think it was put onto the market in the late 1960`s / early 1970`s [?] - there were only a couple of varieties then but I think that the brand now has a few varieties for various uses.

Now there are many varieties of `Jointing Paste` and liquid sealants.

Good Luck with your Radiator valve joints.

Chris

The jobs done Chris 🙂
Thanks for the trip down your memory lane though.

 

[CHRISX]

The jobs done Chris 🙂
Thanks for the trip down your memory lane though.

Hello rpm,

How do You know that Bogart / the OP completed the Radiator connections between Saturday morning and now ?

I have a feeling that You are trying to provoke me into insulting you - however your inane comment displays your attitude / mentality.

I will try not to lower myself by resorting to name calling - unlike yourself when you called me a `Clown` recently.

Chris

 

[rpm]

Hello rpm,

How do You know that Bogart / the OP completed the Radiator connections between Saturday morning and now ?

I have a feeling that You are trying to provoke me into insulting you - however your inane comment displays your attitude / mentality.

I will try not to lower myself by resorting to name calling - unlike yourself when you called me a `Clown` recently.

Chris

Hello again CHRISX,
First up, my error for failing to notice the word Test in the reply as for the rest of your reply well, where is the icon for rolling around on floor the laughing? 😀

 

[ABK]

Hello again Bogart,

When I started in the Plumbing Trade `Boss White & Hemp` was the ONLY way to seal `Domestic` / small bore threaded joints.

For larger bore threads there was a `Thread reinforcing string` on a roll which was preferred by `Pipe Fitters` to Hemp for larger bore Pipes / threads.

I think that a Joint `paste` called `Stag` was favoured by Pipe Fitters for both small and large bore threads and I think it was put onto the market in the late 1960`s / early 1970`s [?] - there were only a couple of varieties then but I think that the brand now has a few varieties for various uses.

Now there are many varieties of `Jointing Paste` and liquid sealants.

Good Luck with your Radiator valve joints.

Chris

Thanks, interesting to know. I've seen the sprinkler guys using a string with paste on their threads.

Which was the best method in your opinion?

 

[CHRISX]

Thanks, interesting to know. I've seen the sprinkler guys using a string with paste on their threads.

Which was the best method in your opinion?

Hello ABK,

The `Joint reinforcing cord`/ `String` is probably best for the larger bore pipe threads as it is very easy to wind into the thread and it saves the Installer from having to pull Hemp into strands.

I would recommend `Boss White / Hawk White & Hemp` for Small bore [up to 1.25"] Iron Pipework for water.

Chris

 

[NickH]

I use Loctite 55 and Jet paste, but most importantly I roughen the thread on the tails with a file before wrapping with the 55. This helps the string to stay on the thread when you screw it in.
Some tails and male fittings do come pre "roughened".

 

[Bogart]

I was assuming the word string was referring to Loctite 55.
Am about to start the jobs this morning.

 

[CHRISX]

I was assuming the word string was referring to Loctite 55.
Am about to start the jobs this morning.

Hello Bogart,

Loctite seem to have the market `tied up` [excuse the unintended pun] with Loctite 55 now.

I have no idea who manufactured the `Joint reinforcing cord` that I mentioned in a previous message to You in the 1960`s & 1970`s or since / before Loctite 55 became available.

Just like Yarn and Hemp it just came with no manufacturers identification that I can remember from the Plumbers Merchant.

Hemp is also available in dispensers which allow a `strand` to be pulled out which is good for use on large bore threaded joints - it just saves having to pull strands of Hemp off the `Hank` [`Hank of Hemp`].

Good Luck with the Radiator tails.

Chris

 

[Bogart]

Have tried Boss White with hemp and Loctite 55 both have made a good seal. I like the idea of Boss White with cast iron rads, like what it used to be! Think I will use Loctite55 on any other rad as I think is better than ptfe. One point I did note was that both of them seem to slip the thread a bit and bunch up but sealed so what?

 

[rpm]

Sounds like you may have applied the products to the thread in the wrong rotation.

 

[Bogart]

Nope correct direction. Maybe I am just putting too much on the thread

 

[rpm]

Nope correct direction. Maybe I am just putting too much on the thread

Depends on what you mean by bunch up then I guess. Applied in the correct rotation the chosen product is compressed into the thread and any sealant is pushed outwards.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Cross hatch the threads with a hack saw blade not too deep .5mm

 

[Bogart]

I have marked the threads as shown on various videos including one from Loctite . Attached are 2 photos first one is of Loctite55 second one is Boss White and hemp.

 

[rpm]

Look I appreciate that you are diy however both are a mess and I'm not convinced that the products used were applied in the correct rotation.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

loctite one is spot on

hemp looks to be a bit too much paste but doesnt matter

to clean them up carefully go round the thread as close to the rad as possible and cut the excess off with a hacksaw blade

 

[rpm]

loctite one is spot on

hemp looks to be a bit too much paste but doesnt matter

to clean them up carefully go round the thread as close to the rad as possible and cut the excess off with a hacksaw blade

Are you serious Shaun, would you be happy to put your name on the ptfe joint?

 

[Bogart]

Look I appreciate that you are diy however both are a mess and I'm not convinced that the products used were applied in the correct rotation.

Well I do know my clockwise from my anticlockwise. A mess? If I exhibited them at the Tate Modern would be worth a fortune.

 

[Bogart]

loctite one is spot on

hemp looks to be a bit too much paste but doesnt matter

to clean them up carefully go round the thread as close to the rad as possible and cut the excess off with a hacksaw blade

I was going to trim them off with a stanley knife when they have been in use a while.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Are you serious Shaun, would you be happy to put your name on the ptfe joint?

yes as thats how boss white and hemp goes

will give you an idea but he doesnt use enough hemp for my liking

 

[rpm]

yes as thats how boss white and hemp goes

will give you an idea but he doesnt use enough hemp for my liking

Cheers but don`t need a leason, done 1/8 bsp to 10 or 12" pipe joints over the years, only on the bigger stuff in places like Battersea power station would they be acceptable.
PS I did say the ptfe joint.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Cheers but don`t need a leason, done 1/8 bsp to 10 or 12" pipe joints over the years, only on the bigger stuff in places like Battersea power station would they be acceptable.

you should know then, they need cleaning afterwards and then they look sweet as pie

 

[rpm]

You still saying the ptfe one is "Sweet as pie", how can somebody make a mess like that with a roll of tape is beyond me. And yes a little brass wire brush will make it sweet. 😉

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You still saying the ptfe one is "Sweet as pie", how can somebody make a mess like that with a roll of tape is beyond me. And yes a little brass wire brush will make it sweet. 😉

Because it's loctite 55 not tape

 

[rpm]

my error and true, still a ruddy mess, should only be one tail.

 

[Bogart]

Opened a bag of worms here🙂Might not be the neatest looking, at present but after trimming will be fine. Both types are holding at 5bar on test, did out of interest, as my system runs at 1 bar max I am happy they will be fine.

 

[CHRISX]

Hello again Bogart,

Good advice from Member Shaun - that process is known in the Trade as `scratching the joints`.

But as You have such a nice finish on the Radiators I would suggest very carefully removing the excess Loctite 55 and Hemp using a Stanley knife / Craft knife / Knife blade instead of a hacksaw blade for less chance of scratching the paint / finish.

Could You post a photo of the `Test Rig` that you are using - I assume to pump up the Radiators individually with Gauges ?

Chris

 

[Bogart]

Here are photos of the test rig. I only decided to make something like this as earlier this year I fitted 2 cast iron rads and one leaked from one of the sectional joints. Turned out the fault was a distorted washer, had been installed badly on manufacture. I now test all all sectional rads I install aluminium ones also. I have 23 rads in my property all of which need replacing. I have done nearly half so a long way to go. I usually test the rads in the garage but with cast irons I like a retest in situ as in pictures. It gives piece of mind when installing that they are in good nick regarding integrity.

 

[Bogart]

Now another question about rads. I have been given a steel column radiator made by Acova. It did not come
with any fixings. As it weighs some 50kg minus water I thought floor mounting would be more sensible. I therefore obtained 3 feet as per the attached photo.
Two questions 1. Why is there only one fixing hole in the foot ?
2. Which way does one affix it to the floor the screw hole to the front or rear?

 

[CHRISX]

Hello Bogart,

Please don`t think that I am patronising You regarding this - my motive for asking about the Testing and my comments is for Safety reasons.

I am also thinking of future readers of this thread:

Are You testing with Compressed Air or Water and then pressurising with an Air compressor - I could not tell for certain from the photos but the hose looks like an Air hose ?

The reason why I ask is that testing with Compressed Air to 5 Bar can be very dangerous if there was any sudden leak or a push fit fitting blew off - or if a less experienced person than yourself disconnected the Test rig without relieving the pressure first.

A sudden leak at 5 Bar / approx. 74 PSI of Air Pressure is high enough to Blind or in fact have Air bubbles pushed through the skin into your veins - a possible `Killer` situation if they reached the Brain.

Air Testing to anything like this pressure is definitely not recommended because compared to pressurising Water the volume of Air that can be compressed is very large - hence the possible severe injuries that can be caused if anything goes wrong.

Regarding the Column Radiator `Feet` fixing I would put the screws at the back so that they are not immediately visible when looking at the Radiator.

I guess that there is only one screw hole because when the Radiator is on top of the Feet because it is so heavy the Feet are definitely not going anywhere - the screw is just to hold them in position especially when the Rad is being lifted on.

I am guessing that You will be painting the `Feet` to try and get a similar colour to the Radiators ?

You obviously know that you will also need the Radiator wall fixings which go through the Rads between the Columns and fix to the wall to prevent the Radiators falling forward or backwards ?

Chris

 

[SimonG]

I prefer the actual acova feet but more expensive.

i would want the screw at the back and maybe drill a second one.

 

[Bogart]

Hello Bogart,

Please don`t think that I am patronising You regarding this - my motive for asking about the Testing and my comments is for Safety reasons.

I am also thinking of future readers of this thread:

Are You testing with Compressed Air or Water and then pressurising with an Air compressor - I could not tell for certain from the photos but the hose looks like an Air hose ?

The reason why I ask is that testing with Compressed Air to 5 Bar can be very dangerous if there was any sudden leak or a push fit fitting blew off - or if a less experienced person than yourself disconnected the Test rig without relieving the pressure first.

A sudden leak at 5 Bar / approx. 74 PSI of Air Pressure is high enough to Blind or in fact have Air bubbles pushed through the skin into your veins - a possible `Killer` situation if they reached the Brain.

Air Testing to anything like this pressure is definitely not recommended because compared to pressurising Water the volume of Air that can be compressed is very large - hence the possible severe injuries that can be caused if anything goes wrong.

Regarding the Column Radiator `Feet` fixing I would put the screws at the back so that they are not immediately visible when looking at the Radiator.

I guess that there is only one screw hole because when the Radiator is on top of the Feet because it is so heavy the Feet are definitely not going anywhere - the screw is just to hold them in position especially when the Rad is being lifted on.

I am guessing that You will be painting the `Feet` to try and get a similar colour to the Radiators ?

You obviously know that you will also need the Radiator wall fixings which go through the Rads between the Columns and fix to the wall to prevent the Radiators falling forward or backwards ?

Chris

Hello Bogart,

Please don`t think that I am patronising You regarding this - my motive for asking about the Testing and my comments is for Safety reasons.

I am also thinking of future readers of this thread:

Are You testing with Compressed Air or Water and then pressurising with an Air compressor - I could not tell for certain from the photos but the hose looks like an Air hose ?

The reason why I ask is that testing with Compressed Air to 5 Bar can be very dangerous if there was any sudden leak or a push fit fitting blew off - or if a less experienced person than yourself disconnected the Test rig without relieving the pressure first.

A sudden leak at 5 Bar / approx. 74 PSI of Air Pressure is high enough to Blind or in fact have Air bubbles pushed through the skin into your veins - a possible `Killer` situation if they reached the Brain.

Air Testing to anything like this pressure is definitely not recommended because compared to pressurising Water the volume of Air that can be compressed is very large - hence the possible severe injuries that can be caused if anything goes wrong.

Regarding the Column Radiator `Feet` fixing I would put the screws at the back so that they are not immediately visible when looking at the Radiator.

I guess that there is only one screw hole because when the Radiator is on top of the Feet because it is so heavy the Feet are definitely not going anywhere - the screw is just to hold them in position especially when the Rad is being lifted on.

I am guessing that You will be painting the `Feet` to try and get a similar colour to the Radiators ?

You obviously know that you will also need the Radiator wall fixings which go through the Rads between the Columns and fix to the wall to prevent the Radiators falling forward or backwards ?

Chris

 

[CHRISX]

Hello again Bogart,

Your latest message has no text from You - just my previous message quoted twice.

Chris

 

[Bogart]

Not sure why the 2 entries above appeared. I respect your views re the testing, always best to err on the side of caution. My method is to fill the rad with water with the orange handle valve closed. Then gradually open it once the compressor is ready. Increasing the pressure in 1 bar increments until I have the desired test pressure then close the orange valve. My opinion is then that there is actually very little actual air in the rad. As the cast iron rad are rated at 6bar but have supposedly been tested at 10 bar I only keep the 5 bar on for about 30 minutes. I will then drop it to 2 bar and leave overnight. Testing with water does help in indicating where, if any ,the leaks are.
Regarding the feet they are white to match the radiator. This is not the same rads as I have been testing.

 

[Bogart]

I prefer the actual acova feet but more expensive.

i would want the screw at the back and maybe drill a second one.

I thought screw at the back from an aesthetic point of view . Though in this position the radiator could more easily slip forward as the taller portion of the support is to the rear. I might actually put them on reversed ie screw to the front so the radiator is in a way pushed towards the wall in my mind supporting it better. Then maybe cover the screwhead with a white cap. Acova suggest 6 wall mounting brackets for my size of rad but I would not be happy it just being wall mounted as it weighs in at 78Kg when empty!

 

[SimonG]

I thought screw at the back from an aesthetic point of view . Though in this position the radiator could more easily slip forward as the taller portion of the support is to the rear. I might actually put them on reversed ie screw to the front so the radiator is in a way pushed towards the wall in my mind supporting it better. Then maybe cover the screwhead with a white cap.

I did think this once I had posted. The acova feet just slip over.

 

[Bogart]

I have seen the original Acova feet, ie the adjustable height ones and they to my mind look quite ugly, Cannot say I impressed by the later version either. As for the feet that Screwfix/ Toolstation sell which vary as to how many columns there are look so flimsy. Hence my decision to go for these 3rd party ones which I will probably incorporate with a couple of wall hooks to give the rad stability.

 

[CHRISX]

Not sure why the 2 entries above appeared. I respect your views re the testing, always best to err on the side of caution. My method is to fill the rad with water with the orange handle valve closed. Then gradually open it once the compressor is ready. Increasing the pressure in 1 bar increments until I have the desired test pressure then close the orange valve. My opinion is then that there is actually very little actual air in the rad. As the cast iron rad are rated at 6bar but have supposedly been tested at 10 bar I only keep the 5 bar on for about 30 minutes. I will then drop it to 2 bar and leave overnight. Testing with water does help in indicating where, if any ,the leaks are.
Regarding the feet they are white to match the radiator. This is not the same rads as I have been testing.

Hello Bogart,

Thanks for replying to my message.

I did ask whether You were filling the Radiator with water and the pressurising it with Compressed Air - as I am sure you know that is a FAR Safer method than using just Compressed Air.

You are correct that there would not be much Air in the Radiator on your Tests because you can pressurise a volume of water but it cannot be compressed.

IF You did use just Compressed Air at quite a high pressure and there was an Air leak you would definitely be able to hear where it was coming from.

Your Testing method seems perfectly acceptable - I hope that you were not offended by my questions and comments - I was also thinking about future readers of your thread / messages regarding my `Safety concerns`.

Chris

 

[Bogart]

Heck no offence taken at all . Water makes sense not only from the safety point of view. If there is a leak and say one looked at it after a few hours and the pressure has gone at least with water one would know from whence it came.