Concealed cistern with pneumatic button issue.

[The Bedwetter]

I am having a slight difficulty with a concealed WC cistern enclosure (I am pretty sure it is a Grohe) which is operated by a pneumatic push-button (no logo). Upon removing the tiled sections that conceal the cistern I am able to get the WC to flush simply by pressing down on the flush-valve tube. By blowing down the tube when removed from the button end I can also get the flush to operate.

From this I assumed that the bellows had failed inside the push-button. Anyway I have taken this apart to find that there actually is no bellows. Do some of these setups work without a bellows as part of the kit? I am pretty mystified at the moment so would much appreciate any advice. Also does anyone recognise this type of button?

 

[Chuck]

Do some of these setups work without a bellows as part of the kit? I am pretty mystified at the moment so would much appreciate any advice. Also does anyone recognise this type of button?

It's a piston. Can't see from the photo whether the seal is the thin largest diameter part or the back part of the button. Presumably, whichever one it is (I suspect the former) has become worn or damaged.

 

[Welder]

There is a bellows. It's the bit the pipe connects to inside the cistern. This is a common fault. You can get it working as when you blow you are moving far more air than the button moves. Grohe it is.

 

[The Bedwetter]

Chuck: I think you are correct. There presumably never was a bellows at this end at all and as the piston has become worn is no longer able to move any air down the tube when the button is pressed – I certainly cannot feel any air at the other end of the tube. The difficulty will be trying to obtain a replacement button as there appears nothing of comparable size as they are all much bigger.

Yorkshire Dave: Yes there is a bellows at the cistern end. I even have a spare for this which I might replace anyway as it is a service part.

 

[Chuck]

The difficulty will be trying to obtain a replacement button as there appears nothing of comparable size as they are all much bigger.

If you can't get replacement, consider using a different model of air button mounted somewhere else. Either leave the existing one in situ as a 'dummy' (to puzzle house-guests) or make a neat cover for the hole it leaves.

I hate this sort of gadget. It's a toilet FFS; it needs to work reliably not look beautiful! The damn things only just work when new and a couple of years later there are no parts available. Grrrghhh...

 

[Welder]

If you can't get replacement, consider using a different model of air button mounted somewhere else. Either leave the existing one in situ as a 'dummy' (to puzzle house-guests) or make a neat cover for the hole it leaves.

I hate this sort of gadget. It's a toilet FFS; it needs to work reliably not look beautiful! The damn things only just work when new and a couple of years later there are no parts available. Grrrghhh...

What are you talking about! If you are going to comment, make sure it's constructive or stay quiet.

For your information, not that facts interest you, spares are available.

 

[Chuck]

What are you talking about! If you are going to comment, make sure it's constructive or stay quiet.

For your information, not that facts interest you, spares are available.

It was the OP who said he wasn't able to find a replacement (post 4). So, take your own excellent advice and instead of starting an argument with me, provide a the OP with a part number and stockist.

 

[JCplumb]

GROHE DAL SINGLE FLUSH 38488 PUSH AIR BUTTON FOR FLUSHING ADAGIO CISTERN CP | eBay
Fits a 45mm hole.

 

[Welder]

It was the OP who said he wasn't able to find a replacement (post 4). So, take your own excellent advice and instead of starting an argument with me, provide a the OP with a part number and stockist.

Chuck. I'm sorry. I apologise. 🙁
I was a d1ck to pick on you as you didn't deserve it. FWIW I saw you as the OP 😡

Actually, I decline to provide it. We use our experience and give away for free what has cost us thousands of hours to accumulate. Part of the right of passage for DIY is investigating and from that learning. The OP has had confirmed that spares are available and the manufacturer. Now it's time for them to do some work. 😉

 

[The Bedwetter]

Chuck: I have had a trawl through the interweb but seem unable to find an equivalent button of the same proportion. This is a pain in the back-passage as I can see that I may probably have to core out a larger hole in the porcelain tile to accommodate the conventionally larger Grohe button - these seem to come with a 63mm diameter (see below).

JC: Cannot possibly see on your link where it confirms a 45mm size. If this is the case, JC, it solves my problem. The only link I have for the 38488 button where it does state the diameter specifies 63mm: Grohe Air Button 38488

Yorkshire Dave: I am not quite sure that I understand the references “DIY”. No worries, I will give Mr Grohe a call in the morning.

 

[Welder]

BW. Oh bl00dy hell. Yet another apology 🙁 Sorry bud. Long day short brain...

Now I've properly looked at that button, I'd say it wasn't a Grohe. It just doesn't have the ring of quality Grohe stuff used to have (as its old).

Grohe are genuinely helpful so I think I'd email them with a pic and see what they say.

Apart from that, perhaps trawl tinterweb for pneumatic buttons? All you're looking to do is move a small amount of air cos that bellows is pretty small and won't take too much to fill it. Fitting a larger push button may require you to drill a tiny hole in the back side so you do not overstretch the bellows with too much air. You may need to talk to Germany about that but they love, or did, that kind of enquiry bless 'em. Worse case is they'll explain how much air you are looking to move from the button to the bellows to assist you in your tinterweb search. 😎

 

[The Bedwetter]

No worries, Dave, all is forgiven. I do believe you have nailed it, though, as this item cannot actually be a Grohe product as frankly it looks a tad poundshop. I will take your advice and have a plough through the web first of all but the points you raise about capacity of air for the given bellows are very useful. Reckon I will be on the dog & bone to Germany soon. Thanks again. 🙂

 

[Ben-gee]

It is definitely a grohe adagio cistern, so just get the button for that. If it’s 63mm instead of 45mm no problem just enlarge the hole - it’s when it’s the opposite way around that you have to get inventive!

 

[JCplumb]

JC: Cannot possibly see on your link where it confirms a 45mm size. If this is the case, JC, it solves my problem. The only link I have for the 38488 button where it does state the diameter specifies 63mm: Grohe Air Button 38488

It says it on the grohe website Air button | GROHE. Look at the Q&As.

 

[The Bedwetter]

You are quite right, JC. Thanks for this. Also found this diagram which confirms your point. Button now ordered.