Firebird oylympic 50/70 old style riello burner

[Inverness]

Nightmare..
Hi guys need advice. Went to service a friends boiler that hasn't been service in years...
He has cleaned out the heat exchanger from time to time but that's all. The boiler was working fine.
So I started out cleaning the heat exchanger which was clean.. the replaced a new nozzel which the old one was quite clean. Set up electrodes. Adjusted the oil pressure as requirement. Then the co2 was 9% which needed to be 11.5% it was the old riello burners that have a shutter to adjusted the fan which I did not want to touch but what's the point in don't doing a good job so I went ahead and slightly move the shutter. Then the co2 went high. Then boiler went off then on again then off and hasn't been right since..
I thought it might be a loose cable from the burner cause everytime you touch it is had effect on the motor cutting out? I checked the nozzel And its fine. The process when I turn on boiler. The fan starts then the solenoid opens and sparks and oil pressure reaches 10bar then drop back to zero while the fan is still running?
It's an old riello burner with white control box. Could it be the photocell?

Any advice please

 

[Brambles]

The symptoms that you refer to are probably the baffles that have either been installed incorrectly or are deformed and leaking.

Not teaching you to suck eggs, but it is all too easy on a Firebird, to fit the wrong nozzle when replacing. Always check the MI’s, not the one you have taken off!!

 

[SimonG]

I would have been happy with the 9% co2. Wouldn't be setting anything that old anywhere near 11.5.

Basically start from scratch. Check nozzle size as Bramble said. Burner out, check the nozzle is tightened up. Customer brought me a cup of tea when I was putting a new nozzle in, distracted me and i didn't fully tighten the nozzle.

Did you take the photocall off the control box? Try not to touch them on the older boilers.

 

[Inverness]

.50 80 eh nozzle.
The baffles are fine. I'll take on your tips.
Anything else I could check?

 

[Brambles]

Always best to start again and set up the burner and burner nozzle, the baffle positions, set the fan blinds and clean and realign the photocell. They are generally pretty bullet proof - but the alignments need to be correct.

If it fails to ignite after that just work logically through the ignition sequence on a trouble shooting basis.

That will either give you heat ir identify the defective component

 

[Inverness]

Thank you can you explain what you mean about the alignment needs to be right? Thank you

 

[Brambles]

The starting point is to read through the MI’s and ensure that the burner is assembled and positioned within the boiler correctly.

In simple terms, it won’t work if the photocell is not clean and correctly positioned ( a minor knock can put it out of adjustment).

The burner nozzle must be the correct one and properly fitted to the burner, it may work if incorrectly fitted, but will be problematic.

If the baffle plates are distorted or incorrectly fitted - it is very difficult to properly commission the unit.

The fan shutters need to be clean, even spaced and correctly positioned.

These units are very sensitive, once they are old, they are often distorted and need to be reassembled with care to both avoid leakage and the line of sight for the photocell being changed.

Does this answer your question?

 

[Inverness]

Is it easy to clean the fan? When I adjusted it the ppm went sky high? Why would this be if i only adjusted it and no more. Then after that the boiler fired up then it stopped then started then stopped while the fan was still running. Thank for your time Andy patience!

 

[Best]

Check the fixed air door you adjusted isn’t snagging the outer door that closes and opens with the ram.
The screw in middle of the fixed door can catch of the moving door.
The adjustment in the fixed door should normally be very slight to get Co2 tweaked.

 

[Brambles]

What level of CO are you regarding as sky high? I would expect to achieve a CO2 around 9 to 10%.

Are you sure that the fan is consistently holding the air pressure switch closed?

Check that the photocell has not been disturbed and is functioning correctly.

Fan cleaning is not difficult, but you must ensure that the shutters are correctly teplaced and adjusted afterwards.

 

[Inverness]

Co reaching above 160 ppm
But this only happened when I adjusted the fan.. then the burner started to cut out then it would start up then go out 2 seconds of seeing the flame then off,oil working pressure was reading 8 bar then it would drop and flame go out? I am nervous going back tomorrow to see if a new magic eye fixes it but what if I can't adjust the fan and tips on theses old fan adjustments never had experience on this type before. I can't thank you enough brambles

 

[SimonG]

Sounds like the photocall, they just don't like being touched at all.

 

[Inverness]

When the flame goes out the fan continues running then automatic starts up the ignition process then it manages to get the flame then it goes out but the boiler doesn't go to lockout. Any more suggestions so when I go round tomorrow I'm so worried if I don't get the boiler up and running I'll look like a idiot but I am new to this game.
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I'd like to say thanks too you all as I've learnt so much from you all!

 

[SimonG]

I would be changing the photocall, make sure the control box goes back in and nip up the screw.

It's just not seeing the flame.

Once you've got it going then you can tackle the co2 and co.


Everybody starts somewhere and there are times you can doubt yourself. Logic sequence will get you through it.
But it gets even more fun on intermittent faults, two faults at once or the even better a part not working straight out of the box.

Persistence will get you there.

 

[Inverness]

Hi, update...
Changed new oil pump and new control box with new photocell.
It starts fine then stops like the solenoid valve isn't energising so I'll replace a new solenoid valve to see. If this fails any ideas?

 

[SimonG]

Anything blocking the photocell from seeing the flame?

 

[Inverness]

No.. nothing seems to be blocking the cell.
it actually fires up and you have a flame for 2 seconds and then it shuts off,
It's the riello burner that has a closed cover plate but the cover is off when I'm testing the oil pressure.

 

[Brambles]

The symptoms you describe could be the solenoid valve, but my feeling is that the issue is combustion air (or lack of). Refer back to your first post - the combustion sequence worked. Sometimes solenoids become “sticky” when they get hot - but that is not after a few seconds.

I assume that you have checked that you have not got flame lift, by blocking off combustion air ?

With respect to the photocell, does the burner continue to repeat the firing sequence if the photocell is covered ? - until it locks out.

You referred to the boiler cutting out when you moved or touched cables - could that be moving the casing which is impacting the operation of the operable shutter?

Lastly are you absolutely sure that you are not getting poc being drawn back to the burner.

 

[Inverness]

Thanks for your help so far.
It's not the hydraulic air damper fan type. It has two screw to adjust the fan air damper. Can you explain what you mean about the operable shutter? The burner plug has been connected with a connector block.
Can you explain more about the fan?
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This type of burner does the front cover need to be on before you can take turn it on? It's a seal cover plate that has two clips that keep it sealed. Could this be the problem?

 

[Brambles]

Is this a Reillio 40 or a different model?

 

[SimonG]

I thought it was a mectron g5

 

[Inverness]

It's a riello g5x c model. The firebird casing has a metal front case that is tightly seal around the burner.

 

[Brambles]

Yes, that’s ok it is a Reillo 40 series burner. The cover needs to be on and sealed for it to operate

 

[Best]

Is the burner flange gasket in perfect condition and sealing fully?
If gases can escape from there they will be drawn directly into the rear vents on that burner.

 

[Inverness]

If the cover needs to be on how do you manage to get to adjust the oil pressure and every time you adjust the air damper you close the cover?
Would this be the reason why the co went sky high because I didn't close the cover and turn it on and it fired up and run for a while. So if the seal plate cover isn't closed while you try to start the burner it won't run??

 

[Gazzt]

You can test the coil with a multimeter, it should read 1.4 ohms between brown and blue wire and 1.4 kohm between blue and black wire.
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Are the electrodes cracked or have the correct gap settings

 

[Inverness]

I adjusted the fan and guess what after so much time and money. It worked. Sorry for wasting your time guys

 

[SimonG]

I adjusted the fan and guess what after so much time and money. It worked. Sorry for wasting your time guys

Glad you got sorted. Didn't waste any time. Nobody knows everything.

 

[Brambles]

Excellent, well done. What was the final CO value that you achieved?

 

[Inverness]

I gained 11.2% which I'm happy with the next I ever want to be there will be when I'll replace with a newboiler. Lol
Thanks for all your help! Can't express how much you guys have pushed my ability more than any books I could ever Reid. So cheers

 

[SJB060685]

Here you are Inverness