Gas safe regs - what gas work can be undertaken by other tradespersons?

[Plumb Ugly]

Although technically there are some components on some boilers you could replace legally you are putting yourself in the middle of a minefield and its really not worth the potential problems. I cringe now when I think back to when I was a newly qualified gas engineer and about how little I really knew so for someone with no formal training or experience to work on a boiler even the nono gas critical components is deeply worrying to me. Honest opinion boilers like any gas appliance are just one of those things that should be left to a pro its not worth it to save a bit of cash no matter how skint you may be at the time. This isn't meant to be a go at anyone its just my view from what iv experienced and seen over the years

 

[Plumb Ugly]

On the topic of guys not being able to diagnose faults it does come down to experience. It requires different knowledge to install a boiler as it does to fix it and not eveyone does a lot of breakdown work they maybe prefer installing I know plenty of guys that this is the case with they are brilliant fitters but don't want to go near a breakdown and vice versa I hardly ever do in installs and am slow compared to them if I do. Speed comes with practice! It comes back to the original post really about everyman to his job some faults are easy to find others a nightmare and that's where the experience comes in. So what I'm saying is if you have a breakdown and want to be sure your engineer can find it as quick as possible look for a specialist such as Alpha man on here who knows alphas inside out

 

[gav8]

You are not allowed inside any boiler!

I am not GSR and i do use guys with the right tickets to install boilers and the like. I do all other works - apart from the gas appliance install and any gas pipework!

The rest is fair play to any plumber who knows what they are doing.

If a pump/valve is outside of the boiler (ie: system boiler) then you can touch it. Otherwise its a GSR no no . . . . .

This simply is not true, you are just spreading disinformation

 

[PlumbBobBob]

This simply is not true, you are just spreading disinformation

it may be disinformation but it is also common sense surely?

 

[lame plumber]

This simply is not true, you are just spreading disinformation

so having worked on a boiler in any form are you then able to comply with the following gas regs (the law as it is defined):

(9) Where a person performs work on a gas appliance he shall immediately thereafter examine
(a) the effectiveness of any flue;
(b) the supply of combustion air;
(c) its operating pressure or heat input or, where necessary, both;
(d) its operation so as to ensure its safe functioning, and forthwith take all reasonable practicable steps to notify any defect to the responsible person and, where different, the owner of the premises in which the appliance is situated or, where neither is reasonably practicable, in the case of an appliance supplied with liquefied petroleum gas, the supplier of gas to the appliance, or, in any other case, the transporter

and if you want to peruse the rest of the regulations: http://www.miketheboilerman.com/gsiur.htm

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Its an interesting discussion and I understand what the op is gettng at. Competence is difficult notion to pin down and it has elluded the medical profession to such an extent they no longer use the term.

However, from this thread, it is clear to see that competence and Gas Safe registration has become a kind of religion, with no one willing to question the concept or demand a more detailed definition. Having read the recent Gas Competence Review, it does not seem to have explained it satifactorily either. However, we can see the problems in store, just from posts on this forum.

For example:

Am looking to shadow/work with gas safe engineer in the EN postcode area at no cost to you. I am gas safe reg, new to trade, have own tools and annalyser, need the experience before I re-locate back home after working and re-training in the area.Would be interested in instalation and fault finding. Phone 07855814337.

Read more: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/g...lic-forum/47387-experience.html#ixzz2JO15wXbc

The above person is GSR but contradicts this:

A competent person would have sufficient knowledge, training and Confidence to work out how to carry out any task in the relevant area of work.
Read more: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/c...aken-other-tradespersons-2.html#ixzz2JO1YnTeJ

 

[dontknowitall]

... How many jobs have you done where you've ended up charging your customer more because you could not diagnose a problem correctly the first time around (be it your lack of experience, or just the nature of the problem) ...

NONE!!

You will never gain a recommendation this way and recommendations are the best form of advertising.

We're not all rogues.

 

[lame plumber]

Competence is difficult notion to pin down QUOTE]

competence is a doddle to define in regard to working on gas systems. A person who has trained and passed the relevent assessments laid down by the relevant training authorities and then gains membership of the relevant registration body.

So if you have got your gas qualifications ie ccn1 and boiler or fire tickets and then join Gas Safe Register, you are deemed competant in the eyes of the law to work on fires and boilers and nothing else is deemed competent in this fine country (england and the various attached bits at present)

 

[gav8]

it may be disinformation but it is also common sense surely?

Depends really, anything unrelated to gas or airflow can be worked on by the DIYer, without any formal training.

Me and a few other lads are currently working on a load of videos that are going up on Youtube soonish, that is going to completely demystify Gas Plumbing and boiler repair, installation, inspection. We have already completed videos (just need editing) for things like Gas Valves, Pilot and Burners, Fans, Air Pressure Switches etc etc, on loads of different boilers, basically everything that a GSE will need to know, they are going to be made public though to get view count, plumbing videos on Youtube are very popular and currently there is nothing useful in relation to Gas.

The Internet truly is human kinds greatest leveler.

 

[TBServices]

Competence relating to gas refers to a member of a "competent persons scheme", in this case gas safe does it not?

 

[hammers4spanner]

Depends really, anything unrelated to gas or airflow can be worked on by the DIYer, without any formal training.

Me and a few other lads are currently working on a load of videos that are going up on Youtube soonish, that is going to completely demystify Gas Plumbing and boiler repair, installation, inspection. We have already completed videos (just need editing) for things like Gas Valves, Pilot and Burners, Fans, Air Pressure Switches etc etc, on loads of different boilers, basically everything that a GSE will need to know, they are going to be made public though to get view count, plumbing videos on Youtube are very popular and currently there is nothing useful in relation to Gas.

The Internet truly is human kinds greatest leveler.

nope the internet is business biggest danger

 

[gav8]

competence is a doddle to define in regard to working on gas systems. A person who has trained and passed the relevent assessments laid down by the relevant training authorities and then gains membership of the relevant registration body.

So if you have got your gas qualifications ie ccn1 and boiler or fire tickets and then join Gas Safe Register, you are deemed competant in the eyes of the law to work on fires and boilers and nothing else is deemed competent in this fine country (england and the various attached bits at present)

GSR is no measure of a persons competence in regards gas works, there are literally hundreds, possible thousands, that are on the GSR, but have not got a clue what they are doing, it really does need a massive overhaul, with exemptions for lifetime strikeouts from registering again for incompetent persons.

 

[hammers4spanner]

gav8 are you gsr registered?

 

[gav8]

nope the internet is business biggest danger

Care to expand on that? In the past few years people who are on GSR have uploaded hundreds of videos in relation to plumbing, TomPlum and Plumberparts, to name but two, they have covered everything that they teach you in college and then some, an average householder with a desire to learn, could literally watch all their videos and with a bit of practice, could easily be competent enough to fit a bathroom, re-pipe a house, install rads, water tanks etc etc

I can't see it effecting business that much, at the end of the day, if someone wants to learn, then that should be their right.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

GSR is no measure of a persons competence in regards gas works, there are literally hundreds, possible thousands, that are on the GSR, but have not got a clue what they are doing, it really does need a massive overhaul, with exemptions for lifetime strikeouts from registering again for incompetent persons.

I mentioned 'religion' of GSR earlier because few seem willing to question the rules, process or law.

As a long time plumber, I am also a scientist with an open mind.

As for the op's quest for 'root cause analysis' I suggest he reads Matthew Crawford's book 'shop craft is soul craft' which will explain better than I, that there is always something we do not know. Furthermore, getting diagnosis wrong, is all about experience and learning - I have got plenty of stuff wrong in my time, and will do in the future.

I suggest the op asks those in the medical profession if they ever get any diagnosis wrong...because root cause analysis has alluded them on many an occassion.

 

[lame plumber]

GSR is no measure of a persons competence in regards gas works, there are literally hundreds, possible thousands, that are on the GSR, but have not got a clue what they are doing, it really does need a massive overhaul, with exemptions for lifetime strikeouts from registering again for incompetent persons.

competence is what you have to prove to be legally allowed to work on gas! ability and experience are something else. As for as putting videos on u tube for gas appliances another saying comes to mind: " A little knowledge is dangerous" All the videos I have seen on u tube in regard to Agas and boilers and the like never cover the whole story and often miss out some of the major safety aspects, which puts people at risk. I expect yours will put more people at risk if they think its that easy then they can have a go!

 

[gav8]

gav8 are you gsr registered?

All 5 of us on this project are, 50 odd years of experience between us, bit daft of us to be doing a project like this if we weren't :hand: 5Live have already mentioned us and that is all i would like to give away at the moment.

 

[TBServices]

There's nothing useful relating to gas because its not appropriate! Lol. I still think it should be illegal to buy gas carrying parts without GS registration.

 

[Whl4852]

All 5 of us on this project are, 50 odd years of experience between us, bit daft of us to be doing a project like this if we weren't :hand: 5Live have already mentioned us and that is all i would like to give away at the moment.

How many years experience each?

 

[Dotty]

Depends really, anything unrelated to gas or airflow can be worked on by the DIYer, without any formal training.

Me and a few other lads are currently working on a load of videos that are going up on Youtube soonish, that is going to completely demystify Gas Plumbing and boiler repair, installation, inspection. We have already completed videos (just need editing) for things like Gas Valves, Pilot and Burners, Fans, Air Pressure Switches etc etc, on loads of different boilers, basically everything that a GSE will need to know, they are going to be made public though to get view count, plumbing videos on Youtube are very popular and currently there is nothing useful in relation to Gas.

The Internet truly is human kinds greatest leveler.

And you will NOT be advertising those video's on this forum.

How incredibly irresponsible!

We will not be privy to, nor part contribitutive thereof, to ANY information that promotes illegal working on a boiler!