Gas Safe Engineer doing a foreigner - what should I ask?

[Anthony Pearce]

My step mother has had several quotes for a boiler replacement.

The first one was from Homeserve as she had boiler insurance. This quote is a minimum of 30% higher than the other quotes she has received when you add in the fact that it is for installation only (boiler is free!!).

One of the alternative quotes (the cheapest by £500) is from a Gas Safe registered Engineer (this is at the moment an assumption) but one doing a foreigner from his day job.

I would normally recommend that she sticks with a company but she wants me to check the guy out and see if there is any problem with using him.

What should I ask him, what are the pitfalls, should I steer clear and if so why.

I'm not sure how the Gas Safe registering works and if it is for the individual or the individual working for a company. Do you have to have public liability insurance if you do self employed installs?

I want want to dismiss the guy completely before I know what I'm talking about.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Welder]

My step mother has had several quotes for a boiler replacement.

The first one was from Homeserve as she had boiler insurance. This quote is a minimum of 30% higher than the other quotes she has received when you add in the fact that it is for installation only (boiler is free!!).

One of the alternative quotes (the cheapest by £500) is from a Gas Safe registered Engineer (this is at the moment an assumption) but one doing a foreigner from his day job.

I would normally recommend that she sticks with a company but she wants me to check the guy out and see if there is any problem with using him.

What should I ask him, what are the pitfalls, should I steer clear and if so why.

I'm not sure how the Gas Safe registering works and if it is for the individual or the individual working for a company. Do you have to have public liability insurance if you do self employed installs?

I want want to dismiss the guy completely before I know what I'm talking about.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Go back to HS and ask for a breakdown. If boiler is free then take it higher and complain to trading stds. Why should she pay for something shes insured for?

 

[townfanjon]

If you go down the route of the engineer not the company, just ask him if he can register the new boiler , if he says yes , ask him if he has his his own registration . Some companies allow , some dont .
If he says he hasnt got his own reg he can not register the boiler , but he may have a mate that
“ signs it off “ , which in the eyes of gas safe is illegal.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

TBH I would stay away from the guy doinging it on the side too many variables eg is he qualified out of work hours , does he have insurances, are you going to be able to get hold of him if anything goes wrong etc

 

[Darren Jackson]

There are many gas safe registered engineers out there that work for a company not for themselves and any gas related work they do is for that company only. Unless they actually have their own individual registration license that covers them on their own then they would be working illegal. And & would not be insured or be able to register the boiler to building control & the warenty would also be void along with your house insurance if anything was to go wrong. If you ask to see his id badge and it is in a company name he can still do the work but only if the company will allow it and they invoice you taking the responsibility on their shoulders. If it is in his name the your good to go. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Rob Foster]

My step mother has had several quotes for a boiler replacement.

The first one was from Homeserve as she had boiler insurance. This quote is a minimum of 30% higher than the other quotes she has received when you add in the fact that it is for installation only (boiler is free!!).

One of the alternative quotes (the cheapest by £500) is from a Gas Safe registered Engineer (this is at the moment an assumption) but one doing a foreigner from his day job.

I would normally recommend that she sticks with a company but she wants me to check the guy out and see if there is any problem with using him.

What should I ask him, what are the pitfalls, should I steer clear and if so why.

I'm not sure how the Gas Safe registering works and if it is for the individual or the individual working for a company. Do you have to have public liability insurance if you do self employed installs?

I want want to dismiss the guy completely before I know what I'm talking about.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Read the above and walk away this plan is so full of holes and unknowns why compromise your step mother, unless she is a wicked one. Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Scott_D]

How much is the cheap quote?
What boiler will be fitted?
What extras will be fitted eg boiler plus controls, magnetic filter?
We can probably tell straight away if it’s legitimate or dodgy

 

[Burger]

I work with someone who uses company registration for work and has his own for foreigners. He’s a good lad. So similar to what Darren stated, as in he isn’t working illegal. However look up his registration on gas safe website the you’ll know.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Go back to HS and ask for a breakdown. If boiler is free then take it higher and complain to trading stds. Why should she pay for something shes insured for?

She will not be covered for a new boiler.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Get another local sole trader in to quote and then go with him.

 

[Welder]

She will not be covered for a new boiler.

Only going by what was posted.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Only going by what was posted.

Unless it stars in the contract includes boiler replacement.

 

[Riley]

Simple answer is ask for Gas Safe card. You always should. If it’s in his name then you’re ok. If it’s in his company name then you will likely have issues

 

[Harvest Fields]

Simple answer is ask for Gas Safe card. You always should. If it’s in his name then you’re ok. If it’s in his company name then you will likely have issues

Unless he is the company

 

[Riley]

I thought they said it was a large company?

 

[Harvest Fields]

I thought they said it was a large company?

Just stating for future reference. As Some sole traders have their company name on.

 

[Millsy 82]

The problem with someone doing it on the side is.

Even if they do have there own gas registration if they dont register it you wont have any come back on them as usually it's all cash and no receipt. If you use a company or sole trader then they will give you a receipt/invoice and you have some proof they have done work in your house if you have any problems you have some comeback.

 

[Scott_D]

Y

The problem with someone doing it on the side is.

Even if they do have there own gas registration if they dont register it you wont have any come back on them as usually it's all cash and no receipt. If you use a company or sole trader then they will give you a receipt/invoice and you have some proof they have done work in your house if you have any problems you have some comeback.

You will then be trying to find someone to ‘sign it off’ and either no one will touch it with a barge pole or you will end up paying more than it would have cost to do it right first time.

 

[Millsy 82]

I get asked all the time to commission a boiler I always answer the same. Yes no problem that will be £500.00.

They always say i was expecting £50.00 then i say i will be held responsible for the boiler if there are any issues so I'm going to charge you what i would make off the install.

Funnily enough I've not had 1 person take me up on the offer.

I find people are very short sighted when it comes to cash jobs. My girlfriends grand parents had a flat roof redone. They paid cash and the bloke said "I wish I'd have known you were paying cash I would of done it 20% cheaper as I'd of taken the vat off but as I've already done the invoice I cant"
Of course now they are annoyed as they could of saved just over £200 and I turned around and said what does it say on the bottom of your invoice your roof has a warranty of 2 years on workmanship and 12 years on materials so now you are covered for any problems no invoice no proof your roof has been done by them no warranty.

It's the same with boilers they come with long warranties why pay cash and run the risk of losing that just to save a couple of hundred quid

 

[firemant]

TBH I would stay away from the guy doinging it on the side too many variables eg is he qualified out of work hours , does he have insurances, are you going to be able to get hold of him if anything goes wrong etc

While I don’t disagree with the essence of your post, how can you not be qualified some of the time

 

[Harvest Fields]

While I don’t disagree with the essence of your post, how can you not be qualified some of the time

Because it’s the law.

 

[snowhead]

how can you not be qualified some of the time

Your level of Qualifications, Experience and Training doesn't change.
Liability for the work done is the issue.

 

[firemant]

Because it’s the law.

Your level of Qualifications, Experience and Training doesn't change.
Liability for the work done is the issue.

I am nit arguing the point of the post, in that there are inherent risks in employing someone doing PJ's, but I don't see how your QUALIFICATIONS vary day to day. As opposed to memberships of trade bodies etc.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I am nit arguing the point of the post, in that there are inherent risks in employing someone doing PJ's, but I don't see how your QUALIFICATIONS vary day to day. As opposed to memberships of trade bodies etc.

If it’s not your reg your not licensed to do gas work outside company time

 

[snowhead]

but I don't see how your QUALIFICATIONS vary day to day. As opposed to memberships of trade bodies etc.

Your qualifications don't vary day to day.

No additional qualifications or assessments are required for an additional registration with Gassafe.

 

[Riley]

But you still need one

 

[Aire]

I think we can agree that Shaun meant that some engineers aren't registered to work in gas outside of their employment hours. While he said qualified instead of registered, it was obvious what he meant.

 

[Anthony Pearce]

Hi Everyone, thanks so much for all the great information.

It is pretty much how I thought things should work.

It seems that he would be legitimate if:

1) He is Gas Safe registered in his own name (I need to see and check his ID for this!)
2) He provides an invoice for the work in his own name.
3) He registers the boiler (How would I check this?).

As I said in the OP, I have already told my Step mother that I would not recommend using someone doing a foreigner but I wanted to make sure I was not discounting a perfectly legitimate tradesman who is legally allowed to do the work on his own time just because it sounded dodgy. Now I have the facts.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

(3) ask him for proof of registration normally the boiler manufacture emails you saying its reg

also building control registration proof

also if its a combi boiler hows he going to do the boiler plus requirement

 

[mattfrance]

Because it’s the law.

which law exactly? The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 state that you must be a competent person to work on gas appliances. The Gas Safe Register is not mentioned in any UK legislation, being on the register is a good way to prove that you are a competent person.

 

[Harvest Fields]

We all know that if you work for a company, then you are covered by there gas safe card. If not, you need your own. Gas safe are the governing body. They dictate who is competent or not. Take it up with them.

 

[Aire]

which law exactly? The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 state that you must be a competent person to work on gas appliances. The Gas Safe Register is not mentioned in any UK legislation, being on the register is a good way to prove that you are a competent person.

The gas safety (installation and use) regulations 1998 also state that anyone working on gas must be a member of a hse approved class of persons, which currently is the gas safe register.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

only competent person scheme atm is gas safe

 

[Stigster]

I am nit arguing the point of the post, in that there are inherent risks in employing someone doing PJ's, but I don't see how your QUALIFICATIONS vary day to day. As opposed to memberships of trade bodies etc.

By this definition there's nothing wrong with his use of the word "qualified".

"having complied with the specific requirements or precedent conditions"

 

[Harvest Fields]

Doesn’t mean he doesn’t have his own

 

[Anthony Pearce]

so after asking the relevent questions of the engineer in question:

1. He is qualified.
2. He is GS Registered with the company he works for in his day job.
3. He is not registered separately in his own name.
4. He would carry out the work but under his "good friends" registration 😱!
5. He has done loads of work like this.
6. He doesn't have PL insurance and doesnt believe he needs it. Not that I believe he could get covered in these circumstances anyway.
7. He has never had any issues but is local and would sort out any problems that arose. Including I suppose re-building the house should it burn down, blow up, or flood and invalidate the homeowners insurance.

Obviously I politely passed on this engineer.

Thank you to everyone who provided advice so I could make an informed decision.

Now I am off to do battle with Homeserve to see if I can get them to give me a reasonable quote.

 

[Millsy 82]

so after asking the relevent questions of the engineer in question:

1. He is qualified.
2. He is GS Registered with the company he works for in his day job.
3. He is not registered separately in his own name.
4. He would carry out the work but under his "good friends" registration 😱!
5. He has done loads of work like this.
6. He doesn't have PL insurance and doesnt believe he needs it. Not that I believe he could get covered in these circumstances anyway.
7. He has never had any issues but is local and would sort out any problems that arose. Including I suppose re-building the house should it burn down, blow up, or flood and invalidate the homeowners insurance.

Obviously I politely passed on this engineer.

Thank you to everyone who provided advice so I could make an informed decision.

Now I am off to do battle with Homeserve to see if I can get them to give me a reasonable quote.

1 pass his details on to gas safe and the tax man and maybe his boss.

2 dont use homeserve for your boiler change look on gas safe website to get local businesses and get a few quotes.

 

[Riley]

Totally agreed this bloke is a chancer and is breaking all sorts of rules

 

[firemant]

so after asking the relevent questions of the engineer in question:

1. He is qualified.
2. He is GS Registered with the company he works for in his day job.
3. He is not registered separately in his own name.
4. He would carry out the work but under his "good friends" registration 😱!
5. He has done loads of work like this.
6. He doesn't have PL insurance and doesnt believe he needs it. Not that I believe he could get covered in these circumstances anyway.
7. He has never had any issues but is local and would sort out any problems that arose. Including I suppose re-building the house should it burn down, blow up, or flood and invalidate the homeowners insurance.

Obviously I politely passed on this engineer.

Thank you to everyone who provided advice so I could make an informed decision.

Now I am off to do battle with Homeserve to see if I can get them to give me a reasonable quote.

Why even bother with HS? Ask around for a recommended reliable independent.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Totally agreed this bloke is a chancer and is breaking all sorts of rules

Strong opinion there mate.

 

[Riley]

No insurance no personal Gas reg accident waiting to happen in my eyes

 

[quality]

Still have to register it with building control

 

[mattfrance]

No insurance no personal Gas reg accident waiting to happen in my eyes

in this case i think you are correct, but i don't really understand how someone else can be a competent person then when they leave work suddenly they become incompetent.

 

[Millsy 82]

in this case i think you are correct, but i don't really understand how someone else can be a competent person then when they leave work suddenly they become incompetent.

In the eyes of the law to be deemed competent you must have a gas safe registration for the work you are carrying out. You are deemed incompetent if you do not have it. If you have it through work but do private jobs without then they will assume that you know you must be registered to work on it and then punish you more for it.

It doesnt matter if you are competent or not if you are not registered then you shouldn't be working on gas.

 

[Aire]

It doesnt matter if you are competent or not if you are not registered then you shouldn't be working on gas.

Not entirely true. If your doing favours for family or friends and aren't making profit on the work, then you don't need to be registered to legally work on gas.

 

[Millsy 82]

Not entirely true. If your doing favours for family or friends and aren't making profit on the work, then you don't need to be registered to legally work on gas.

This isn't about doing an unpaid job for friends or family though. I also dont see how your going to prove you weren't getting paid for it. I have heard the taxman says you owe us this and you have to prove them otherwise obviously with no receipts etc no proof of how much work you have done and I can see gas safe being the same. Obviously they wont do anything just make you join so they can take £200 a year off you.

 

[Riley]

And again it’s daft how easily this problem could be made to go away by having a clear line. If you don’t have a Gas safe card you cannot work on gas simple. None of this competence rubbish that is open to misinterpretation and abuse

 

[Millsy 82]

And again it’s daft how easily this problem could be made to go away by having a clear line. If you don’t have a Gas safe card you cannot work on gas simple. None of this competence rubbish that is open to misinterpretation and abuse

I think they should remove people for a year or 2 for working outside of their registration first time and if they do it again then remove permanently. Gas safe have the teeth of a slug and people know that.

Installer: Oh I've got caught I will pay the £500 registration fee then.
Gas safe: oh thank you your good to go.

 

[Harvest Fields]

£500,00??

 

[Riley]

There is no deterrent

 

[Millsy 82]

£500,00??

Initial isn't far off it. I think it was £480 or something like that.

 

[Millsy 82]

There is no deterrent

Exactly so the people dont really care.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Initial isn't far off it. I think it was £480 or something like that.

I’ve never paid anywhere near that!

 

[Millsy 82]

I’ve never paid anywhere near that!

Just looked. Initial is £434 after that £180.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Just looked. Initial is £434 after that £180.

Still never paid that. 😀

 

[Darren Jackson]

which law exactly? The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 state that you must be a competent person to work on gas appliances. The Gas Safe Register is not mentioned in any UK legislation, being on the register is a good way to prove that you are a competent person.

And in the eyes of the law being gas safe registered is the only acceptable proof that you are deemed a competent person.

 

[Burger]

And in the eyes of the law being gas safe registered is the only acceptable proof that you are deemed a competent person.

I thought it was your acs that deemed you competent and Gas safe allows you to work for remuneration?

 

[Riley]

It’s somantics though under current rules this engineer doesn’t meet the required criteria in order to install a boiler under his own name

 

[Aire]

I thought it was your acs that deemed you competent and Gas safe allows you to work for remuneration?

Yes but you can't turn up at someone's house and show them your acs certificates can you. You have to be registered to legally work as a business, but it also shows your customers you are competent to work on gas.

 

[Burger]

It’s somantics though under current rules this engineer doesn’t meet the required criteria in order to install a boiler under his own name

Yes mate I get that, but under gsiur you are allowed to be competent, and not be a member of an approved of an approved class of persons (currently gas safe) if working without financial reward or gain. He should indeed have his own gas safe registration to carry out this job as he’s quoted for it.

 

[Burger]

Yes but you can't turn up at someone's house and show them your acs certificates can you. You have to be registered to legally work as a business, but it also shows your customers you are competent to work on gas.

Yes I get that as well. Businesses whether self employed or not carrying out gas fitting work for financial reward or gain (which is what he’s doing) must be a member of an approved class of persons - currently gas safe.

 

[Riley]

So I’m not sure I get your argument we are in agreement that in this case the bloke can’t do the job and that was the question. I’m sick of the competent grey area

 

[Burger]

So I’m not sure I get your argument we are in agreement that in this case the bloke can’t do the job and that was the question. I’m sick of the competent grey area

It’s not an argument, just quoting what is in gsiur. We agree on the fact that the bloke can’t do the job because he’s earning money from it without his own registration yes. However I don’t have my own gas safe registration, I work for a company who is registered, yet if I leave it doesn’t make me incompetent.

 

[Riley]

But again I don’t disagree with you mate??? I’d hope you wouldn’t carry out work without your own card though

 

[Burger]

But again I don’t disagree with you mate??? I’d hope you wouldn’t carry out work without your own card though

No I wouldn’t. 🙂

 

[Stigster]

I think the most important thing apart from actually being competent, is proof of competence and a gas safe registration does that, in theory at least and legally speaking that is enough.

 

[firemant]

Still never paid that. 😀

Depends on when you started. I joined CORGI when it first became mandatory, in about 1990, so have a 5 digit number. Cost was fairly minimal IIRC

 

[Harvest Fields]

Depends on when you started. I joined CORGI when it first became mandatory, in about 1990, so have a 5 digit number. Cost was fairly minimal IIRC

Joined the year before the change over.

 

[oz-plumber]

Its all about insurance and warranty's
We have the same issues over here.

You can work for a company as a registered plumber and you are covered by their insurance.
You work for yourself, you have to have insurance for the work that you do.

Plenty of registered Plumbers have come unstuck performing work they are covered for working for a Boss, but not covered for working for themselves on the side.

Home owners aren't going to hush up if there is an insurance claim, or warranty claim, on their property regarding work done by a non insured plumber. They will fess up to who did the work and sue him / her for costs of repairs.

 

[Millsy 82]

Its all about insurance and warranty's
We have the same issues over here.

You can work for a company as a registered plumber and you are covered by their insurance.
You work for yourself, you have to have insurance for the work that you do.

Plenty of registered Plumbers have come unstuck performing work they are covered for working for a Boss, but not covered for working for themselves on the side.

Home owners aren't going to hush up if there is an insurance claim, or warranty claim, on their property regarding work done by a non insured plumber. They will fess up to who did the work and sue him / her for costs of repairs.

Problem is pay cash no receipts etc no proof they have worked in your property then then case to sue them.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Depends on when you started. I joined CORGI when it first became mandatory, in about 1990, so have a 5 digit number. Cost was fairly minimal IIRC

Don't see so many 5 digit numbers these days...ours is 5 too 😛 Not entirely sure when we joined though.