Fga's are mainly used for co/co2 ratio's. i know they can be used for temp & pressure readings but we can use thermometers & u gauges for that. Lets be honest about it these analysers with there initial & maintenance costs are a nice little earner for the company's. When you think about it, you can buy a co detector for next to nothing and it surely can't be that difficult to record the co2. Somehow i think we are all being taken to the cleaners there. So my question is, is there another way of checking co/co2 without using a fga ie a simple co/co2 reader. If there's not, there;s a fortune to be made by any budding inventor.
- Thread starter johnnyplumb
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Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
Regulation 26.9 You must check the effectiveness of any flue. So technically they could get you on that now if you did not stick a analyser in if something went wrong.
G
gasmarc
yes I agree with you but it can be a useful bit of kit I rarely use mine as a manometer is quicker
T
tamz
They are only really needed for A rated boilers and some other stuff. There are other well established ways of checking flues without one.
Checking the operation of a flue with a FGA should never negate doing the other checks.
Checking the operation of a flue with a FGA should never negate doing the other checks.
M
mike_s
I think they're essential, I use mine on almost every service and installation. Gives me peace of mind when I walk away. Once I used it to check a vertical flue I installed, It was pumping out high levels of CO as it wasn't pushed in properly, we were going to take it out and check it anyway as we wern't 100% sure about it but it isn't always easy when you've got to push them through roofs, lead slates and 2 ceilings. Even with horizontal flues, with todays fashion for push fit flue elbows where the rubbers can easilly be pushed aside and the seal lost, it is still necesarry in my opinion to check with a FGA.
Just one example there but many of todays boilers don't have viewing windows to check flame pictures and then there's flueless appliances too.
I regard mine as vital kit and the credibility it shows to your customers when they see a print out has got to be worth it too.
They are very competitively priced these days and I think the rule coming in April should have been brought in 2 years ago at least.
Just one example there but many of todays boilers don't have viewing windows to check flame pictures and then there's flueless appliances too.
I regard mine as vital kit and the credibility it shows to your customers when they see a print out has got to be worth it too.
They are very competitively priced these days and I think the rule coming in April should have been brought in 2 years ago at least.
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. I know you must have your cpa1, as I already have it but are they making you buy an analyser as well. I only do new boiler installs & most manufacturers don't ask for fga readings. Do I have to buy an analyser when I might never use it. Surely this can't be right.
M
mike_s
yep I compare the readings from installation to every service. I'm sure you would find it useful and I think after April the manufacturers should insist on use of a FGA, especially the ones which use pushfit flues, which is the vast majoritory it seems these days.
I understand what you saying but on most new boiler lnstalls fga readings are not required & you dont need it for burner pressures as you can use u gauge. So the main question is are gas safe forcing us to buy a fga from April. Anyone know the answer?
No you dont need to buy a FGA if your work does not require you to use one. As you say on new installs most manufactures do not require you to use one, that said i have heard that some Gas Safe inspectors are now expecting to see them being used on new installs.
If you do HA/Counsil work tho you may find that they will start requesting analyser readings on new installs, 2 of my local counsils now insist on having readings on new installs.
If you do HA/Counsil work tho you may find that they will start requesting analyser readings on new installs, 2 of my local counsils now insist on having readings on new installs.
T
tamz
i would lay money that by next year all boilers will demand an fga test for new instals .Those that dont ask for now dont as it could reduce their market share once we all have to have it they will ask for it
K
kirkgas
the simple answer is NO, you dont have to buy an analyser, however IF you do work which requires one to record what the readings are then you need to either hire one or borrow one from someone else (although why anyone would lend an analyser to someone who wont buy one is beyond me)
as you say if you only fit boilers that dont need an analyser to set them up and pass broken down ones back to the manufacturer, or only service open flued appliances then you cannot be made to buy one, this is where people have a problem with being made to do CPA1 as their daily workload means they wont ever use one, so in effect it is a waste of time, from doing a lot of assessment over the yrs and people complaining about doing ACS, a lot have voiced an opinion that they would like to see CEN1 for maintaining appliaances and CEN2 for installing which could be a quicker more directly related to what they do assessment, ie no flue flow, spillage etc as they never do any of this, can understand where they are coming from, but a lot of guys would then need 2 assessments which would cost more, it prob just comes from their lack of confidence of service side of assessment
K
kirkgas
what type of boiler are you fitting these days that allow you to take a BP with a U guage??
THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS NO, GSR ARE NOT MAKING YOU BUY AN ANALYSER IN APRIL, they have no power to make you buy one, just be careful that whatever work task you are doing doesnt need one, and be aware of the pitfalls of not having one if a scenario crops up where you could be asked "would you have left this property safer if you have checked it with an analyser"? if you can answer NO then you will be fine
K
kirkgas
i totally agree with this point, be careful of "contract conditions" which are more strict than the regs, as you have priced to give a FGA print out on a service or install, you cant go back and bleat that it isnt a legal requirement when the customer will simply say "yes we know that but it is a contract requirement that you have included in your tender quote, now go back and do a print out of the 40 boilers you have just done, as we aint gonna pay you until we have the print out"
K
kirkgas
the key word her is "ALL", if they all stick together and do it then it could happen, but i can guarantee you from conversations from those within the R&D side, that one reason some manufacturers dont make it mandatory to set up/check with FGA on install is to and i quote "catch the cheaper end of the market who simply want a boiler fitted as cheap as possible" and by removing the need to check with FGA there are installers who choose these boilers as they dont need to buy and calibrate FGA's for all their teams, its the same as the tech departments who want it mandatory for benchmark or similar or they refuse a warrenty call, the ales side had a hairy fit when this was suggested as a way of increasing chance of a legal install, the sales team seen it as a suicide mission if others will do warrenty calls for any boiler, in effect ensuring the homer market still buys their boiler, if you make it too strict then the homer market goes to another make simple as that, dont think these rules and regs are ever about safety, thats niaive
the answer to this is its about time the boiler manufacturers where brought into the dracion regime that we fitters are subjected to
there have been several examples over the years of manufacturers skirting round the egs to gain a market lead which resulted in some very borderline boilers safety wise
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