DIY Gas Fitting

[Admin]

DIY Gas fitting is not recommending. This includes the installation of Gas appliances such as cookers and fires etc.

Always use a gas safe registered plumber for all your Gas plumbing requirements.

 

[fuzzy]

In regards to competency with gas an individual is only competent if they have been deemed competent by a governing body
Gas Installations in a individuals home if carried out by an unqualified homeowner are still classed as illegal installations but these would only come to light if there was a unsafe situation or incident.

not if competent

 

[the baker]

Have you considered hanging the boiler your self,

Plumbing in the water bits (hot, cold, flow & return, condensate run, PRV tube) and having opened up the hole for the flue, get in a local RGI to finish it off at a reasonable price?

Tim

 

[PlumbBobBob]

Have you considered hanging the boiler your self,

Plumbing in the water bits (hot, cold, flow & return, condensate run, PRV tube) and having opened up the hole for the flue, get in a local RGI to finish it off at a reasonable price?

Tim

all the jobs you mention are jobs to be completed legally only by a gas safe engineer

 

[dancinplumba]

and i as an rgi wouldn't touch it with a barge pole even if i was skint

 

[the baker]

all the jobs you mention are jobs to be completed legally only by a gas safe engineer

Some folks may disagree with you.

Tim

 

[the baker]

and i as an rgi wouldn't touch it with a barge pole even if i was skint

More work for other people then.

Tim

 

[dancinplumba]

More work for other people then.

Tim

i dont mind at all 🙂

 

[the baker]

The thing we all have to accept is the fact that when ever we get to work on an appliance previously imstalled by some one else, we are obliged to commission it.

We dont assume its been done by a Registered Gas Installer just because the pipeworks neat.

So the benifit of doing a job where the householder, in this instance Gazultra is being honist and upfont about his lack of Job Licence, is that we are probably less likely to miss something.


I am not trying to be arguementative just thinking it may be better if we work with the unregistered than unknowingly work for them.

Tim


PS is Barlic still east of Preston, down the M65?

 

[Bernie2]

The thing we all have to accept is the fact that when ever we get to work on an appliance previously imstalled by some one else, we are obliged to commission it.

We dont assume its been done by a Registered Gas Installer just because the pipeworks neat.

So the benifit of doing a job where the householder, in this instance Gazultra is being honist and upfont about his lack of Job Licence, is that we are probably less likely to miss something.


I am not trying to be arguementative just thinking it may be better if we work with the unregistered than unknowingly work for them.

Tim


PS is Barlic still east of Preston, down the M65?

Yes its true. When we first go to service or repair an already installed gas installation or appliance we have no idea who installed it or how it was installed. Our job is to ensure it is installed properly. So it makes no sense not to service or certify a system.

 

[Puddle]

The thing we all have to accept is the fact that when ever we get to work on an appliance previously imstalled by some one else, we are obliged to commission it.

We dont assume its been done by a Registered Gas Installer just because the pipeworks neat.

So the benifit of doing a job where the householder, in this instance Gazultra is being honist and upfont about his lack of Job Licence, is that we are probably less likely to miss something.


I am not trying to be arguementative just thinking it may be better if we work with the unregistered than unknowingly work for them.

Tim


PS is Barlic still east of Preston, down the M65?

Can see what you are saying and agree it could be argued you are better knowing the history of an installation be it good or bad


Others would say if you are doing your job properly,it does not matter ,as you will find any problems anyway

I just wanted to make the point ,that,we should indeed presume an appliance has been installed by a competent person and correctly,this is why no gas inspection is required on any appliance installed until appliance is 1 year old because it is assumed it has been installed correctly by the powers that be.

As for obligation,I am only obliged to carry out the works I wish

Learn't that years ago,when corgi insisted I should issue a gsr without labeling the boiler min ''at risk'',when sited in the shower area over a bath,they said,electrical side maybe a problem,gas is ok !Told customer the same,she screamed at me as I walked off down the path,giving her no paperwork

imho

 

[Bernie2]

Yes, I would agree with that. I have had some real problems with that, when working as an operative for large housing associations on their housing stock. They want to keep the tenant happy and they do not want to spend money they feel they may not have too. The pressure on both you as the operative and the company you work for, can be tremendous to pass work you may not feel comfortable with passing. In your scenario even CORGI would not back you, yet who would take the blame if it went wrong? Please God it never did of course. I often think the protection of employed gas service operatives is nowhere near good enough to stop the many pressures excerted on them from both companies and clients.

 

[dancinplumba]

The thing we all have to accept is the fact that when ever we get to work on an appliance previously imstalled by some one else, we are obliged to commission it.

We dont assume its been done by a Registered Gas Installer just because the pipeworks neat.

So the benifit of doing a job where the householder, in this instance Gazultra is being honist and upfont about his lack of Job Licence, is that we are probably less likely to miss something.


I am not trying to be arguementative just thinking it may be better if we work with the unregistered than unknowingly work for them.

Tim


PS is Barlic still east of Preston, down the M65?

think so, unless they have moved it 🙂

 

[fuzzy]

The thing we all have to accept is the fact that when ever we get to work on an appliance previously imstalled by some one else, we are obliged to commission it.

We dont assume its been done by a Registered Gas Installer just because the pipeworks neat.

So the benifit of doing a job where the householder, in this instance Gazultra is being honist and upfont about his lack of Job Licence, is that we are probably less likely to miss something.


I am not trying to be arguementative just thinking it may be better if we work with the unregistered than unknowingly work for them.

Tim


PS is Barlic still east of Preston, down the M65?

or better still get the work done by a competent person or rgi

 

[goz666]

Just read all 12 pages and am still not sure what is competent and what isn't ..lol..I read somewhere a few years ago that a guy down south of 25 years BG experience was working in the industry and refused to join CORGI. Went on to say that he challenged CORGI to take him to court and prove he was incompetent, advice given to him was that unless he'd caused an accident or they could prove his work was not up to standard they would lose and so they just ignored him and he carried on regardless. Anyone else remember this and know the outcome ????

 

[fuzzy]

Just read all 12 pages and am still not sure what is competent and what isn't ..lol..I read somewhere a few years ago that a guy down south of 25 years BG experience was working in the industry and refused to join CORGI. Went on to say that he challenged CORGI to take him to court and prove he was incompetent, advice given to him was that unless he'd caused an accident or they could prove his work was not up to standard they would lose and so they just ignored him and he carried on regardless. Anyone else remember this and know the outcome ????

but he was still breaking the law if he was working for gain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[goz666]

but he was still breaking the law if he was working for gain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd say it was up to CORGI to prove his incompetence, if they can't prove that he ain't breaking the law imo. I think they knew that and that's why they never took him to court. How can anyone prove incompetence unless they can gather evidence of such i.e. accidents, poor workmanship ??
From experience judges listen to facts, and I would really like to see Gassafe prove this in court once and for all or change the wording.
We all know it should say only person's with the relevant ACS qualifications and registered with the governing body are legal to carry out Gas work, there must be a financial reason for them not doing this ???

 

[fuzzy]

I'd say it was up to CORGI to prove his incompetence, if they can't prove that he ain't breaking the law imo. I think they knew that and that's why they never took him to court. How can anyone prove incompetence unless they can gather evidence of such i.e. accidents, poor workmanship ??
From experience judges listen to facts, and I would really like to see Gassafe prove this in court once and for all or change the wording.
We all know it should say only person's with the relevant ACS qualifications and registered with the governing body are legal to carry out Gas work, there must be a financial reason for them not doing this ???

im not suggesting he is or is not competent, but it is quite clear, to work for gain ie.employed or self employed you not only need to be competent but registered. If he isnt registered he aint legal

 

[Bernie2]

Its interesting, but when you think about it, many registered gas fitters with qualifications have probably made mistakes as well as those without. What really matters is the quality of the work produced not if the person who did it is qualified or not. The presumptions is that if you are qualified you should be competent of turning out good work. So qualification is based upon presumption not proven ability. But companies get paid for their work not their qualification, its probably why a well qualified 3 month course person has problems getting employment with companies. The companies assume they have no experience of turning out good work.

The thing is you can't really know if they can turn out good work, until you see some of it. So what if you went to a site and saw good work from a none qualified person and good work from a qualified person. Which one would you pass if you did not know which engineer was qualified and which was not?

Obviously you would have to pass both.

 

[fuzzy]

I'd say it was up to CORGI to prove his incompetence, if they can't prove that he ain't breaking the law imo. I think they knew that and that's why they never took him to court. How can anyone prove incompetence unless they can gather evidence of such i.e. accidents, poor workmanship ??
From experience judges listen to facts, and I would really like to see Gassafe prove this in court once and for all or change the wording.
We all know it should say only person's with the relevant ACS qualifications and registered with the governing body are legal to carry out Gas work, there must be a financial reason for them not doing this ???

have you warned him?

 

[fuzzy]

Its interesting, but when you think about it, many registered gas fitters with qualifications have probably made mistakes as well as those without. What really matters is the quality of the work produced not if the person who did it is qualified or not. The presumptions is that if you are qualified you should be competent of turning out good work. So qualification is based upon presumption not proven ability. But companies get paid for their work not their qualification, its probably why a well qualified 3 month course person has problems getting employment with companies. The companies assume they have no experience of turning out good work.

The thing is you can't really know if they can turn out good work, until you see some of it. So what if you went to a site and saw good work from a none qualified person and good work from a qualified person. Which one would you pass if you did not know which engineer was qualified and which was not?

Obviously you would have to pass both.

you wouldnt be checking a non qualified persons work as they are not registered so wouldnt know!

the regs say you cannot be employed (including self) if you are not registered with gas safe. so regardless of the competence thing you MUST be registered

 

[mountainman]

you wouldnt be checking a non qualified persons work as they are not registered so wouldnt know!

the regs say you cannot be employed (including self) if you are not registered with gas safe. so regardless of the competence thing you MUST be registered

Correct!
End of discussion IMO.

 

[truemanufan]

To just sum up basically, if u do DIY gas installations, you are a clown! End of

 

[ManchesterGas]

You are only deemed 'competent' if you have passed ACS and are registered with Gas Safe

 

[Bernie2]

How can you know when you service a gas system who put it in? How do you know a none ACS apprentice never installed it under supervision?

Many systems over 20 years old where installed by none registered people. It is the standard of work that matter's not qualification. It is true if your paid to do a job you have to be Gas Safe registered but DIYers can still do it in their own home. If you never knew who installed the system you would never know who had done it.

Suppose a gas fitter with 30 years experience installed a system but their registration had lapsed and a three month registered gas fitter installed a system would you fail the 30 year persons system if the systems were both of the same standard?

So you would look to see if it complied with the regulations and pass it, if you never, you would have to declare every system you met ID and turn it off, because you did not know if the person who installed it was ACS or not.

Try that with a big landlord and you will probably soon find yourself out of work. The operative word is "Safe" you are employed to decide whether it is "Safe" or not, not who is qualified or not.

Why do we suppose both CORGI and GAS SAFE want to see your work even after registration and proof of qualification?
A Gas escape is not concerned with regulations but good work makes a system safer. So look at the quality not the qualification.

 

[mountainman]

Who worked on the installation previously is irrelevant.
It is currently the law that anyone who works on gas systems must be GSR. experience and competence are a bonus.

 

[Bernie2]

That is true mountainman. If you get paid for gas work you have to be registered. The operative word is paid. CORGI and Gas Safe both usually inspect your work after registration. Why would they do that if quality of work was not an issue?

If registration and qualification alone where the answer to anything would we have so many car accidents? The reason Gas Safe inspectors are probably
not all over the place inspecting work quality is cost not perhaps because they would not like to be.

Competence is a mute point, I have never asked a doctor if they are competent or asked to see their registration I just assume they are competent because they have set themselves up as a doctor.

I think in English law you have duty of care to be able to do what you say you can.
So if you work on gas you must be able to do so to meet the requirements of The Gas Regs. The blame is on you if you can't whether registered or not. It would be no use claiming "I am qualified as a defence in the case of an accident!" The accident would probably serve as proof you weren't. So quality of work is a big issue.

A bit like a well qualified baker saying "I bake lovely cakes!" How do you know unless you eat one?


That is what companies want "Good work and few if any come backs" Having practical skill knowledge in our heads is not much use to a customer if we can't turn it into real quality work.

 

[fuzzy]

Correct!
End of discussion IMO.

yes it is correct for people 'working' on gas making money. If your doing it for yourself you do not have to be registered, only competent

 

[fuzzy]

You are only deemed 'competent' if you have passed ACS and are registered with Gas Safe

why can you not be competent, passed your ACS and not registered? nothing wrong with doing that and working on your own gas

 

[fuzzy]

To just sum up basically, if u do DIY gas installations, you are a clown! End of

if your competent and do your own DIY installation whats the problem? registered or not, your not breaking any rules are you are working as safe as somebody who is registered

 

[fuzzy]

Who worked on the installation previously is irrelevant.
It is currently the law that anyone who works on gas systems must be GSR. experience and competence are a bonus.

wrong, you dont have to be GSR to work on gas

 

[Bernie2]

Yes fuzzy is right.

Lets be honest, there is nothing stopping people working on gas in their own homes now. Would it not be better if they are proven competent on a short course to recognise that?

I feel sure many ex or unemployed gas fitters would welcome that.

It would not be a case of allowing them to work for money in the full open market place, just their own home and possibly in a relations home for no money, if found to be competent?
It cuts out risk doesn't it, while it does not threaten the livelihoods of others who want to work for money to any great extent?

The idea that all of a sudden thousands of ex-gas fitters willing to work for nothing taking all the work from those that do, would appear seems silly.

And anyway they could not do that as the licence would restrict them to work on only one or two houses as named and stated on the licence. I cannot imagine that being seen as a commercial threat to anybody. It would also perhaps help clear up a grey area.

You have to go careful about what salesmen say about being GSR to promote training courses and the extent it applies.

And I do not promote none GSR working and would recommend everybody be GSR registered if they can afford it. The thing is the costs are so prohibitive that a none working individual would struggle to get back the cost layout.

That is not fair to individuals with few resources, for what is supposedly an imposed safety requirement. Lets not forget ACS are not training they are safety inspections.

Any cost regarding safety should be easily recoverable by everybody possibly by tax breaks or grants.

The likes of BS should only cost a couple of quid for a standard not the high cost they are.

Lets be honest if I said to you "You have got to work safely, but I will charge you thousands of pounds to tell you how!" you would think I was more concerned with my wallet than safety wouldn't you?

We are supposed to be keeping people safe not making a small fortune out of safety.

 

[ecowarm]

Agree with you Bernie all the way

 

[mountainman]

Don't know if this link works but have a look if it does.

[DLMURL]http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2012/coi-e-65.htm[/DLMURL]

Ps, who's making a small fortune???

 

[fuzzy]

Don't know if this link works but have a look if it does.

[DLMURL="http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2012/coi-e-65.htm"]Plumber jailed for carrying out illegal gas work[/DLMURL]

Ps, who's making a small fortune???

yes it is thanks, it backs up what i have been saying, to work as a gas fitter on numerous houses and claim to be registered you are working illegaly. This does not prove in any way that it is illegal to work on your own home if competent to do so

 

[mountainman]

Did you read this bit though?

HSE Inspector Edward Crick said:

"It is against the law for anyone who is not registered with Gas Safe to carry out work on a gas appliance. When unqualified workers try to bypass the law in this way they are not only putting themselves at risk of prosecution, and potentially a large fine or a spell in prison - they are also putting their customers' lives at risk.

The inspector doesn't say anything about competence or working in your own home or for friends & family being acceptable does he.
The first three lines of his statement say it all!

 

[fuzzy]

Did you read this bit though?

HSE Inspector Edward Crick said:

"It is against the law for anyone who is not registered with Gas Safe to carry out work on a gas appliance. When unqualified workers try to bypass the law in this way they are not only putting themselves at risk of prosecution, and potentially a large fine or a spell in prison - they are also putting their customers' lives at risk.

The inspector doesn't say anything about competence or working in your own home or for friends & family being acceptable does he.
The first three lines of his statement say it all!

yep, and it further strengthens what ive been saying, when working for 'customers' you must be registered, in this context i totally agree. this is different than working in your own home, the regs state quite clearly you must be competent, doesnt mention registration

 

[mountainman]

But you have ignored the first three lines of his statement which clearly state that it is against the law for a non GSR individual to work on a gas appliance.

Twenty two litte words sums up the legal viewpoint and one on which a court of law would base their case; regardless of the competency or experience of the defendant.

 

[fuzzy]

But you have ignored the first three lines of his statement which clearly state that it is against the law for a non GSR individual to work on a gas appliance.

Twenty two litte words sums up the legal viewpoint and one on which a court of law would base their case; regardless of the competency or experience of the defendant.

in this context he is right, but it doesnt affect working on your own property, this article didnt talk about somebody working on their own property. it delt with somebody earning a living from gas work without being registered, therefore in that context all that is written is correct

do you have any links to somebody being done for installing something properly in their own home when competent but not being registered?

 

[mountainman]

No I don't, but do you have any links to the contrary?

The LAW States blah blah. End of storyIMHO.

How about you settling this debate once and for all and seek definitive guidance from both the HSE and Gas Safe and publish it on this site...

 

[fuzzy]

i dont need to , they have posted the information in the regulations, its there for all to see and ive quoted here in the past.

I dont have any links to the contrary, but then again who would report the fact that somebody carried something out legally and didnt go to court?

 

[mountainman]

Back to square one then, I Win!

 

[fuzzy]

not quite sure what you refer to when you say you win, in fact im not quite sure you understand the regulations. it states quite cleary you only have to be competent to work on gas, you only have to be regsitered if you work and charge for it ie emplyed or self employed. it really is that simple, its there in black and white
its up to you to prove you are competenet, it doesnt state what that refers to, it is widely accepted that to be competent you must have your acs, i agree, but i also feel there are exceptions to this, is my retired friend who was a tutor at british gas and helped set up the acs when it first started

 

[lambchop]

The reason why the d.i.y. stores are allowed to sell gas parts etc, enabling the d.i.y. er to put everybody at risk is because they went to court and argued the point that it is restrictive under the freedom of trade act to stop them from doing so! It goes to show how many people are doing there own work because they are selling lots of stuff at silly prices that no tradesman would pay unless a dire emergency on a sun aft. Spoke to a gas safe inspector about this and they said we have tried to stop this a number of times but they have chucked the towel in. Should invalidate house insurance if you dont have your gas apps serviced annually = good all round for everybody

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

Would not mind it being part of an insurance policy to get gas installations tested.

But would limit the cost a gas fitter could charge to about £5 to the customer and the rest paid by the insurance company. It may be amazing how many customers you would get if costs are low, even the DIY would find it cheaper to get you in.

Funny really how Safety and cost get all mixed up. Seems to me, a lot of money can be made out of Safety, but a lot of Safety standards can be kept up by low cost. What about uninsured people?

As to not selling gas fittings in stores. Yes okay, only sell them to the customer on proof of gas work being undertaken with an indemnity that they will be installed when used according to the Gas Regs. That way it would stop unfair gas fitters charging what ever they liked for them.

In practice you can buy unstamped BS water fittings in stores even though it is illegal to use them.

 

[lambchop]

Maybe Im a little too hardcore, in the way I cant imagine anyone buying a gas fitting who is not qualiffied to fit unless they are up to no good. When you need a new exhaust you dont go and buy it and then take it to the mechanic to fit. Government should get their 'balls' out of their mums handbag. Make it illegal to sell these fittings unless an I.D. card is presented and a hefty fine if a shop is caught doing it. It seems to have improved not selling alcohol to kids by toughening up some common sense laws, why not to gas....?

 

[fuzzy]

The reason why the d.i.y. stores are allowed to sell gas parts etc, enabling the d.i.y. er to put everybody at risk is because they went to court and argued the point that it is restrictive under the freedom of trade act to stop them from doing so! It goes to show how many people are doing there own work because they are selling lots of stuff at silly prices that no tradesman would pay unless a dire emergency on a sun aft. Spoke to a gas safe inspector about this and they said we have tried to stop this a number of times but they have chucked the towel in. Should invalidate house insurance if you dont have your gas apps serviced annually = good all round for everybody

just because somebody buys a gas part does not mean it is fitted illegally

 

[Bernie2]

Its called freedom of choice. The buyer knows or should know the Gas Regs. It is up to them if they want to break the law. We do not govern cars down to the legal maximum speed limit do we? It is up to us if we break the limits. People have to be responsible.

 

[midge]

Maybe more people would use a registered installer if the costs were lower, unfortunately with current ACS and Gas Safe costs the installer has to charge a lot.

Can you imagine the outcry if all car drivers had to re-take a driving test every five years.

 

[Bernie2]

Yes I suppose cost is the main factor why you get people doing DIY. Some do like doing it for a hobby mind. The cost of gas training for ACS and the likes do add on a lot to running costs for a small company. If however, you consider how much money is made by gas suppliers and appliance manufacturers who are reliant on appliances being fitted by gas fitters, isn't it fair to ask for a large contribution from them toward training and ACS costs?

We even get boiler manufaturers seeming to want to charge you for learning how to service their equipment they should be paying you for wanting to do it.

Lets be honest wouldyou sell motor cars if nobody had passed a driving test that was required by law?

Surely safety is the object of ACS and to learn how to work safely should cost next to nothing.

 

[Puddle]

Maybe more people would use a registered installer if the costs were lower, unfortunately with current ACS and Gas Safe costs the installer has to charge a lot.

Can you imagine the outcry if all car drivers had to re-take a driving test every five years.

What is the difference in cost from a unqualified tradesman in gas and a tradesman with his gas card,not that much I believe ?

 

[mountainman]

Perception that a properly trained, qualified, insured and knowledgable tradesman is going to be much more expensive than a mate who 'does a bit of everything' is the problem IMO.

A few weeks ago a poster stated within the first couple of sentences 'I know that plumbers are expensive'

There is no counter to this mentality yet the same people flock to superstores to buy inferior products at inflated prices.

 

[david williams]

our courts can not decide the definitive definition of competant,its not about safety its about jobs for the boys and taking money off of you,ask gas safe hse for figures about prosecutions and complaints about unsafe instalations,have they gone down since registration came in,how many ec unregisterd plumbers are prosecuted ?.i have been in this industry for over 40 years and i know many plumbers my age who are not registerd for gas,but still do the work and are a dam site more competant than most of the fast track gas fitters i have had work for me.you all seem to think there should be legistration to ensure work for yourselves.

 

[mountainman]

There is if you live in OZ.

 

[fuzzy]

Yes I suppose cost is the main factor why you get people doing DIY. Some do like doing it for a hobby mind. The cost of gas training for ACS and the likes do add on a lot to running costs for a small company. If however, you consider how much money is made by gas suppliers and appliance manufacturers who are reliant on appliances being fitted by gas fitters, isn't it fair to ask for a large contribution from them toward training and ACS costs?

We even get boiler manufaturers seeming to want to charge you for learning how to service their equipment they should be paying you for wanting to do it.

Lets be honest wouldyou sell motor cars if nobody had passed a driving test that was required by law?

Surely safety is the object of ACS and to learn how to work safely should cost next to nothing.

remember though that you may be competent but not have your acs or be registered, then you can legally install a gas fitting or appliance, not possible if freedom to purchase gas fitting is removed

dont fall into the trap of thinking somebody who is a DIYer buys a gas fitting isnt competent or legal

 

[fuzzy]

our courts can not decide the definitive definition of competant,its not about safety its about jobs for the boys and taking money off of you,ask gas safe hse for figures about prosecutions and complaints about unsafe instalations,have they gone down since registration came in,how many ec unregisterd plumbers are prosecuted ?.i have been in this industry for over 40 years and i know many plumbers my age who are not registerd for gas,but still do the work and are a dam site more competant than most of the fast track gas fitters i have had work for me.you all seem to think there should be legistration to ensure work for yourselves.

maybe they are competent but they are working illegally if not registered and as a living

competence without registration only allows you to work on your own property

 

[mountainman]

How many gas fitters both 'fast track', registered and incompetent
And
'Old School', competent but unregistered have you employed Fuzzy?
If you are a major employer then perhaps you might consider paying your guys more money so that the older competent ones work for you legally and maybe even take a less experienced person under their wing and pass on their knowledge to the next generation.

 

[fuzzy]

How many gas fitters both 'fast track', registered and incompetent
And
'Old School', competent but unregistered have you employed Fuzzy?
If you are a major employer then perhaps you might consider paying your guys more money so that the older competent ones work for you legally and maybe even take a less experienced person under their wing and pass on their knowledge to the next generation.

not sure i follow your point.

im pointing out that to work on gas employed or self employed you must be registered. To be registeed you need your acs which is proof of competence.
If you work as a DIYer you only need to be competent, this may be through your acs but doesnt have to be, although i recon theres only a rare few who could prove it without

I would never employ anybody to do gas who was not registered
id never report a competent unregistered person working on their own home

 

[hammers4spanner]

not sure i follow your point.

im pointing out that to work on gas employed or self employed you must be registered. To be registeed you need your acs which is proof of competence.
If you work as a DIYer you only need to be competent, this may be through your acs but doesnt have to be, although i recon theres only a rare few who could prove it without

I would never employ anybody to do gas who was not registered
id never report a competent unregistered person working on their own home

So how does it work idf someone is competent to work on own home but when moving house cant issue a gas cert to build control ?

 

[Kyle87]

i bet you lose any gaurantees on appliances if a person who isnt gas registered works on them. apologies if this point has already been made....i havnt read entire thread!

 

[fuzzy]

So how does it work idf someone is competent to work on own home but when moving house cant issue a gas cert to build control ?

i dont know, ive never come across it, doesnt mean the law has been broken though.

 

[fuzzy]

i bet you lose any gaurantees on appliances if a person who isnt gas registered works on them. apologies if this point has already been made....i havnt read entire thread!

maybe so but again this doesnt mean it is illegal

 

[hammers4spanner]

The reason i ask is because i have recently come across the exact scenario of a non gas qualified person installing in their own home and upon sale no gas certs have been provided .
upon reporting this to gsr i got a response of pass it over to build control who have done a grand total of nothing !!!
If this is a case of the prior owner felt competent ( i have seen the work and say otherwise) then if nothing happens doesnt this make all this competent person irrelevant regarding someones own home??

 

[fuzzy]

The reason i ask is because i have recently come across the exact scenario of a non gas qualified person installing in their own home and upon sale no gas certs have been provided .
upon reporting this to gsr i got a response of pass it over to build control who have done a grand total of nothing !!!
If this is a case of the prior owner felt competent ( i have seen the work and say otherwise) then if nothing happens doesnt this make all this competent person irrelevant regarding someones own home??

a number of points come from this:

My experience with building control is just as you have suggested. I'm not even sure they know what the rules are regarding plumbing and gas, i had a similar experience reporting an unvented system.

They are breaking the law if working on their own home and not being competent. Just because 'they felt competent' is not the same. I dont consider the regs irrelevant, they are fine as they are for me.

is the installation legal? it may be ruff but if its legal then i fail too see what law has been broken. i suggest if something went wrong he would be prosecuted, but if not is it worth taking to court over 'competency'? it would be difficult to prove he wasnt if the work is ok and theefore a waste of gsr/public money and time

 

[hammers4spanner]

The boiler has been registered although the fire hasn't been register and when i looked at it its an ID scenario upon smoke test (spilling). To me in some scenario's the gas laws are not overly helpfull.

 

[fuzzy]

The boiler has been registered although the fire hasn't been register and when i looked at it its an ID scenario upon smoke test (spilling). To me in some scenario's the gas laws are not overly helpfull.

what do you think is wrong in the laws??????

as far as i can see this is a ID and therefore the jobs has not been done safely, therefore breaking regs. it further supports lack of competence, which is also a reg

 

[hammers4spanner]

I'm not saying their is anything wrong myself but its how joe bloggs has interpreted it as in the competant person .

Why dont they just say you cant work on gas at all unless you have taken said appropriate persons course in competancy , just my opinion from experience in this case i have recently come across

 

[fuzzy]

I'm not saying their is anything wrong myself but its how joe bloggs has interpreted it as in the competant person .

Why dont they just say you cant work on gas at all unless you have taken said appropriate persons course in competancy , just my opinion from experience in this case i have recently come across

id be surprised that this person has read the regs and decided he/she is competent, more likely they decided to do it anyway, and therefore ignorant imho

the laws cannot stop ignorance

the debate over what is and what isnt competent will never be solved, each case is individual and only considered once something goes wrong normally in a court of law. as something has gone wrong i presume its difficult for them to claim competency!

if the law was that you had to do a course that would mean a retired gas fitter of 50 years experience whos acs ran out 2 days ago couldnt sevrice his own fire, i dont agree with this

 

[MUR4Y]

Just fitted a new combi in my own home. Been a plumber for the last 24 years (Time served) . Did my acops when that was on the go. Got my acs ccn1 and cen1 and was gas safe through the firm I previously worked for till they folded last year. Fitted any amount of boilers on new build sites for them. Even though acs certs don't run out till 2013 I am no longer classed as gas safe, but there is no chance I am gonna pay another bloke to come round to fit my boiler when I am totally capable myself. Obviously boiler warranty is now void cos I cannot sign off the benchmark. How many more plumbers have been in the same situation?.

 

[AWheating]

Just fitted a new combi in my own home. Been a plumber for the last 24 years (Time served) . Did my acops when that was on the go. Got my acs ccn1 and cen1 and was gas safe through the firm I previously worked for till they folded last year. Fitted any amount of boilers on new build sites for them. Even though acs certs don't run out till 2013 I am no longer classed as gas safe, but there is no chance I am gonna pay another bloke to come round to fit my boiler when I am totally capable myself. Obviously boiler warranty is now void cos I cannot sign off the benchmark. How many more plumbers have been in the same situation?.

plenty. Loads of guys Gas Safe registered through a company have the same problem when doing work on there own houses. If the company you work for will not let you sign of the installation under there GS number what can you do about it??

 

[midge]

Just fitted a new combi in my own home. .... Obviously boiler warranty is now void cos I cannot sign off the benchmark.

Don't worry. You know it is fitted correctly, if something does fail, you will also have the skill and ability to repair it at minimal cost.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Don't worry. You know it is fitted correctly, if something does fail, you will also have the skill and ability to repair it at minimal cost.

very true but when they move will have to get a gsr engineer in to certify boiler ,,,,,all a tad daft !!

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

Making laws are a bit irrelevant regarding competence. Laws are a cheap way for governments to police an industry. The problem with them is, they do not usually come into effect until something goes wrong.

There should be a local gas inspector team paid for by the gas industry as a whole, who could go to every job where a gas appliance is being fitted or installation installed, for them to inspect the work and either yes or no it. You could then do away with all the ACS and Gas Safe stuff.

The repair work could be done quite easily by designing boilers in sections. All the gas fitter could then do, is replace each gas train section if it failed, requiring no more competence that it does for a housewife to turn on the gas cooker.

Owh! All the money spinners going lads!

 

[xixal]

Dan, thanks for your comments but I am not trying to install cookers or fires.

 

[xixal]

DIY Gas fitting is not recommending. This includes the installation of Gas appliances such as cookers and fires etc.

Always use a gas safe registered plumber for all your Gas plumbing requirements.

Dan, thanks for your comments I am not trying to fit a cooker or fire.

 

[xixal]

Stuart, I have already scoped where to buy the parts i.e 2 x lengths of coated pipework and three connections, no one asked me about being corgi registered. Furthermore any work carried out would be checked by a gas enginner who would be Corgi registered. I have had 4 quotes, all ranging from 1300 - 2300 pounds, the materials cost 176 pounds even at the lowest quote thats 1100 pounds for two pieces of pipe and soldering three connectors. Is any wonder people like myself are looking at other methods that are SAFE to do the job at a realistic price. is any wonder why they call this country "RIP OF BRITAIN"

 

[xixal]

Fuzzy take your point. In the last 7 years I have fitted several heating systems, I have always left the connections with gas to those who are so called qualified I only say this because some of the work done was not as good as I had amagined it would be. How do you define competent, its questionable I beleive I am competent but in order to be 100% sure I did mention in my link that a would getting an enginner if I were to do the job. I can't find an engineer that is able to give a realistic price, quotes of 1300 - 2300 pounds are ridiculas especially when the materials are less the 200 pounds...... Wish I never asked for help in the first place

 

[Reg Man]

Shall we say it again. Competence= Someone who has the relevant training, qualification and experience, to carry the work out safely in accordance with the gas safety (installation & use regulations) and the relevant standards which apply to the work being undertaken.

 

[Ermintrude]

Fuzzy take your point. In the last 7 years I have fitted several heating systems, I have always left the connections with gas to those who are so called qualified I only say this because some of the work done was not as good as I had amagined it would be. How do you define competent, its questionable I beleive I am competent but in order to be 100% sure I did mention in my link that a would getting an enginner if I were to do the job. I can't find an engineer that is able to give a realistic price, quotes of 1300 - 2300 pounds are ridiculas especially when the materials are less the 200 pounds...... Wish I never asked for help in the first place

Corgi? Isn't that for electricians? U make the joints, they leak in 5 years time due to workmanship errors.

Your not competent ! Are you doing any of this for financial gain? If so your a very naughty man!

It is illegal for you to affect any fitting or appliance connection or vessel involves in the supply of gas for financial gain if you are not a gas safe registered engineer.

You do your own electrics too?

 

[Barry98]

Xixal what is your normal job , for a living .

 

[Barry98]

More importantly how long did it take you to qualify , what equipment do you need , how often does it have to be calibrated , what so you spend yearly on insurance and training ?

 

[Reg Man]

Competence applies to every one DIY or employed no difference.

 

[lame plumber]

saw a yacht explode a few years back caused by an lpg leak, severe burns all round for those onboard and two of them breathed in the flames, very nasty results for them, and the rottweiller was severely narked off at losing most off his fur!

 

[xixal]

Look, I don't know who you think you are pr-k, your comments aren't constructive and warrant this reply. I get the point, your all would rather I get ripped off, I get it.. let face with ripping people off how would you survive. I came to this forum for advice, not to be slated by idiots like you. This thread is closed. Thank you

Corgi? Isn't that for electricians? U make the joints, they leak in 5 years time due to workmanship errors.

Your not competent ! Are you doing any of this for financial gain? If so your a very naughty man!

It is illegal for you to affect any fitting or appliance connection or vessel involves in the supply of gas for financial gain if you are not a gas safe registered engineer.

You do your own electrics too?

 

[SimonJohns]

Actually the thread isn't closed

And ok going to risk this. But there is no need to call a regular contributor names. And if we are going to be clear about this I think your the *****.

Please don't do any gas fitting for anyone or yourself. You don't realise the amount of danger you are exposing everyone to

Gas safe is there for a reason and the cost of the job is for a reason

People still die with registered engineers around but this is mainly due to unregistered engineers working on gas

 

[Rickster123]

Look, I don't know who you think you are pr-k, your comments aren't constructive and warrant this reply. I get the point, your all would rather I get ripped off, I get it.. let face with ripping people off how would you survive. I came to this forum for advice, not to be slated by idiots like you. This thread is closed. Thank you

Temper temper! Don't stress croppie or one of our lovely suuuuuuper mods will close it shortly.

 

[Dotty]

He is no longer welcome. And the thread is staying open.

One day he'll learn you can't put a price on safety.

 

[SimonJohns]

He is no longer welcome. And the thread is staying open.

One day he'll learn you can't put a price on safety.

Thank god for that

 

[Reg Man]

Look, I don't know who you think you are pr-k, your comments aren't constructive and warrant this reply. I get the point, your all would rather I get ripped off, I get it.. let face with ripping people off how would you survive. I came to this forum for advice, not to be slated by idiots like you. This thread is closed. Thank you

Truly shocking and there is no need for the abuse. The guys on here are professionals and for the best part know what there talking about. We often get people who ask for professional advice and we give the answers they require. It is most disrespectfully to ask the question get the answer and then want to argue that its wrong.

 

[Howsie]

The surgeon that did a hernia for me used a scalpel, needle and thread. He was happy with my cheque for £36 which included at £20 tip.

This fool clearly thinks he know better. Installed a few heating systems in my time. Ha. Ive hit a few golf balls in my time.

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Reg Man]

Quote>This fool clearly thinks he know better. Installed a few heating systems in my time. Ha. Ive hit a few golf balls in my time.

Ignorance is bliss.<Quote: Yes I've hit a few golf balls in my time to, lost most of them, broken a few windows but fortunately did not kill anyone. The golf club suggested I had some tuition (training qualification and experience).

 

[Ermintrude]

Look, I don't know who you think you are pr-k, your comments aren't constructive and warrant this reply. I get the point, your all would rather I get ripped off, I get it.. let face with ripping people off how would you survive. I came to this forum for advice, not to be slated by idiots like you. This thread is closed. Thank you

Idiot has a master degree, 15 years experience and has managed the safety and constructive workforce on about £600 million pounds worth of construction projects.

You have endangered people, abused those who offered advice and pretty much justified the expression " a little knowledge is dangerous in wrong hands".

Pretty much why gas fittings and associated materials should only ever be sold to a badge holder .

 

[kirkgas]

Haha I cannae believe I missed this whole thread, I could have given him pelters as well, although to be fair you all managed fine without me

 

[Jimbob]

I remember speaking to an old corgi inspector. His reply to DIY gas work in your own home was that it was a grey area?! And that an Englishman's home is his castle. Views have definitely changed since. Competent = some who hold the relevant GS registration and ACS assessments

 

[Gorgeous Alan]

Gas pipe blanking off

I am a retired coppersmith with vast experience of pipe work in industry. I want to blank off a 15mm gas pipe in my own home. Can I do this legally or does this need certificating?

 

[Rich8]

No sorry mate it must be done by someone gas safe registered

 

[Reg Man]

With out reading this entire thread, this question has probably been already answered, so apologies for this. The gas safety (installation & use) regulations apply to everyone weather DIY or not. Reg 3 requires any one who carries out gas work to be competent to do so. This can only be demonstrated by someone who has relevant training and experience for the work undertaken. So an ACS qualification is a good marker to prove competence. So most DIY'ers would have difficulty proving competence and therefore could be seen in a court of law to have contravened the regulations.

 

[Dotty]

I am a retired coppersmith with vast experience of pipe work in industry. I want to blank off a 15mm gas pipe in my own home. Can I do this legally or does this need certificating?

With out reading this entire thread, this question has probably been already answered, so apologies for this. The gas safety (installation & use) regulations apply to everyone weather DIY or not. Reg 3 requires any one who carries out gas work to be competent to do so. This can only be demonstrated by someone who has relevant training and experience for the work undertaken. So an ACS qualification is a good marker to prove competence. So most DIY'ers would have difficulty proving competence and therefore could be seen in a court of law to have contravened the regulations.

So to sum up RM,

No.

 

[Admin]

Don't mind me while I bump some threads in the [DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/"]plumbing forum[/DLMURL] category. This thread might not be a current topic, if it isn't, just let it drop off the list.

If you DO want to reply to it, go ahead, that's fine. Your post might add some value to the thread and help newer members in the future.

 

[Rickster123]

Dan are you spamming your own forum? Or just a slow day at the office mate?!

 

[rpm]

Dan are you spamming your own forum? Or just a slow day at the office mate?!

Too much coffee I reckon or he`s given up smoking. lol