help with powerflush quote

[mutley racers]

client had BG in to do powerflush but as the refurb was not complete, BG cancelled it. I have their quote and am wondering what I should really charge. it is in knightsbridge, has 16 rads over 4 floors rad sizes are 600x1000, 500x1400, 600x1000, 600x1200, 500x1000, 3x500x1000, 400x2000, 400x1800, 2x750x2000 and 3 towel rads. all doubles i believe.

BG quoted it as 2 flushes. Can you guess their price?

Am I allowed to post this information on BG

 

[clarky101]

£100 less than them....

 

[mutley racers]

£100 less than them....

that would be nice

 

[clarky101]

If your feeling a bit guilty bang it in £250 under theirs....

 

[AWheating]

bg quote = £1200 ??

 

[mutley racers]

bg quote = £1200 ??

Spot on. + vat it is £1498

 

[Rickster123]

Blimey! £1000 is a lovely round number mutley. And looks lovely in crisp tenders.

 

[jase158]

add the chemicals 2 x cleaner, 2 x inhibitor. and 2 days labour, add fuel plus £60 towards power flush/ rental and there's your price

 

[mutley racers]

1k does sound nice. hey. 2 days, i would have thought i could get it done in around 14hrs. 8-2200. Am i wrong? it is a sealed system. just not looking forward to running up and down 3 flights of stairs all day

 

[Rickster123]

1k does sound nice. hey. 2 days, i would have thought i could get it done in around 14hrs. 8-2200. Am i wrong? it is a sealed system. just not looking forward to running up and down 3 flights of stairs all day

Why run when you can walk. Don't rush it. Take three days and make sure your price covers you for that.

 

[jase158]

16 rads times 15 minutes per rad plus hour setting up, hour to clean system out. and half hour taking down. Plus 2 hours removing air locks, could be done in a day, but my price would be £350 anyway

 

[villa_tom]

There will be a filter in with BGs price though, so you'd have to fit that too.

If they've give you BGs quote then just quite a few quid less and you'll get the job surely.

 

[villa_tom]

add the chemicals 2 x cleaner, 2 x inhibitor. and 2 days labour, add fuel plus £60 towards power flush/ rental and there's your price

If you knew someone was willing to pay 1200 quid and you charged 350 quid then you're insane

 

[jase158]

No, just too hhonest, if they look on my website they will see my prices and wonder why they paid 600 pound more then my advertised price

 

[Rickster123]

No, just too hhonest, if they look on my website they will see my prices and wonder why they paid 600 pound more then my advertised price

Do you advertise 350 regardless of system size?

 

[mutley racers]

There will be a filter in with BGs price though, so you'd have to fit that too.

If they've give you BGs quote then just quite a few quid less and you'll get the job surely.

hey Tom, thanks for info, it already has a filter on it. So just a straight swop. I would usually charge 250-300 for a 8 rad system, so that would make it 2 flushes. And BG have classed it as 2 flushes also

 

[mutley racers]

16 rads times 15 minutes per rad plus hour setting up, hour to clean system out. and half hour taking down. Plus 2 hours removing air locks, could be done in a day, but my price would be £350 anyway

Air locks, no air locks as its a sealed system jase. the system always ends up filled with the power flusher any way when adding inhibitor

 

[jase158]

300 for 0-10, 350 for 10-20, above 20. Is different. Regardless of system or single or double rads, there aint much difference between singles and doubles, you can't remove one panel from the other panel!!

 

[mutley racers]

'there aint much difference between singles and doubles'

sounds good though!!!

 

[jase158]

Sealed or open vent they always have air locks, powerflusher pump let's a lot of air into the system. And usually there is stupidly long runs that go up and down all over the place, I would even go as far to bet 100 pound that you will get an air lock with 16 rads

 

[jase158]

Most companies in my area charge extra for double rads, scam in my eyes, I offer powerflushing at a fair price and do a good job, in winter I am jam packed with powerflushing, what else can one ask for!!

 

[mutley racers]

wow that is a result, it wasn't long ago that you were trying to sell that flusher machine. you must be chuffed

 

[jase158]

Yeah defo, biggest asset in my businees at moment except van

 

[mutley racers]

what machine do you have jase

 

[mutley racers]

so if i go in at 1k, it is really only £198 cheaper as am not vat registered. it does look better than the £1498 though hey

 

[Rickster123]

so if i go in at 1k, it is really only £198 cheaper as am not vat registered. it does look better than the £1498 though hey

Go for it mate. Be bold!

 

[erpkid]

No, just too hhonest, if they look on my website they will see my prices and wonder why they paid 600 pound more then my advertised price

I would change the website pricing or make it from £350.00. BTW £350.00 is our usual price too :smiley2:

 

[clarky101]

so if i go in at 1k, it is really only £198 cheaper as am not vat registered. it does look better than the £1498 though hey

go £995 inc, you feel better, they feel good also....win win....

 

[mutley racers]

the thing is, it is for a guy i work for a bit and am sure he wants to make a bit of cash off it also

 

[clarky101]

They've got the bg quote, your gonna be under by £400 plus, so there's enough to bung yer man whatever you want....win, win....

 

[mutley racers]

I would change the website pricing or make it from £350.00. BTW £350.00 is our usual price too :smiley2:

for how many rads? and each rad after that? And is this including all chemicals? Also, you know the BG gas quote, would you still go in this cheap? Or what would you price?

 

[mfgs]

I would go in about 900ish personally. Looks substantially cheaper and still a huge profit for an easy two days work.

 

[mutley racers]

I would go in about 900ish personally. Looks substantially cheaper and still a huge profit for an easy two days work.

now that certainly is another thought. For some reason i am thinking if i go in to high i won't get it, as everyone knows BG are a rip off

 

[Rickster123]

now that certainly is another thought. For some reason i am thinking if i go in to high i won't get it, as everyone knows BG are a rip off

Not everyone knows. That's why they are still in business!

 

[plumber0808]

I would charge £500-£650 depending on how bad the system is. I would also take my time and do it over 2 days.

it is still a powerflush the same as any other regardless how much BG quoted. Don't put yourself in a position that can come back at you by basically upping your price just because BG have quoted X amount.

charge all customers my standard price.

 

[mutley racers]

also, the parking each day will be £37. so am going to go with mfgs and go for £900. Thanks guys, wish me luck. Should be a nice £350 a day

 

[stoker122]

300 for 0-10, 350 for 10-20, above 20. Is different. Regardless of system or single or double rads, there aint much difference between singles and doubles, you can't remove one panel from the other panel!!

Is that in Knightsbridge though?

 

[mutley racers]

yes it is

 

[mutley racers]

Is that in Knightsbridge though?

oh, sorry stoker, thought you were talking to me

 

[stoker122]

also, the parking each day will be £37. so am going to go with mfgs and go for £900. Thanks guys, wish me luck. Should be a nice £350 a day

Fair play, do the long day and bag the £700 🙂

 

[southcoastboile]

£890!

 

[Killy Bing]

Don't forget congestion charges?

 

[AWheating]

15mins a rad seems short to me, it feels like forever waiting for the tds readings to drop.

i know a lad who powerflushes at an average price between £180 - £250, he does 6-7 a week most of the time and loves it. I dont think hes Gas safe tho so i dont know how he goes about removing the plate hex or attaching to pump in most HE boilers?

i think id price £7-800 with a filter, 2 days work.

 

[jase158]

I use Kamco CF90, I would still charge £350, customer happy, I may get more work and I sleep at night. Even charging £350 I still make way over my usual day rate including chemicals and fuel. The way I see it is don't think about what you could make but think about what you are making. so for instance if I am quiet I will labour for a friend for £50, which is better then staying at home and earning nothing. If I quote £900 because BG quoted £1400, I may loose that job even. so £350 is better then nothing. If somebody offered me £20 quid for a days labour, I would take it, because its better then earning nothing. As things change and I am too busy, then my prices will go up and I will stick to plumbing only, but at the moment beggars cant be choosers.

 

[jase158]

15mins a rad seems short to me, it feels like forever waiting for the tds readings to drop.

i know a lad who powerflushes at an average price between £180 - £250, he does 6-7 a week most of the time and loves it. I dont think hes Gas safe tho so i dont know how he goes about removing the plate hex or attaching to pump in most HE boilers?

i think id price £7-800 with a filter, 2 days work.

That's 15 minutes on the initial flush not the cleaning out process. Kamco recommend 15 minutes. 15 minutes on the initial then go round and clean each rad until it runs clear. (not misty) I need to invest in the TDS meter

 

[Mike Jackson]

add the chemicals 2 x cleaner, 2 x inhibitor. and 2 days labour, add fuel plus £60 towards power flush/ rental and there's your price

With 16 double rads you're not putting enough inhibitor in. Recommendation is 1 bottle does ten single rads so for 16 doubles you're going to want 3 or 4..

Ignoring that looking at your price of £350 take off £60 for hire of machine gives us £290. 4 bottles of fluid, £60, we're down to £230. Two days parking, £74, were looking at £156. Lets be miserly and allow £6 for fuel. That gives us £150 for 2 days labour. Do you really work for £75 a day?

 

[PlumbersMate]

£350 is stupidly low IMO . I'd charge that for 7 rads in a standard home

 

[mutley racers]

looks like i might get this job. think i should buy a machine now. debating between proflush themea or kamco cf90? Leaning more towards the proflush. llike the heater part

 

[mutley racers]

cannot find them 2nd hand at all. cannot actually find a price unless i contact the manufacturer. anyone got a proflush they want to sell???:smile:

 

[jase158]

With 16 double rads you're not putting enough inhibitor in. Recommendation is 1 bottle does ten single rads so for 16 doubles you're going to want 3 or 4..

Ignoring that looking at your price of £350 take off £60 for hire of machine gives us £290. 4 bottles of fluid, £60, we're down to £230. Two days parking, £74, were looking at £156. Lets be miserly and allow £6 for fuel. That gives us £150 for 2 days labour. Do you really work for £75 a day?

Already got machine so wouldn't pay £60 for machine, definetly wouldn't pay £74 for parking, if they want me to do it then they get me a visitors permit and it wouldn't take me 2 days, I would get there at 7.30am and finish at 7-8pm. so total cost is £60 chemicals, £6 fuel, so still making £284 for a long days labour. If I lived in London and had congestion charge, parking etc then my price would go up, but then I expect everyone else in London charges more.

 

[kay-jay]

Just cos you have the machine doesn't mean you don't charge for its hire Jase

 

[mutley racers]

i see from older posts kay jay that you have a proflush. Do you recommend them?

 

[Roger Welton]

I have a proflush and would have another (heater would be handy but I still haven't got one)

 

[mutley racers]

Thanks roger, can you tell me a rough price for these? as i cannot see it any where. looks like it is only the manufacturer who sells them and no price is on the website

 

[Roger Welton]

I got mine second hand but think they are similar in price to cf90, would need to speak to one of their reps

 

[kay-jay]

Got proflush with heater. Its a good machine but where possible i use the heat from a working boiler and the magnacleanse in tandem.
The heater takes a good while to heat up on its own but the flusher is a great machine but larger than most others

 

[Mike Jackson]

Already got machine so wouldn't pay £60 for machine, definetly wouldn't pay £74 for parking, if they want me to do it then they get me a visitors permit and it wouldn't take me 2 days, I would get there at 7.30am and finish at 7-8pm. so total cost is £60 chemicals, £6 fuel, so still making £284 for a long days labour. If I lived in London and had congestion charge, parking etc then my price would go up, but then I expect everyone else in London charges more.

Make your mind up. You said it was two days work in another post. Even if you can squeeze a two day job into one day you should still charge two days money for it, it's you that's going home knackered for the benefit of the customer. you've also got the issue of being cream crackered the next day after a 12 hour day. You can't keep doing 12 hour days without it starting to affect your performance.

What happens when your powerflush machine packs up after you've been not charging for it's use? You've got to replace or repair it out of your own pocket.

IMHO you need to revisit your business model as it sounds to me you're heading towards being a busy fool. Work for a good price and work sensibly. I've done the 12 hour days, 6 days a week before and I'd then spend half of Sunday akip on the sofa because I was knackered. Don't live to work, work to live.

 

[clarky101]

By your plan, would you do a boiler change the same way....in a long day for say £250-300 ? Labour only....

 

[jase158]

By your plan, would you do a boiler change the same way....in a long day for say £250-300 ? Labour only....

Everyone I know does!!! start at 8am and finnish at 5-6pm, straight swaps, don't know there prices though!!

 

[AWheating]

business costs are sometimes hard to account for but need to be considerd for each job. Van costs are many thousands a year alone.

equipment cost need to be factor'd in wether you have rented or brought as it will need replacing or repairing as you go. If you add up the costs of stuff like the machine, hoses and fittings, pump/plate hex adaptors, magnetic filter, tds meter, ph meter, infra red thermo etc.... its very expensive.

can somebody tell me how non gas safe registerd engineers attach there machines without removing the appliance covers on HE models?? Many of these deadicated power flush companies dont employ GSR's from what i can see. The guy who started the biggest national company was not even a plumber.

 

[AWheating]

Everyone I know does!!! start at 8am and finnish at 5-6pm, straight swaps, don't know there prices though!!

i agree its pretty standard to do boiler changes in a day, straight swaps in a few hours sometimes, tho its also standard for them not to be done as good as they should be imo. Especially landlord/council work. In the end the customer will get what they pay for most times.

 

[jase158]

simple connect to pump on regular boilers or connect to flow or return on combi boiler just underneath, no cover taken off. to be honest though, most combi's I have done they have had a magnaclean fitted so I drain down and connect to this, then just turn magnaclean iso's off and then put magnaclean on.

 

[AWheating]

simple connect to pump on regular boilers or connect to flow or return on combi boiler just underneath, no cover taken off. to be honest though, most combi's I have done they have had a magnaclean fitted so I drain down and connect to this, then just turn magnaclean iso's off and then put magnaclean on.

so you dont flush the boiler or the plate hex?

 

[jase158]

Make your mind up. You said it was two days work in another post. Even if you can squeeze a two day job into one day you should still charge two days money for it, it's you that's going home knackered for the benefit of the customer. you've also got the issue of being cream crackered the next day after a 12 hour day. You can't keep doing 12 hour days without it starting to affect your performance.

What happens when your powerflush machine packs up after you've been not charging for it's use? You've got to replace or repair it out of your own pocket.

IMHO you need to revisit your business model as it sounds to me you're heading towards being a busy fool. Work for a good price and work sensibly. I've done the 12 hour days, 6 days a week before and I'd then spend half of Sunday akip on the sofa because I was knackered. Don't live to work, work to live.

I said he should charge 2 days, but I would do it in a day. Even with charging £350, I am left with £280 which equals £60 for power flush and still leaves me £220 which is good for a days labour. and if I added my years power flushes together and took times that by £20 I would get the price of my power flush machine. I am actually looking at my business model and I will be changing things but I would rather be a busy fool then a poor fool.

 

[jase158]

so you dont flush the boiler or the plate hex?

Yes, flush the boiler as you go, connect to the return and it pushes it all out the boiler rather then into the boiler. The heat exchange is impossible unless you are Gas safe, except to turn on the hot water and let the boiler pump do the flush and then turn it off, do this several times when cleaning out, doesn't do it properly though

 

[mutley racers]

the proflush i just bought said the best method of attaching is on the radiator tails, as if you remove the circulating pump, the boiler wont work

 

[jase158]

That's rubbish!!

 

[mutley racers]

what is? attaching to the tails, or the boiler won't work? Or both. it shows it on the site

 

[jase158]

Boiler not working, if you take the pump out it will still work but will overheat if power flush isn't connected, connecting to the tails gives less flow rates and from my experience doesn't do the job as well.

 

[mutley racers]

sitting at home waiting for the delivery of my Norstrom proflush. So excited. A new tool!!!!

Cost me £1100 big ones howsie!!! Am still upset I missed out on eco's which you got. On my door step. Still, this job pays for it pretty much. And it comes with a 3yr warranty

 

[mutley racers]

yipeeee it arrived today..... Am going to go and do a leaflet drop...powerflush £100 to the 1st lucky 11. To get it paid for

 

[mutley racers]

kidding

 

[TBServices]

Boiler not working, if you take the pump out it will still work but will overheat if power flush isn't connected, connecting to the tails gives less flow rates and from my experience doesn't do the job as well.

And what experience you have

 

[mutley racers]

so when flushing a sealed system, without a pump head adaptor, do you just disconnect the live to pump and connect into mag filter? only ever flushed open vented systems

 

[jase158]

can leave the pump going according to Kamco!! the powerflush wont affect pump, but what you say is basically what I do,

 

[jase158]

And what experience you have

what do you mean?

 

[Rickster123]

yipeeee it arrived today.....View attachment 13531 Am going to go and do a leaflet drop...powerflush £100 to the 1st lucky 11. To get it paid for

Looks good mate. I couldn't bring myself to part with 1100 notes tho!

 

[mutley racers]

Looks good mate. I couldn't bring myself to part with 1100 notes tho!

but, i thought we all agrred it was a good deal???? because i got the job for 900 smackers. Which pays for its self

 

[mutley racers]

can leave the pump going according to Kamco!! the powerflush wont affect pump, but what you say is basically what I do,

oh sorry jase, I was on about a system boiler

 

[jase158]

oh sorry jase, I was on about a system boiler

Yeah according to Kamco, on any system you could connect to filter/ rads/ anywhere else and leave pump going and the power flush wont affect it. If it is combi I take connection from below boiler (pump adaptor if gas safe) conventional boiler I take it from pump. Disconnect live from pump which stops it running dry and if open vent link the feed and vent (or cap it if being lazy)

 

[mutley racers]

how do you take the connection from below the boiler when the boiler is there? Do you cut into pipes? If you leave the pump with the live in, and go back and fourth on the flow, then the flusher will be going against the flow of the pump. strange why they would say it is ok

 

[SafeGasInstall]

mate you never run boiler pump along with powerflush ........., you turn of pf and then use boiler pump to heat the water

or you will burn the pump

or you could remove pump and connect pf there

 

[mutley racers]

cheers safegas. It is confusing though as on kamco site it says not a problem to do this. But, can I not just disconnect the power to pump in boiler and run boiler on pf

 

[SafeGasInstall]

you can but then due to the fact that power flushes pump is a lot more powerful water will go through the he alot quicker and will take forever to heat up the water !

 

[mutley racers]

ok, cool. So really it is just best to purge of debris with pf, and cleanser through pf, close pf and turn on boiler and run until rads are hot, turn off boiler and use pf to finish off

 

[SafeGasInstall]

And flush one rad a time only ! Also isolate cylinder and remove auto bypass if there is one

 

[mutley racers]

Cylinder needs to be flushed. You mean, treat cylinder coil as an extra rad right? Can you manually set the diverter in a system boiler, or can i just use the controls

 

[mutley racers]

think i need to purchase one of those pump head adaptors. Will make life a lot easier

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Yes cylinder separated ! Integral diverted is only in viessmenn boilers ! With them I will cut in to the hot water side and will pf cylinder separated

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I got one of them adapters but never used it , you can have it if you like for half the price ! It has been sitting in my van tray for like 2 years now and never been used

 

[mutley racers]

why can you not just put the programmer on hot water and flush it like that. Just take the live out of the boiler pump? seems a bit drastic cutting into it. But if that is the only way.

Which pump head adaptor do you have? I see the fernox one is like £125. And others are £40-£50

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I will post picture of it tomorrow ! I got my e from Norstrom .... Cos I have one of there pf

 

[mutley racers]

that is the one i just bought, a norstrom proflush

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Well done you got the best

 

[helpsy]

That's 15 minutes on the initial flush not the cleaning out process. Kamco recommend 15 minutes. 15 minutes on the initial then go round and clean each rad until it runs clear. (not misty) I need to invest in the TDS meter

Hi Jase158
i got the TDS and PH meters the same as Kamco sell for an absolute fraction of the price from Laboratory supplies, virkon disinfectant, infection control . I also have the CF 90 and I bought a 60litre high sided strong plastic tray for it to sit in as well to avoid costly carpet/flooring damage

 

[helpsy]

If connection is on flow/return at rad pipes they recommend taking out the rad valves as more resistance and no good this way for micro bore . Kamco pump head adaptor is £90. I've just ordered the magnetic filter to operate in series with the pump. £336

 

[mutley racers]

Hey safegasinstall, did you find that pump head adaptor? Hoe much do yu want for it. I believe I got the best also. Like it's I does

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Pm me your e mail and I will mail you tonight after work .

thx
stAn

 

[jase158]

Adey are giving away free magnacleanse connectors to connect straight onto magnaclean 2 connections, visit website for details, mine is in post

 

[jase158]

Log in » Adey Installers Club you need to login to reach this area