GSR's quotes in these tough times......

[vern]

Right inspired by another older thread......to give you a feel for the job info below

Quoted a WB 28i junior and standard flue, Vokera Excel out,honeywell 927 RF stat, gas upgrade 3m, condensate to sink underneath, 5 trv's, magnaclean and flush using fernox chemicals as always.

Custard was happy, with price and 5 year warranty, so booked a date in, all good, he had 1 previous quote and I was £150 cheaper which is unusual TBH, anyhow get a call Wednesday telling me he has had it done and not to bother 😡 much cheaper price and a 5 year warranty, conversation was cold as you would expect and he did not volunteer any further info.

Fast forward to Friday after doing my ACS sorting some gear in the merchants, I hear a conversation at coffee machine, and long storey short.... bingo I have the GSR that has just undercut me, I suck as much info as I can to help with future quotes etc as you do.........right I know how much the gear is, but has he shadowed my quote? Does he get better terms? Is he working for nowt? How did he get the 5 year warranty on junior he is not WB accredited?

Underhand or not (beer at Christmas always goes down well) I found the gear he had used, exactly same as me apart from Fernox, he still paid £70 more inc vat, due to our terms etc.... Using this info and info from conversation, he had done all this graft for circa £110! Less tax, less diesel, less gas safe reg fee, less solder flux pipe fittings etc, and paid WB accredited installer to reg boiler for 5 year warranty!

How the fcuk is he making a living? I can move onto more profitable work and luckily am busy, so ain't that bothered, but when all this crap blows over I reckon this industry will be de valued forever! Utter madness considering all our skills, ACS, PL, hassles!

Forget the guys doing govies, homers, foreigners, Eastern European's "some GSR's are shafting their own" where will it stop? Doing a bit of digging same GSR Is doing services on boilers for £25!

 

[SimonG]

Should have bunged the cust a cancellation/re-stocking fee.

Is he paying tax? Is he GSR?

If he's in business it won't last long.

 

[Howsie]

That's not worth it surly?!

We almost always take a deposit at booking confirmation. 40-60% depending on the job. Oddly, never had a customer cancel, delay yes, but not cancel.

 

[tamz]

I think it is the same more or less up and down the country Vern. Times are hard for some but this stuff is madness and i hear it day in day out. The word spreads around customers and they come to expect prices like that are the norm and when the prices drop it takes a very long tie to recover.
I've lost count the number of jobs i've went to price, turned round and out the door within 5 minutes. Thanks but no thanks. Waste of time.

 

[vern]

Should have bunged the cust a cancellation/re-stocking fee.

Is he paying tax? Is he GSR?

If he's in business it won't last long.

No real problem on gear as ain't picked it up, but custard did not know that.... Yep GSR not local though checked..dunno about tax but custard was paying my via BACS so assume same for him, don't mean he declares it!

 

[vern]

That's not worth it surly?!

We almost always take a deposit at booking confirmation. 40-60% depending on the job. Oddly, never had a customer cancel, delay yes, but not cancel.

I agree pal....hence the madness comment.

 

[vern]

I think it is the same more or less up and down the country Vern. Times are hard for some but this stuff is madness and i hear it day in day out. The word spreads around customers and they come to expect prices like that are the norm and when the prices drop it takes a very long tie to recover.
I've lost count the number of jobs i've went to price, turned round and out the door within 5 minutes. Thanks but no thanks. Waste of time.

Tamz I agree, I walk or just don't go if I hear or pick up on this sort of customer/ margin via the original phone inquiry etc

This was different has I won the job against another GSR, he booked in within the day....it was a nice steady day to fill in between bigger jobs etc.....plus 5 years servicing!!

A lot of us are lucky regards our work and diversity of our skills means we will be always reasonable busy, but obviously some are not as this guy working for in reality £50!

Don't take deposits unless offered on domestic install work, but do on commercial stuff!

 

[Leo21]

There's always going to be Cupid stunts like that around. It's infuriating, but there's nothing you can do about it. Just carry on.

 

[Millsy 82]

But have they fitted magnaclean trvs roomstat upgraded the gas etc etc the chances are they have not.

 

[tamz]

Obviously the (non)customer got talking to someone after your visit who said crazy cut plumbers done mrs downtheroad for £1250 give them a ring. The word spreads and people come to expect it no matter how unrealistic or unsustainable it may be.
These idiots are more of a threat to the trade than guys working on the side as they are legit.

 

[vern]

But have they fitted magnaclean trvs roomstat upgraded the gas etc etc the chances are they have not.

Well they took stuff from the merchants, so I assume he fitted it, all but the fernox if you read my post.....

 

[vern]

Obviously the (non)customer got talking to someone after your visit who said crazy cut plumbers done mrs downtheroad for £1250 give them a ring. The word spreads and people come to expect it no matter how unrealistic or unsustainable it may be.
These idiots are more of a threat to the trade than guys working on the side as they are legit.

Yep my assumption pal, he's obviously not busy to fit it in that quick, the old Vokera was still working! I blame accredited WB guy too, as without warranty upgrade he may have stuck with me!

 

[Millsy 82]

Well they took stuff from the merchants, so I assume he fitted it, all but the fernox if you read my post.....

I just wondered if the bloke had said he fitted it all to you didnt know you went to the merchant.

 

[Destroyer2813]

Aren't juniors still 5 year warranty accredited or not, accredited make it 7

 

[vern]

I just wondered if the bloke had said he fitted it all to you didnt know you went to the merchant.

Yeah we spend a lot with merchant, he initially thought he had lost the sale as we had, until I overheard this guy chatting away.......when he looked on system we knew what he had took and he had made the sale anyhow! So merchant was happy lol, has he made more margin too lol, merchant 1 this installer 0!

 

[vern]

Aren't juniors still 5 year warranty accredited or not, accredited make it 7

Nope just Si,Ri and CDi are 7 to accredited, 5 if not........ juniors 2 year to non accredited......5 to accredited

 

[clarky101]

In future take a deposit then this wont happen, customer has been naughty here & this happened to me a while back so i phoned them and gave them some home truths

 

[R1CKY]

Aren't juniors still 5 year warranty accredited or not, accredited make it 7

5 years is only on SIs and CDIs. Installer may have made a mistake and assumed it extended to Juniors aswell.

 

[Destroyer2813]

Nope just Si,Ri and CDi are 7 to accredited, 5 if not........ juniors 2 year to non accredited......5 to accredited

Ah I see never install juniors so didn't know.

 

[vern]

In future take a deposit then this wont happen, customer has been naughty here & this happened to me a while back so i phoned them and gave them some home truths

Lol what did you say pal?

 

[vern]

Ah I see never install juniors so didn't know.

Same here pal, Si minimum normally, but I was matching 1st guys quote as custard wanted! If he would have haggled me after, I would have used a 30 Si as leverage to go with us 7 yr warranty too, so 7 years servicing too! But he never contacted me except to cancel!

 

[clarky101]

Went at them saying "they were taking the food off our table". they replied saying "the other guy was that much cheaper",
"but you booked me in & now i've got nothing for the next few days" etc etc
Thats the polite version & since then i always take 50% up front....

 

[hammers4spanner]

This is happening in abundance in the devon/cornwall areas.£200 for council or H/A boiler changes this incl;udes having to put in wireless stats.There are eastern europeans that have heat teams going around undercutting all the other installers and when i say undercutting i'm talking massively undercutting.
i have friends that are desperate for work and are doing private boiler changes for £150 labour and making next to nothing on materials.
The bubble has very much burst down in the southwest plumbing and heating vans spring up daily and its a very difficult trade to be in down here

Am not sure if its nationwide but every house i go into there seems to be a school leaver or adult who when they leave school want to be a plumber or hate the job they are in and see plumbing/heating as a licenece to print money.Funny thing is as a plumber i tell them that the market is swarming with plumbers they look at me with disbelief like i'm lying.

I personally priced alot of work prior xmas and thus far got none of it and i know i'm not overly priced starting to think what the hell is going on !!!

 

[Millsy 82]

This is happening in abundance in the devon/cornwall areas.£200 for council or H/A boiler changes this incl;udes having to put in wireless stats.There are eastern europeans that have heat teams going around undercutting all the other installers and when i say undercutting i'm talking massively undercutting.
i have friends that are desperate for work and are doing private boiler changes for £150 labour and making next to nothing on materials.
The bubble has very much burst down in the southwest plumbing and heating vans spring up daily and its a very difficult trade to be in down here

Am not sure if its nationwide but every house i go into there seems to be a school leaver or adult who when they leave school want to be a plumber or hate the job they are in and see plumbing/heating as a licenece to print money.Funny thing is as a plumber i tell them that the market is swarming with plumbers they look at me with disbelief like i'm lying.

I personally priced alot of work prior xmas and thus far got none of it and i know i'm not overly priced starting to think what the hell is going on !!!

It wont last forever the people who come into the trade thinking their gonna earn a fortune will soon leave when they find out they cant and they had a better life sat in an office then everything will start getting better. Its gonna be a fair few years though.

 

[Destroyer2813]

colleg

It wont last forever the people who come into the trade thinking their gonna earn a fortune will soon leave when they find out they cant and they had a better life sat in an office then everything will start getting better. Its gonna be a fair few years though.

One of my mates has a bloke working with him who was made redundant couple of year's ago and did a plumbing course, short story is he's thinking of going back to what he did b4 as he's not making enough money, colleges are bending the truth

 

[hammers4spanner]

training centers should be done for false advertising

 

[vern]

Think this years going to be a tough ones boys!........

 

[dave1]

I hope things pick up for you self employed chaps.

 

[SimonG]

Think this years going to be a tough ones boys!........

If it's as tough as last year then I'll be happy 🙂

 

[Millsy 82]

I hope things pick up for you self employed chaps.

It will do it will just take time without the self employed the big companies get greedy ram up there prices the customer looks out for the self employed or smaller firms to beat them.
The manufacturers will not keep these long warranties forever as it will be costing them an absolute fortune by having to employ people to carry out the work loss of earnings from parts sales.
I think eventually these training centers will get found out and people will stop using them. I'm surprised we havnt seen them on the likes of watchdog for false advertising

 

[PlumbersMate]

I've had 2 lads I know in past 2 weeks ask me how I got into plumbing. Both of them were Aerial Installers and were making good dough from the digital switch over, but the arse has well and truly fell out of that game now.
Both said " oh I fancy a bit of plumbing now how did you get into it and any chance f a job etc. " crazy hiw everyone thinks plumbers earn a fortune and its so easy to get into etc. if they bring me in few jobs a week I'd happily give them a job, that ain't gonna happen though! Lol and truth is I've still got a huge amount to learn. Im lulu I spose that I've got a couple of good lads who are always happy to help out. And of course this board, absolute god send.

 

[PlumbersMate]

Lucky not lulu lol poxy iPhone

 

[theanalyst]

There's always work if your good at what you do.
I agree, there's a lot of bandits about quoting crazy cheap prices, and then very often doing a completely shoddy job and some custards barely even notice!! lol

As Im sure most of us do, I take pride in my work and like to leave a job knowing I would be happy if that had been done on my house by someone (me!) . A lot of these cheapie 'plumbers' are complete pushfit merchants, couldn't bend or swage copper if it would save their life, and generally shouldn't be allowed to work!!!!!

 

[theanalyst]

ps// that's sh*tty luck that you lost the job. Very annoying.

Like some others have said, I would have given them a verbal earbashing and scrubbed them off my customer list.!

 

[TBServices]

At least you're out doing quotes vern, at minute I feel lucky if I get a half day job booked in, seem to be doing endless crappy little jobs.

Have got a boiler quote in pudsey on thurs though, my only competition being British gas lol.

 

[Deleted member 32524]

Why do we not have a union or similar? someone to look after our interests?

 

[tamz]

You can join Unite if you are employed.

 

[cr0ft]

Anyone looking for more work, what has really worked for me is paying one of my uncles who is coming up to retirement and looking for an odd-job. He delivers flyers for me. Around 150 an hour for £8 an hour. Each hour he does brings in around 1 job for me. Might be a small job in which case I make next to nothing, but it brings in some big jobs and I've noticed the people who phone me from the flyer already want to go with me so I'm not competing.

Works well for me anyway!

 

[mfgs]

Anyone looking for more work, what has really worked for me is paying one of my uncles who is coming up to retirement and looking for an odd-job. He delivers flyers for me. Around 150 an hour for £8 an hour. Each hour he does brings in around 1 job for me. Might be a small job in which case I make next to nothing, but it brings in some big jobs and I've noticed the people who phone me from the flyer already want to go with me so I'm not competing.

Works well for me anyway!

Last leaflet drop I did, I got my dad who is retired to do it for me for free. I have not found leaflets very effective at all though. I did 5000 last time and got one small job and two timewasters from it.

 

[peteheat]

Right inspired by another older thread......to give you a feel for the job info below

Quoted a WB 28i junior and standard flue, Vokera Excel out,honeywell 927 RF stat, gas upgrade 3m, condensate to sink underneath, 5 trv's, magnaclean and flush using fernox chemicals as always.

Custard was happy, with price and 5 year warranty, so booked a date in, all good, he had 1 previous quote and I was £150 cheaper which is unusual TBH, anyhow get a call Wednesday telling me he has had it done and not to bother 😡 much cheaper price and a 5 year warranty, conversation was cold as you would expect and he did not volunteer any further info.

Fast forward to Friday after doing my ACS sorting some gear in the merchants, I hear a conversation at coffee machine, and long storey short.... bingo I have the GSR that has just undercut me, I suck as much info as I can to help with future quotes etc as you do.........right I know how much the gear is, but has he shadowed my quote? Does he get better terms? Is he working for nowt? How did he get the 5 year warranty on junior he is not WB accredited?

Underhand or not (beer at Christmas always goes down well) I found the gear he had used, exactly same as me apart from Fernox, he still paid £70 more inc vat, due to our terms etc.... Using this info and info from conversation, he had done all this graft for circa £110! Less tax, less diesel, less gas safe reg fee, less solder flux pipe fittings etc, and paid WB accredited installer to reg boiler for 5 year warranty!

How the fcuk is he making a living? I can move onto more profitable work and luckily am busy, so ain't that bothered, but when all this crap blows over I reckon this industry will be de valued forever! Utter madness considering all our skills, ACS, PL, hassles!

Forget the guys doing govies, homers, foreigners, Eastern European's "some GSR's are shafting their own" where will it stop? Doing a bit of digging same GSR Is doing services on boilers for £25!

So he made a mistake, looking at prices quoted on this site he was only short £70.00 for a full days pay.

Therein lies the problem, too many "Boys" in a "Mans" business, they are happy to make a days pay that is equal to their gross when on the cards with a previous employer, naturally they cry when they find themselves without a few days work.

This trade is a business, one of the first things I was taught is "Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity" but then I served my time to tradesmen who were proud of their trade, a fiver for a few fittings was turned into 250, today I'm happy to spend €100 and turn it into €1,000.

Post that out in the open forum and I am a conman thief etc etc

I learned that when self employed we are business men first, the trade is our investment in knowledge that we sell and I can never get paid too much regardless of the size or difficulty of the job.

The young men who know me still ask "How does he do it" well that's a hard earned lesson that didn't come cheap.

Let him on his way, it won't take long for him to figure out the customer was laughing at him for working for £50.00 a day.