D.I.Y Gas Work!!Calling All GAS SAFE ENGINEERS!!!!!

[Hardy1]

Im sick of hearing, Family Killed, CO Killing, Child Death, Gas Explosionn!!, ALL OF ITT!!,, especially after reading this months issue of registered gas installer magazine, WHY!!!!, what is wrong with these people out there that do not care about putting sumones life at risk??, let alone changing parts in there own boilers(Threads old and new Posted) and putting there own families at rise, do these people not understand CARBON MONOXIDEE!! will kill you quicker then it takes a murderer to break into your House, theres people out there that still have not got a clue that gas work must be done by a COMPETENT REGISTEREDD!! GAS SAFE ENGINEER!, where is it all going wrong??, i think the government and HSE! need to have a rethink on new methods of advertising to communities that DIY! Gas work is illegal and will kill, put in the news, on TV, In the Newspapers nationally, advertise more, post flyers all over communities make more people aware that what COWBOYS!! out there are doing is wrong, how many more people are going to get hurt or let alone killed, it makes me think how sumone can just let any tom,dick or harry do something that will kill you and then not give a bleeminn care in the world on what happens when they walk out of that door-all i can say to all the cowboys out there imagine if it was YOU!, imagine if it was your family, i hope people will realise i seriousely hope they will. Good Day.

 

[mountainman]

Could have been sorted years ago if you could only buy a gas appliance or appliance spare (even the most trivial) upon production of a registered installers card.

 

[ecowarm]

widen this thread to cover all appliancies, gas, LPG, oil, solid fuel. Carbon monoxide is a killer. The worst thing at the moment in my opinion is the DIY/ Cowboy fitting of wood/ solid fuel burning stoves. People dont realise they give off the same fumes as a gas boiler.

Gas you have the aditional risk of explosion I know, but the main killer is CO

 

[southcoastboile]

I think gas safe should be doing more as welll as the government especialy seeing as we all pay them alot of money.

 

[Barry98]

money money money thays why on both sides

 

[diamondgas]

I don't think you'll ever stop the home DIYer giving it a go themselves! Advising on the outcomes through the media is about all anyone can ask for IMO.

 

[Howsie]

Spot on. It's ignorance that is killing these people and their families/loved ones. Sadly people are dying/getting sick because of CO poisoning all the time but the blood thirsty press don't care for these stories.

 

[Barry98]

press love a bad guy it sells , blame blame blame wheteher its right or wrong, imho this once great country is not run by the goverment is controlled by the media

 

[Hardy1]

its like i was in screwfix last wednesday, and i see this couple. buying everything to install a gas cooker(you can tell right just buy looking at the materials) Cooker hose, gas ptfe, LDF, rothenberger superfire torch with bottle and just laughing what else do we need, i wasnt the only gas guy in there was about 2 others and we all looked at each other like :| in the end 1 of us ended up going over to them and telling them what your doing is illegal etc etc, and they just did not care at all im not going to say the abuse they were shouting but i think you all know what im saying, oh and there was a new born with them too, this just makes me so angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.. now breathee..

 

[Hardy1]

Spot on. It's ignorance that is killing these people and their families/loved ones. Sadly people are dying/getting sick because of CO poisoning all the time but the blood thirsty press don't care for these stories.

Oh yes of course for the press its another story right!!, another day another pound!!! but in the end its another life gone.

 

[mountainman]

Why don't we all let our registrations lapse and go into the black economy. Unlikely we'd harm anyone but we'd save a few bob and be on a level playing field with the cowboys.
After all, they can't jail us all!

 

[Howsie]

Not a bad idea at all.

 

[diamondgas]

Some people will drive over the speed limit, some will drive under the influence. Some folk will turn their hand to just about anything rather than pay a professional! Did you know that more than 600 people died in 2010 falling down stairs in the UK and more than 50 falling off a ladder? HSE stats say that approx 15/year die from CO poisoning! I wonder how many of those are caused by the DIYer/Cowboy? I'd assume not all 🙂

Not to detract from your original post Hardy1 as it is a serious issue especially for the families involved. However given the stats maybe folk should be dissuaded from buying paint rather than a cooker kit lol ... it appears more likely that they'll come to harm there 🙂

In my opinion gas boilers are now more intrinsically safe than ever before! It'd take some real dodgy work to get yourself exposed to CO from todays central heating boilers! However anything open flued or flueless is a different kettle of fish 🙂 :chillpill:

 

[ecowarm]

Carbon monoxide poisoning - Live Well - NHS Choices NHS say 50 die from CO possoining, is there a cover up going on?

 

[benfisher]

My ACS is due in 11 months and to be honest with the current climate, being undercut by people fitting new boilers for £150 and undercutting me on servicing by doing the for £30 i'm in two minds whether to continue doing gas and just concentrate on the plumbing side. Seems we have a huge responsibility doing gas work safely and legally and are fully accountable if we make mistakes, while any numpy can go into B&Q and buy all the necessary parts to fit what ever they want.

 

[mountainman]

In my opinion gas boilers are now more intrinsically safe than ever before! It'd take some real dodgy work to get yourself exposed to CO from todays central heating boilers! However anything open flued or flueless is a different kettle of fish

I agree in part but the 'flue leaking condensate' thread I started proved to be due to the flue being incorrectly installed and only being discovered when the boxing was removed to expose the flue run.
this job is in one house on a large estate built six years ago by a national building company.
I estimate that there are a hundred identical houses in this develoent.
If the standard of flue work is similar on only ten per cent of them that could mean many ID's.

If Gas Safe want the addresses, please PM me!
MM

 

[desrob]

diamond fella sitting on the fence,the ultimate pro. fella spouting lyrically nonsense,free speech and all that,complain about people starving in a third world country,but your not mother teresa are you,what about ladder manfactures,but your not quality control on a busy factory line,your a gas fitter,all trained up(debatable),all paid up and you've got no work,feeling bitter is a normal human trait, keeping it in check can be difficult a times,especially when confronted by

 

[desrob]

Carbon monoxide poisoning - Live Well - NHS Choices NHS say 50 die from CO possoining, is there a cover up going on?

cars ars major factor

 

[Syty]

But there is plenty of builders doing gas DIY. I spoke to one back in time and he did not know what manometer is or U gauge. He was checking for leaks with lighter. LOL

 

[Barry98]

used to be done with a candle back in the day

 

[mountainman]

used to be done with a candle back in the day

You was posh, tinderbox and flint for me!

 

[ambrosia]

Gas safe cant even stop up all the dodgy fitters who are registered, what hope do they have going after the DIYers

still its a good idea only allowing gas registered people being able to purchase gas appliances

 

[Barry98]

Gas safe cant even stop up all the dodgy fitters who are registered, what hope do they have going after the DIYers

still its a good idea only allowing gas registered people being able to purchase gas appliances

our local biuld centre treid it a few year back lasted about a month , clearly sales were down

 

[bob the plumber]

I think every article i have read over the last month involves a gsr engineer killing a customer through installing to a poor unsafe standard, it aint just the DIY ers, I think the whole 'gas work' competent or not needs a good shake up and kick up the back side

 

[Barry98]

yea not helping ourselves with press like that , added with tv shows etc,

 

[ambrosia]

our local biuld centre treid it a few year back lasted about a month , clearly sales were down

shows how wide spread those DIYers are

 

[mountainman]

I think every article i have read over the last month involves a gsr engineer killing a customer through installing to a poor unsafe standard, it aint just the DIY ers, I think the whole 'gas work' competent or not needs a good shake up and kick up the back side

Dunno what publication your reading but I don't recall any incidents of GSR engineers killing their customers other than One moderately publicised event.
Everyone makes mistakes but there is more chance of being struck by lightning than being injured by a GS engineer.

 

[wheeto]

shows how wide spread those DIYers are

Or GSR engineers who don't want to go buying their customers' boilers for them. Lots of small businesses would prefer to stay under the VAT threshold.

 

[Pssst]

It is my view that simply being GSR does not mean you are competent and above reproach.

The only thing that matters is high quality training ,coaching by highly skilled and experienced fellow engineers,legitimate and correct assessments and examinations and ongoing support whilst you learn the profession.

Instead what we have is a system in which training centres receive bungs in exchange for bits of paper.

There is nothing in law to say someone cannot do their own gas work and the only time they may have to demonstrate competency is when something goes wrong.

IMHO the only thing GSR does at the moment is provide a modicum of training and knowledge and also acts as a form of protectionism for the trade.

The latter is the most important bit for me.

 

[glenno1]

firms like screwfix can demand to see a gas safe card but they dont because they would rather sell than keep people safe imo

 

[mountainman]

All it needs is a law prohibiting the sale of gas appliances, gas appliance spares and associated items to non GSR cardholders.

This country is awash with laws, why not add this common sense one!!!

 

[Barry98]

MONEY , MONEY , MOENY mountain , would be intresting to see a figure on parts alone for illegal works

 

[wheeto]

why not add this common sense one!!!

Perhaps because it's not so "common sense" really?

 

[mountainman]

There's much more money in selling firearms bod but it's illegal to buy them or their component parts without a licence.

 

[mountainman]

Perhaps because it's not so "common sense" really?

Why not?

 

[wheeto]

Why not?

Dual use parts for starters?

Then comparative legislation ... you run the risk of shutting Halfords down before long.

Not to mention the legion of one-man-band GSR engineers who don't want to be buying £1000 boilers themselves for each job and going through the VAT threshold.

 

[mountainman]

I disagree

What dual use gas line components are there?

Dunno about Halfords, I've never bought any boiler spares there.

Last point, Seemples! GSR takes customer or customer's cash to merchants and buys whatever is needed.

 

[Barry98]

There's much more money in selling firearms bod but it's illegal to buy them or their component parts without a licence.

but same as gas stuff mate it happens as has and always will.

or we could start a pertition up to send to number 10

 

[wheeto]

What dual use gas line components are there?

Copper tube. Fittings, compression & solder.

Dunno about Halfords, I've never bought any boiler spares there.

Yeah, well I'm sure you know what the point there is.

Last point, Seemples! GSR takes customer or customer's cash to merchants and buys whatever is needed.

Well on the basis that you can't take the customer's cash without declaring it as part of your turnover, you're left with the option of two people going to the store together. How do you propose to charge for that, seeing as you can't put a % on materials with the customer with you? Your normal hourly rate?

 

[mountainman]

Not fussed about putting % on materials tbh.

My guarantee and purchase support is included in my labour rate and the appliance guarantee is held by the customer which is supported by me.

I'd rather do it this way than buy materials on my account and have the cust go broke and leave me with nothing but a debt.

Been there, done that, got the tee shirt, the book and the video. Never Again!

 

[wheeto]

I'd rather do it this way than buy materials on my account ...

Exactly, so rather than sending the customer off to buy his boiler, you'll now have to spend at least an hour accompanying him to the merchant. How will you account for / charge for this time?

 

[dancinplumba]

would add my penneth but its an open forum 🙂

 

[mountainman]

Exactly, so rather than sending the customer off to buy his boiler, you'll now have to spend at least an hour accompanying him to the merchant. How will you account for / charge for this time?

Thought I'd covered that point in my earlier post!

I have never felt the need to charge for every moment of my time, sometimes I even do stuff for free (gasp!).

 

[mountainman]

would add my penneth but its an open forum 🙂

Go on, you know it makes sense 🙂

 

[dancinplumba]

Go on, you know it makes sense 🙂

what is ?

 

[wheeto]

Thought I'd covered that point in my earlier post!

I have never felt the need to charge for every moment of my time, sometimes I even do stuff for free (gasp!).

Oh, sorry - I misunderstood that bit. My general point, though, is that something as simple as "ban all sales of gas-related items to members of the public" is actually a gross simplification of what would have to be done. And even though you enjoy your customers' company enough to wander to the shops with them 😛 others might not.

All this for what is probably a very marginal public safety benefit.

 

[dancinplumba]

the issue with making it illegal is the same as the drug laws, there will be a black market for gas parts and apps, its demand and supply
imo

 

[mountainman]

the issue with making it illegal is the same as the drug laws, there will be a black market for gas parts and apps, its demand and supply
imo

Psst!
Ive got a van load of hooky LDF going at below cost.
Anyone interested?

 

[dancinplumba]

Psst!
Ive got a van load of hooky LDF going at below cost.
Anyone interested?

as long as the 'price is right'....that was a tv show i think

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Im sick of hearing, Family Killed, CO Killing, Child Death, Gas Explosionn!!, ALL OF ITT!!,, especially after reading this months issue of registered gas installer magazine, WHY!!!!, what is wrong with these people out there that do not care about putting sumones life at risk??, let alone changing parts in there own boilers(Threads old and new Posted) and putting there own families at rise, do these people not understand CARBON MONOXIDEE!! will kill you quicker then it takes a murderer to break into your House, theres people out there that still have not got a clue that gas work must be done by a COMPETENT REGISTEREDD!! GAS SAFE ENGINEER!, where is it all going wrong??, i think the government and HSE! need to have a rethink on new methods of advertising to communities that DIY! Gas work is illegal and will kill, put in the news, on TV, In the Newspapers nationally, advertise more, post flyers all over communities make more people aware that what COWBOYS!! out there are doing is wrong, how many more people are going to get hurt or let alone killed, it makes me think how sumone can just let any tom,dick or harry do something that will kill you and then not give a bleeminn care in the world on what happens when they walk out of that door-all i can say to all the cowboys out there imagine if it was YOU!, imagine if it was your family, i hope people will realise i seriousely hope they will. Good Day.

I have read all the posts and think that you guys are delluded - but I have been too.

Gas Safe Register exists to protect the public from competent and incompetent installers. So they have to make a big deal about illegals and CO incidents to justfy the tens of £millions they take of hard-working self employed firms.

The most valid idea I read on the posts, was to de-regulate the gas sector.

I cannot compete with the registered installers, because there are 50 within a mile of my house; never mind the illegals.

These points are made before we even go into what competence means, and whether an ACS is a reliable measure.

We have been stictched up good and proper - so its time to start wake up and consider who the winners and losers are in this.

Note - FE teachers have reject their licence to practice with their governing body IfL. Thus, IfL dropped the fee to £18 a year for some part-timers - however, this will probably not be taken up.

Hence, there is a good chance that those assessing you for competence in gas, within the FE sector that have either failed to register with their governing body - or have not fullfilled their committment to registering their cpd.

And there we are paying out for ACS every five years - and registration of £200 every year, plus analyser, course and goodness knows what else - CO detectors strapped to our tool box!

 

[Pssst]

Psst!
Ive got a van load of hooky LDF going at below cost.
Anyone interested?

I dont need any. I've got loads plus a surveyor 1000 🙂