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Tape a plastic bag over pressure relief discharge pipe.

Any pipework under floors?

Hi @SimonG the pressure relief discharge pipe actually discharges straight on to the floor of the hot press. It's just a grey cement surface and no sign of any water. It is quite warm in there, so I'm not sure if a small amount of water is evaporating before I see it. I've put a small tub straight underneath it now, so should capture anything that falls out of it.

Yes, there's pipework under the flooring. It's all cemented in, so would be an absolute nightmare to get at. Again, the system has been perfectly fine for two years, but only started losing pressure a week or two after the boiler was installed.
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So is it a combi or heat only? Your original post said combi and so does identification plate but now you say it's not. Take boiler door off and send a picture of the inside. Does it have a low pressure switch? This should prevent switch live through limit stat and boiler stat to burner.

Sorry @SJB060685 that was my fault. It is just a condensing boiler. Not a combi boiler. The ID plate confused me somewhat. I spoke with the manufacturer and they said that the unit would be the one that isn't scored out on the plate, but the problem is, the marker has obviously faded, so no way of telling. The exact boiler is this one: Countryman Slimline Outdoor - http://www.turco.co.uk/countryman
 
I've had the motor out which was straightforward enough. I'm not seeing any water around, but here's some pictures of the inside with the burner removed.

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I just checked the pressure of the expansion vessel and it has gone to pretty much zero since yesterday. I've no idea if this is expected seeing the system lost all pressure overnight, or if the expansion vessel should maintain it's pressure regardless. No water discharged from the vessel, so not sure where the air went.
 
Are those fire boards inside combustion chamber? Is that a hole in pictures 2 and 3? It looks damp on refractory base. If the expansion vessel has lost its charge then you will slowly lose pressure out of PRV when heating at a constant drip. Like I said to check vessel charge it needs to be done when system is drained to get an accurate reading and of course a leak wont help. Every sealed boiler needs a low pressure switch installed and if there isn't one I don't know why
 
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I've had the motor out which was straightforward enough. I'm not seeing any water around, but here's some pictures of the inside with the burner removed.

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I just checked the pressure of the expansion vessel and it has gone to pretty much zero since yesterday. I've no idea if this is expected seeing the system lost all pressure overnight, or if the expansion vessel should maintain it's pressure regardless. No water discharged from the vessel, so not sure where the air went.

Your boiler expansion vessel should have air in it. Could be faulty - air valve leaking air or diaphragm inside it ruptured. Needs vessel air charge redone to test.
There is something blocking your burner inside the boiler and it should not be used without an oil engineer sorting it all. Burner could destroy itself as well as burn badly and sooting boiler.
 
As Best has said and what I was getting at above. They look like fire boards inside the chamber, these will restrict burner operation, resulting in poor performance and more. The only reason I can think of them being there is to mask a problem. If the vessel diaphragm is ruptured it will fill with water, leaving no room for expansion, the pressure will easily rise to 3 bar and the PRV will discharge, if the valve on top is faulty as well then the same will happen
 
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Are those fire boards inside combustion chamber? Is that a hole in pictures 2 and 3? It looks damp on refractory base. If the expansion vessel has lost its charge then you will slowly lose pressure out of PRV when heating at a constant drip. Like I said to check vessel charge it needs to be done when system is drained to get an accurate reading and of course a leak wont help. Every sealed boiler needs a low pressure switch installed and if there isn't one I don't know why

Not sure if it's a fire board or some sort of steel bar, but it looks to be part of the unit.
No, I think it must be a particular hot point that is showing a burn mark that looks like a hole. From eyeballing it, I don't believe it's a hole.

Ok, so maybe we're getting somewhere. I let the remaining air out of the expansion vessel with the heating switched off. The pressure gauge directly connected to the vessel read 0. I pumped the vessel up to 1.5 bar this time as per the spec, so both the reading on the pump gauge and the vessel gauge read 1.5 bar. I set a tray under the pressure relief discharge pipe (which goes directly to the floor under the vessel), then turned on the heating system and watched the gauge. I could hear this creaking sound, like a spring. Then low and behold, drips of water on to the tray from the pressure relief discharge pipe. I never noticed any water here before. I was expecting it to gush out for some reason. Does this mean the vessel is faulty? I'm starting to think I might have caused this. About a week after the boiler was installed, I bled all the rads. I made a bit of a balls of it to be honest. Once I bled them, I topped up the system using the filling loop. I never thought anything of it. I bled the rads a second time and made a much better job of it (in terms of heat from the rads). So maybe I did something incorrectly?

One thing I'm struggling to get my head around is the correlation between water and air in the system. When I use the filling loop, I am putting more water in the system I believe, so if there's no leak, where does it all go? When I pump up the vessel with a pump, the gauge moves up as expected, but I didn't add any more water to the system. This is what is confusing me the most. Thanks for all your help so far and I'm sorry for the noob questions!
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Your boiler expansion vessel should have air in it. Could be faulty - air valve leaking air or diaphragm inside it ruptured. Needs vessel air charge redone to test.
There is something blocking your burner inside the boiler and it should not be used without an oil engineer sorting it all. Burner could destroy itself as well as burn badly and sooting boiler.

Thanks @Best I've just posted an update, suspecting there might be an issue with the vessel. Are you saying that the burner is being blocked by looking at the pictures or is this just a possibility? I believe you are local to me so if you want a bit of work if I can't get this fixed I would really appreciate it. Thanks!
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As Best has said and what I was getting at above. They look like fire boards inside the chamber, these will restrict burner operation, resulting in poor performance and more. The only reason I can think of them being there is to mask a problem. If the vessel diaphragm is ruptured it will fill with water, leaving no room for expansion, the pressure will easily rise to 3 bar and the PRV will discharge, if the valve on top is faulty as well then the same will happen
I'm going to call the manufacturer and find out what this bar thing is. I will let you know the outcome.

My pressure gauge did not move upwards at all. It stayed at 1.5 bar, then I heard the spring of the pressure relief discharge pipe and then noticed a few drops of water. I can see the pressure has dropped slightly in the past hour, so the issue is still there. Thanks.
 
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When you open the filling loop you are adding water from empty yes. When the system is full you are just increasing the pressure inside, yes you're adding a little more water to go from 1 to 1.5 bar for example but its minimal. Even if a system was pressurized to 1000 bar you're only increasing its density slightly. Density and pressure are closely related. The vessel charge should be set to about .2 - .5 bar under system pressure, something has to give in order to accumulate the expansion of water, in this case the diaphragm. If both set to same then the charges fight each other until one gives way by which time the boiler pressure has increased and getting close to PRV setting.
Drain boiler, electrically isolate and recharge vessel to what I said, leave for an hour and check again, from what you've said I expect it to have lost its charge and bingo we have your culprit, or at least one of them. Further more as Best and I both stated, firing that burner up with restrictions is NOT advisable at all, that's another problem that is equally, if not more important than losing pressure.

Edit: have read above comment.
If the vessel is ok after an hour then it sounds from what you just said that the PRV is faulty, they have a spring inside set to a certain force that opens when that pressure is reached. These can fail both ways, not work at all or open prematurely losing pressure
 
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When you open the filling loop you are adding water from empty yes. When the system is full you are just increasing the pressure inside, yes you're adding a little more water to go from 1 to 1.5 bar for example but its minimal. Even if a system was pressurized to 1000 bar you're only increasing its density slightly. Density and pressure are closely related. The vessel charge should be set to about .2 - .5 bar under system pressure, something has to give in order to accumulate the expansion of water, in this case the diaphragm. If both set to same then the charges fight each other until one gives way by which time the boiler pressure has increased and getting close to PRV setting.
Drain boiler, electrically isolate and recharge vessel to what I said, leave for an hour and check again, from what you've said I expect it to have lost its charge and bingo we have your culprit, or at least one of them. Further more as Best and I both stated, firing that burner up with restrictions is NOT advisable at all, that's another problem that is equally, if not more important than losing pressure.

Edit: have read above comment.
If the vessel is ok after an hour then it sounds from what you just said that the PRV is faulty, they have a spring inside set to a certain force that opens when that pressure is reached. These can fail both ways, not work at all or open prematurely losing pressure

Thanks @SJB060685 that is an extremely helpful post. You've explained that brilliantly. I'm going to find out what this thing is in the burner combustion chamber and let you know. Thanks again!
 
Hi,

This is not a DIY job, you must consult 'Registered Professional Gas Engineer' plumber for this issue.

As there so many criteria to check before come to the conclusion.
It must be leaking somewhere in the system as you need to keep topping it up.

1. Pipe fittings and pipes
2. Pressure relief valve
3. Auto air vent
4. Into the combustion chamber as you can't see this leak as it's run's straight into drain
5. Check your CO detector and ensure its working as combustion chamber leaks give so much problem like light headache étc..
6. Leak in expansion vessel or small expansion vessel
And so many other criteria...

In your case, it must be boiler problem and please seek 'Registered Professional Gas Engineer' plumber advice.

All the best and happy Xmas

Registered gas engineer is no good for an oil boiler! Unless they do both.
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Was your old system open vented or sealed?
 
@SJB060685 @Best I've spoken with the manufacturer and you are both correct. They said no, that fire board shouldn't be there. It's supposed to be in the base of the combustion chamber. What's likely happened is that it has become dislodged in transit. I'm awaiting a response from the installer to see if either I can push it back down into place, or he can come look at it.

On another note, I had the heating system in for a while there (before I found out about this fire board) and the pressure actually increased slightly. I've not noticed any increase in pressure at all since I noticed the fault, unless I manually did it via the filling loop. I'll keep an eye on how much it drops over the next hour or two, then I'll try draining the system and checking the expansion vessel properly. Thanks again!
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Registered gas engineer is no good for an oil boiler! Unless they do both.
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Was your old system open vented or sealed?
It was sealed. The only thing in the system that has been replaced is the boiler/burner. Everything else has remained the same. The boiler it replaced was extremely old and very hard on oil. This new(er) boiler is miles more efficient. Probably 3-4 times more I'd say.
 
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You should have a refractory base in boiler bottom yes but there seems to be fire board on all three sides of chamber, like I said the only reason I can think of is to repair or mask a problem. Do your checks and let us know in an hour.
PS. You've mentioned several times about how much more efficient it is but I'm willing to bet the guy who installed it probably didn't commission it properly either, you might find theres more to be had yet but this requires an engineer.
 
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You should have a refractory base in boiler bottom yes but there seems to be fire board on all three sides of chamber, like I said the only reason I can think of is to repair or mask a problem. Do your checks and let us know in an hour.
PS. You've mentioned several times about how much more efficient it is but I'm willing to bet the guy who installed it probably didn't commission it properly either, you might find theres more to be had yet but this requires an engineer.

Thanks @SJB060685 I don't know if I'll get it done in an hour. It's absolutely lashing outside 😁

Yes I'm sure you are correct about the efficiency. There's probably more to be had. For example, there's no insulation on any of the pipework. I'm sure that doesn't help. There's also a giant hole where the old boiler flue was. It has been very much patched up. There's a small run of about 3-4 inches of copper pipe from the back of the boiler house to the garage that is exposed to the elements too. None of this can help the efficiency surely.

Yes, sorry to keep banging on about it, but we didn't realise how rubbish the old system was. It cost a clean fortune to run the heating system. Once we get these issues sorted, I plan to put insulltion round all the pipes at least from the outside, into the garage loft until it gets to the house wall (it's an attached garage). None of the pipes are tied down either, so they rattle around a lot and they are very easy to lift. I'd like to secure them somehow, but all that will come later.
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Ok, so I've inspected the boiler again and it seems that part of the surround has come loose. I've pushed it to the bottom for now, so the top is a bit exposed. Not sure of the short time significance of this, but guessing I'll need to secure or again to the top somehow.

Incidentally, the pressure has dropped rather fast from 1.5 bar to about 0.75 bar in the last 1-2 hours. Not sure if me messing about with the oil burner has made this worse than normal.

I'm going to drain the system later today if I can and do as @SJB060685 said about checking the vessel. Thanks!

Roof of combustion chamber:

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For now let's just find the cause of the pressure dropping without the boiler running. The boiler is something you need to get an engineer out for, I appreciate this close to Christmas you don't like that idea but from what I can make out from what little I can see in photos it shouldn't be fired up.
 
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For now let's just find the cause of the pressure dropping without the boiler running. The boiler is something you need to get an engineer out for, I appreciate this close to Christmas you don't like that idea but from what I can make out from what little I can see in photos it shouldn't be fired up.

Thanks. I don't think I'll be able to do without the boiler over Christmas with the sub-zero temperatures we're getting, but if it does fail then I'd be expecting some help from the installer. I have emergency home heating cover with my home insurance in case it does fail completely. I'll let you know how I get on with draining the system. The pressure has almost dropped to zero now. It has dropped very rapidly in the past few hours.
 
I would be really surprised if your home cover, covers an oil boiler. Seen many a customer in the past with 'cover' to find out they're not!
I don't see what choice I have really. There's just no way I can leave the heating off until after Christmas. I'll try and get it checked before Christmas, but it seems unlikely.
 
The more you put on here the more Mickey mouse the install sounds.
Second hand boiler, un insulated pipes outside, installer not getting back to you.

Any pics of the outside of boiler and new pipework?

Might be worth trying to get hold of a decent oil guy and go from there. Bin off your installer.

Its either the ev or leaking underground pipes. But theres also something not right in the combustion chamber.
 
The quickest way to test this is to drain the system and fit isolation valves to the boiler flow and return. Thereafter pressure test the boiler. From the photos you have posted, to me, it all points to boiler feed water leaking into the combustion chamber. The surfaces you have photographed should look like a slightly singed digestive biscuit - not like a barnacle encrusted hull of a boat.

Whilst I can understand that you want to continue to try to use the boiler - if the exchanger is leaking, unless the boiler is on load 24/7 (evaporating the leak at source), it will quickly fail to a point where it is unusable. The damp refractory linings / protection boards will disintegrate allowing the flame / heat to attack the inner then outer casing.
 
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