Dispute With Customer

[SamPDP]

Hello All

I run a small property maintenance and development company, and one of our closest colleagues is an excellent plumber with whom we do many boiler changes and bathroom installations.

Recently our plumber has been in dispute with a customer of her own, who is attempting to make a claim against her insurance on the grounds that, two years ago, she fitted a bath tap for them and forgot to put a washer in, causing damage to their property. Now, they claim that the damage was caused over the course of the two years and that they only recently uncovered the damage, but it is my understanding that if you fail to put a washer in a tap, water kind of sprays out everywhere. I removed the washer from my bath tap and turned it on, and found water going everywhere. So I struggle to think that the customer took two years to notice this! Surely water would have flooded out under the bath panel at the very least?

The customer had an inspection carried out by a builder, who confirmed the missing washer (naturally my plumber was not invited to the inspection). My plumber's insurers have investigated and refused to pay out, saying that they basically do not believe the customer. The customer's story has now changed, saying that there was a washer but that is was fitted "incorrectly" - I'm not sure that you can even fit a washer incorrectly, there's not many options for failure, apart from the fact that my plumber has been doing this for over 10 years without any other problems at all.

Any comments/views? It looks like the customer is going to take my plumber to court and naturally we will be supporting her, so anything helpful at this stage from the forum community will be appreciated. Please ask me any questions you like.

Best wishes
Sam

 

[kay-jay]

your assumptions are correct.
they are simply trying it on!

 

[rpm]

More likely a diy gone wrong

 

[mfgs]

It does certainly sound like they are trying it on. The fact that your plumbers insurers have investigated and are refusing to pay says it all to me. I would personally welcome the day in court and enjoy my victory over a chancer.

 

[Ray Stafford]

and forgot to put a washer in, causing damage to their property.

The customer's story has now changed, saying that there was a washer but that is was fitted "incorrectly"

Are they talking about the washer in the tap (which is what we automatically think of) or the washer in the tap-connector.

This story makes more sense if there was a minor problem with the tap connector washer, which could theoretically have leaked quietly away for 2 years, depending where the water was going.

 

[SimonG]

Probably a failed fibre washer that failed quite recently to cause the damage and cust is clutching at straws to blame somebody. Crap happens and its not always somebodys fault.

 

[Masood]

Probably a failed fibre washer that failed quite recently to cause the damage and cust is clutching at straws to blame somebody. Crap happens and its not always somebodys fault.

I agree that's the most likely scenario. The fact that your plumber was not allowed to inspect the problem will also go against the claimant.

 

[hammers4spanner]

i have paid out on my insurance recently and it can be quite costly on your following year

does sound like a cust trying it on and i would tell them to take me to court

 

[oz-plumber]

Hi Sam,

Just a query to clarify, when you refer to 'her' in you post.

Is your plumber a female?
Is the customer you refer to a female?
or are both females?

Not that this is an issue, but I cannot decipher the difference between the customer and your plumber in your OP.

You state your customer is going to take the plumber to court and you will be supporting 'her'.
Who is 'her' that you are going to be supporting?

Either way, the insurance company has fobbed it off, so let the customer battle it out with the plumbers insurance company and the builder that declared the fault being the plumbers.

The insurance company has more time and money to spend on the court case than you and your plumber do, so let them sort it out.
The more you and your plumber get involved from here on in will add to your detriment and to your financial well being.

As hard as the situation is, let the situation resolve itself without your involement.

Someone is going to get screwed, let the courts who that is!.

Don't lose sleep over the situation and let the insurance company's sort out the liabilities.

What's the worst you or your plumber will be up for - your excess.

Leave it at that.

PS: been there and done that. This is the best and easiest solution.

Oz Plumber

 

[hammers4spanner]

good point by oz plumbs

why did they get a builder to inspect??

how are they qualified in plumbing?

surely you would get a plumber to inspect

 

[Anton]

Where's the proof that it has been leaking for 2 years, and who guarantees their work for 2 years ?
This sounds like a load of b******t. The fact that the story's changed from no washer, to badly fitted washer won't have done the claim any favours. It should be treated as wear and tear, and the owner should claim for any repairs from their house building/contents insurance like any normal rational person would. It could be that the owner has a history of frivolous insurance claims which might explain the refusal to pay out by the insurance company.
When it gets thrown out of court, make sure your plumber puts in a claim for time/expenses associated with this case against the house owner.

 

[stevetheplumber]

its one of those unfortunate things that comes with owning a property things fail
changing story from no washer to badly fitted washer sounds like someone grasping at straws to avoid paying
also its possible the washer was defective from new which then involves the supplier and the the manufacturer
i cant imagine a scenario where a dripping tap con could run for 2 years and do much damage without it being noticable it therefore must be ground floor and what damage could it have done there?

 

[AWheating]

I had new brakes fitted to my car 2 years ago, now they dont work, ive checked them and the pads hardly have any material on them. Its the garages fault, they fitted pads which were faulty............. ive only used my car every day and done 40,000 miles.


oh and my mate has a t shirt that reads im with stupid 🙂

 

[Best]

Seen a few leaks left by plumbers that have been going for a few years sometimes & they didn't show at all until ceiling cracked. So it does happen.
It could be the fibre washer on the tap fitting or I have seen a lot of taps that have no washer or sealant fitted between them & the sink or bath, resulting in any water from showering etc to drip for years.
A lot of baths have far too big diameter holes for bath taps & need to be careful fitting tap centred.
Sounds like this woman is a chancer though.

 

[glasgowplumber]

She's at it, changing her story and not letting the plumber be there on inspection = chancer.

That said, anything is possible but such is life. Customer/claimant won't win

 

[Ermintrude]

The fact that she wasn't called or asked to attend is spurious enough already, fact they asked a builder round.............

 

[newcastle phill]

If theyve changed their story with insurers aint no way insurance will pay out.
Hell will freeze over 1st...

 

[rowdy]

It is possible that a damaged washer was fitted or a good washer was distorted during installation. Either way, a good plumber would have underaken a leak test overnight to check everthing was watertight before completing any finishes, so it seems unlikley unless the work was rushed.

 

[zzzjim]

Unless the tap span on the basin , from peculiar activities in the sink !

 

[Millsy 82]

It is possible that a damaged washer was fitted or a good washer was distorted during installation. Either way, a good plumber would have underaken a leak test overnight to check everthing was watertight before completing any finishes, so it seems unlikley unless the work was rushed.

So if you went and installed a set of taps you would install them then go back the next day to check for leaks?

If they have changed their story it will get thrown out of court (If it even gets there) and the fact that you were not asked back to repair leak will go against them.

 

[SimonG]

So if you went and installed a set of taps you would install them then go back the next day to check for leaks?

If they have changed their story it will get thrown out of court (If it even gets there) and the fact that you were not asked back to repair leak will go against them.

I wouldn't, unless I was supposed to be there. It would be change taps, tidy up, check still dry, paid and gone.

 

[rpm]

Think this might well reach court as its a civil suit against the plumber because the insurance company have rejected the claim, I would talk to the insurance company after all they are your insurance company not hers (I believe thats how I read it) and ask them if they have anything that could help your defence ie past records of dodgy claims etc.

 

[lame plumber]

It is possible that a damaged washer was fitted or a good washer was distorted during installation. Either way, a good plumber would have underaken a leak test overnight to check everthing was watertight before completing any finishes, so it seems unlikley unless the work was rushed.

so what happens if you just do a tap swap? your idea is a bit ott imho as any leak normally shows immediately, so in your opinion are the bulk of us bad plumbers?

 

[WaterTight]

yeah.

dry joints thoroughly after completion.

on mains, give it a couple of minutes and check. tank fed perhaps 5. any leak after that would be due to movement of tap or very bad luck.

when i first started i used to rush a lot due to the bloke i was learning from being a rusher. then once, after doing up a tap con with a fibre washer and only checking it was still dry after about 30 seconds from turning water on, i left it. i then had to return ten mins later as we forgot something. checked it again and it was wet. never forgot that.

 

[rpm]

yeah.

dry joints thoroughly after completion.

on mains, give it a couple of minutes and check. tank fed perhaps 5. any leak after that would be due to movement of tap or very bad luck.

when i first started i used to rush a lot due to the bloke i was learning from being a rusher. then once, after doing up a tap con with a fibre washer and only checking it was still dry after about 30 seconds from turning water on, i left it. i then had to return ten mins later as we forgot something. checked it again and it was wet. never forgot that.

Hence your user name lol

 

[plumben]

It is possible that a damaged washer was fitted or a good washer was distorted during installation. Either way, a good plumber would have underaken a leak test overnight to check everthing was watertight before completing any finishes, so it seems unlikley unless the work was rushed.

A leak test over night, if on mains pressure there'd be water coming out the down stairs lights,
I usually do up joints turn main on, check for leaks, then check 5-10 minutes later and maybe once more later if I done a tap install and turned up the next day to check for leaks I wouldn't expect to get paid ...

 

[Rich8]

Sounds to me like the builder is filling the customers head full of carp . No way can you come back on someone two years later and prove it's bad workmanship typical builder think they know every trade and as for leaving a tap connector over night then going back to check it priceless !!!

 

[Best]

Sounds to me like the builder is filling the customers head full of carp . No way can you come back on someone two years later and prove it's bad workmanship typical builder think they know every trade and as for leaving a tap connector over night then going back to check it priceless !!!

You got in just before me! :smile:
Was just thinking over the story again these last few seconds & I thought to myself exact same thing - I bet this started with the builder coming in & telling the woman it was shoddy workmanship, plumbers fault, deserved to be sued, etc! Maybe it has backfired on the builder a bit & now he is being asked to back the owner up in court?
Don't think the word of a builder should, or will be taken about plumbing to a court. It would need a plumbing engineer with qualifications to be able to be an 'expert ' on plumbing to be a proper expert witness in a court.
Just imagine him standing in a court waiting to give evidence & the judge asking him first what was his plumbing experience & qualifications. :grin:

 

[deandive]

got a builder to check it out , pmsl just as well get the newsagent and trafic warden round for a butchers lol. as for going round the next day to check not on the same planet I live on ;-)

 

[brum]

Och Aye Jock Mackay there will always be these kind of low life tryers saw loads whilst working certain kinds of HA and council tenants trying to get a claim anyway and anywhere.
Im not a snob I am a HA tenant myself .Rant Over..brum errgghh!!!!