Do Zone valves have to be added?

[Petefinny]

Hi guys i have come to a gravity fed system and they want a new boiler, the system is not zoned off for the hot water central heating, is it current regs now that they have to be zoned? Thanks guys

 

[SimonG]

It's not zoning as such. But you should be swapping the hot water onto pumped as a minimum. As Chris said it's part of part L. If it's a landlord and they cant afford those mods, what's the chances of getting all your money.

In my opinion, do it right or don't do it.

 

[chris watkins]

Have a look at the link in the old post to the complaints guide that is the document that sets out what is required for each system in each case.

IMHO the minimum required to notify under Part L is time & temperature control on two zones (heating & hot water) with TRV's on all the rads except the one room which has the room stat.
As others have said all Landlords are poor & given the choice will not have these controls installed, so we should not be giving them any option, the reason is simple a well controlled heating system allows the tenants to use the heating & HW efficiently which is both there interest as well as our planets.

 

[doitmyself]

Thats settled one argument but what about the bench mark and validating the boiler warranty if it does not comply with the benchmark.

The Benchmark says: "The heating and hot water system complies with the appropriate Building Regulations."

According to the advice from the DCLG you can still tick the 'yes' box (assuming the other provisions have been met) if you only have a single zone.

 

[AWheating]

theres a difference between seperate zones on the heating and having seperate control of the heating and hot water which is whats being questioned. The boiler/system must have interlock, time and temp controls.

theres a good argument for not zoning heating due to costs, but why should a tight landlord not have to help save the planet like the rest of us by not fitting the bare min required?

 

[Petefinny]

Its one of them jobs that you do for a friend as a "Favour" but eventually realise you should never have got involved he wants to sell the house but cant so now needs to rent it out, the decision i have decided to take is to (as the boiler is already fitted before he told me that he can no longer afford the zoning) is i am going to fill in the bench mark and let them no it is not up to current standards due to cost, i am not going to put up with my reputation getting tarnished by someone who clearly just wants the job doin for virtually nothing and is willing for the tennant to pay for hot water when he only wants heating and vice versa, at the end of me tether with the guy and as long as i cover myself by filling in the benchmark correctly and as how i see it, i will not get in trouble with the relevent authorities. Thanks Guys

 

[chris watkins]

Its one of them jobs that you do for a friend as a "Favour" but eventually realise you should never have got involved he wants to sell the house but cant so now needs to rent it out, the decision i have decided to take is to (as the boiler is already fitted before he told me that he can no longer afford the zoning) is i am going to fill in the bench mark and let them no it is not up to current standards due to cost, i am not going to put up with my reputation getting tarnished by someone who clearly just wants the job doin for virtually nothing and is willing for the tennant to pay for hot water when he only wants heating and vice versa, at the end of me tether with the guy and as long as i cover myself by filling in the benchmark correctly and as how i see it, i will not get in trouble with the relevent authorities. Thanks Guys

& put this one down to experience Pete, about the only chance it has of coming to light, funny enough, is if he does sell the house !!

 

[AWheating]

Its one of them jobs that you do for a friend as a "Favour" but eventually realise you should never have got involved he wants to sell the house but cant so now needs to rent it out, the decision i have decided to take is to (as the boiler is already fitted before he told me that he can no longer afford the zoning) is i am going to fill in the bench mark and let them no it is not up to current standards due to cost, i am not going to put up with my reputation getting tarnished by someone who clearly just wants the job doin for virtually nothing and is willing for the tennant to pay for hot water when he only wants heating and vice versa, at the end of me tether with the guy and as long as i cover myself by filling in the benchmark correctly and as how i see it, i will not get in trouble with the relevent authorities. Thanks Guys

tell him that without the correct controls to meet the regs you cant correctly fill out the information required to register and get the buildng compliance certificate. With out this cert he will struggle to ever sell the house.

 

[erpkid]

Building control here,which comes under Braintree district council,insist on zoning and full Monty on new build and also where there was no previous central heating. So if there is some sort of system in there is wriggle room for impecunious customers or short armed and deep pocketed landlords. Have a word with building control they will be more than happy to advise.

 

[Petefinny]

I need to go about it a sneaky way so that i dont upset the customer and get paid for the work but alkso dont land my self in trouble with the relevant building authorities!!

 

[Gray0689]

I need to go about it a sneaky way so that i dont upset the customer and get paid for the work but alkso dont land my self in trouble with the relevant building authorities!!

If you think doing it sneaky is good your a joke

 

[Petefinny]

No i mean i dont want him to try and pull any tricks because i have said it is not up to current standards and he wont get his warranty then he might claim the job is no good, you know what people like this are like, anything to get out of paying for the work that has been done, and to call me a joke is not the done thing to do now is it?

 

[Hybrid]

A joke? That's a bit harsh. Why should pete have to step in and be the part L police?
It's not your job to save the world single handedly. If the government cares that much about compliance they'd give us tax breaks for ensuring all our installs are energy efficient. As it is they've delegated that responsibility to us, stroked our egos and told us we're the front line in saving the planet and some of us have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

Pete, get the job done, make it clear on the benchmark you complied as mush as possible and get paid. Caring for the environment is all well and good but why must it be at the expense of your business?

 

[Gray0689]

No i mean i dont want him to try and pull any tricks because i have said it is not up to current standards and he wont get his warranty then he might claim the job is no good, you know what people like this are like, anything to get out of paying for the work that has been done, to call me a joke is not the done thing to do now is it?

I apologise I read it as you wanted to be underhand not to cover your back
Best of luck anyway

 

[chris watkins]

A joke? That's a bit harsh. Why should pete have to step in and be the part L police?
It's not your job to save the world single handedly. If the government cares that much about compliance they'd give us tax breaks for ensuring all our installs are energy efficient. As it is they've delegated that responsibility to us, stroked our egos and told us we're the front line in saving the planet and some of us have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

Pete, get the job done, make it clear on the benchmark you complied as mush as possible and get paid. Caring for the environment is all well and good but why must it be at the expense of your business?

I agree hybrid "A joke" was harsh from someone who's normal position is more akin to yours. However even he cant match your twaddle above, who's talking about saving the world single handed ? They do, its called - VAT at 5% for energy saving measures. Why would a government (elected by you) not expect heating professionals to take responsibility for advising customers of their duties under the Law when having controls installed, who else would you suggest is suitable for that role ??? What have I fallen for hook & line ? the fact that we are all living on the same plant as one another & how is it at the expense of your business ? It is only because there are people like you who are willing to carry out installs without complying that there is an opportunity for a cost difference.

 

[Gray0689]

Please elaborate what I'm like chris

 

[Hybrid]

I agree hybrid "A joke" was harsh from someone who's normal position is more akin to yours. However even he cant match your twaddle above, who's talking about saving the world single handed ? They do, its called - VAT at 5% for energy saving measures. Why would a government (elected by you) not expect heating professionals to take responsibility for advising customers of their duties under the Law when having controls installed, who else would you suggest is suitable for that role ??? What have I fallen for hook & line ? the fact that we are all living on the same plant as one another & how is it at the expense of your business ? It is only because there are people like you who are willing to carry out installs without complying that there is an opportunity for a cost difference.

A customer can't spend what it doesn't have. So pete should refuse the work on the basis of his conscience? Decent tradesmen for those who can afford to comply to the regs and cowboys for those who can't. Nice.
Pete has advised the customer that they need upgraded controls, that's where his responsibility begins and ends.

I won't decline work because the customer doesn't care about the planet. Suggesting that I should is unbelievably sanctimonious
It would be at the expense of my business if I declined to quote for a job because the customer won't or can't comply with the regs.

I only care about the non-safety related regs as far as I am being paid, if being pragmatic makes me a cowboy then so be it. The warm glow coming off my halo won't heat my home this winter but money earned through hard work will.

 

[AWheating]

I would not refuse the work. If you explain yourself and the position well you tend to get somewhere but not always. If a landlord is a cheapskate then put it in writting that they have declined the controls etc and that they know they wont be getting a building compliance notice and the boiler warrantee may be void.

As professionals we need to take the responsibility on our shoulders to try and stick to the requirements as a min, normally its going to be to the benifit of the customer in the long run and the planet. That said you cant always win and as long as you have explained things correctly and given it a push i cant fault anybody for not turning down work.

Landlords are the main problem, cant afford a few controls........ yeh right!

 

[doitmyself]

Ha Ha sorry guys, its a fully pumped system that go's to open vent , it has a main he A heat only installed

Do you mean fully pumped heating and hot water?

The landlord is saying he can't afford to have it zoned

Have what zoned - heating or hot water?

If heating - don't bother, it's not compulsory on boiler replacements.
If hot water - sorry, but it's a definite requirement and you won't get a certificate if not done. It's only a motorized valve, cylinder stat and some wiring!