Keston vs Ideal Logic?

[skippy]

I've currently got a Keston C36 due to a longish flue run but looking to replace it. The flue can't be changed easily (buried in a roof void).

I see that Keston were bought out by Ideal a while back and the new Kestons (C30 / C35) are rebadged Ideal Logics.

The Ideal Logic is cheaper to buy and comes with a much longer warranty (7 years!) vs 2 years for the Keston, which makes the Ideal very appealing.

Does anyone know if it's possible to use and Ideal Logic with a Keston dual flue? I'm guessing not but thought I'd check.

Quite odd if there is such a difference for what essentially seem to be the same thing.

Cheers.

 

[Hirstgas]

Doubt it.
But if the flue is buried in void don't forget the flues in voids regulation

 

[Roger Welton]

You'd be right in thinking its not.

 

[Killy Bing]

No sadly.
i would not put another keston in either.
Look at relocating the boiler unless it really is not an option

 

[skippy]

"Look at relocating the boiler unless it really is not an option"
Sadly not - only option would be to put it in a bedroom, which is not a great option.

"i would not put another keston in either."
They certainly get a lot of negative feedback - though I have seen a few comments suggesting the new 'Ideal' Kestons are better.

I must say that the difference in warranty does make me consider some flue re-work though.

 

[TBServices]

Are the new keston boilers completely diff boilers to the logic then? Case is identical.

 

[Scott_D]

Sadly not - only option would be to put it in a bedroom, which is not a great option.

In the loft?

 

[skippy]

In the loft?

Unfortunately not :sad: - it's a single-floor, mid-building apartment in an old victorian terrace. Apartment above and apartment below. 2 bedrooms at the rear - lounge at the front but it's in a conservation area and I'm fairly sure that flue vents aren't allowed out onto the street. (Something to check though, I guess).

Currently flue runs out to the back of the property.

 

[Scott_D]

You could post your location, if anyone is local they might be able to pop round and take a look/quote

 

[skippy]

Are the new keston boilers completely diff boilers to the logic then? Case is identical.

I see Roger Welton (who posted earlier) made a post on this about 18 months ago.

"A point of interest, I hadn't realised Ideal had bought out Keston, and spotted a couple of logics badged up as kestons, but with the twin 'waste pipe' flueing system, which could be useful in some circumstances."
http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/g...-public-forum/33706-ideal-logic-training.html

 

[Roger Welton]

Boiler is same internally as far as I could tell (and implied by training staff)

 

[skippy]

You could post your location, if anyone is local they might be able to pop round and take a look/quote

Location is Hammersmith, West London.

Quite an urgent thing unfortunately. Boiler gave out on Monday and tenants have no heating or hot water.

Had a decent seeming engineer look at it. Pump seems to be gone but seems to be something wrong as well - He swapped out PCB's & Pump with new, but it still wouldn't work. The demand signal was being triggered but the pump wouldnt run. He was stumped and reckons he's worked on Keston's for 5 years. His best guess was that there was 'something wrong with the wiring'.

I'm open to offers (though realise this isn't the 'help wanted' thread). My usual guys are on holidays.

 

[Killy Bing]

Masood or safegas cover hammersmith dont they?

Have you got photos of the property?

just compared the specs, exact same.

will look at the installation manuals now

 

[Killy Bing]

Exact same components and set up as the new kestons....surprising ...

 

[skippy]

Have you got photos of the property?

Well - you did ask! :tongue3:

Attached is a hacked layout showing current flue runs and a photo of the flat when it was gutted showing the boiler location and twin flue.

It also shows the nice hole into the fireplace where the original boiler flue exited into the chimney! I've never uploaded pics before so hopefully they're big enough to view

 

[dancinplumba]

Put it between bedroom and bathroom ?

 

[Killy Bing]

Hmm, that photos abit of a joke....
cant be any fall on that flue!

 

[skippy]

Put it between bedroom and bathroom ?

Thanks for the idea but I guess I was hoping to re-use the existing flue if at all possible

A 'like for like' swap would the easiest and there are tenants in the property. I'd imagine pulling out the roof would modify the flue would be fairly disruptive, not to mention costly. Also moving the boiler would require fairly serious pipework as well as ripping up a section of the floor, I'm guessing?

Cheers.

 

[Killy Bing]

Hmm, minimum disruption would be the new keston, being basically an ideal logic plus is far better.

do you have any more photos of the twin pipe flue before the ceiling was put up?

 

[Ermintrude]

You cannot re use the flue. I would be using the wall by bay window?

 

[skippy]

Hmm, minimum disruption would be the new keston, being basically an ideal logic plus is far better.

do you have any more photos of the twin pipe flue before the ceiling was put up?

As requested. Different angle on the rise from the boiler and then a shot of it exiting the property. It goes over a supporting beam (which was visible in the first pic of the earlier post)

 

[TBServices]

Have you had rewiring done? Has engineer checked for cross polarity?

 

[skippy]

Have you had rewiring done? Has engineer checked for cross polarity?

I'm not sure what you mean by having 'rewiring done'? I (or the tenants) certainly didn't change anything that I'm aware of before the boiler died. The boiler was last serviced about 6 months ago and had worked fairly happily since. It went into 'overheat shutdown' while running which appeared to be due to the pump dying and not moving the heated water out.

As I posted earlier, the engineer tried a new pump (the old one had died) and a new PCB, but as I said earlier the pump wouldn't start up.

Not sure if he checked for cross polarity. I did see him checking something with a meter probe but would have to ask to be sure. Is this something that happens by itself or a mistake that would be made when something that was changed?

 

[Crinkmeister]

Your doors are upside down....

....I'll get me coat

 

[skippy]

Thanks to all that replied. I've bitten the bullet and gone for a like-for-like replacement. From a local engineer - fitting it tomorrow, which I'm pretty impressed with.

In answer to my original question though (in case anyone is Googling this in the future), it seems that the Ideal Logic and the Keston 30/35 are the same boiler, but the Keston does dual flue with a 2 year warranty (vs 5 for the Ideal Logic) while costing about 25% more.

Seems Keston/Ideal have found a profitable niche there in the 'long flue' market and intend to make hay until someone competes. Can't blame 'em.

 

[Killy Bing]

Thanks to all that replied. I've bitten the bullet and gone for a like-for-like replacement. From a local engineer - fitting it tomorrow, which I'm pretty impressed with.

In answer to my original question though (in case anyone is Googling this in the future), it seems that the Ideal Logic and the Keston 30/35 are the same boiler, but the Keston does dual flue with a 2 year warranty (vs 5 for the Ideal Logic) while costing about 25% more.

Seems Keston/Ideal have found a profitable niche there in the 'long flue' market and intend to make hay until someone competes. Can't blame 'em.

The only reason ideal got them.....

 

[TBServices]

Does the keston use standard 1 1/2 solvent waste for flue?

Can get upto 15m from 80mm twin flue on a baxi platinum, which has 10 year warranty

 

[Ermintrude]

No it's 50mm abs

 

[TBServices]

Still have to follow TB regarding flues in voids though correct?

 

[Killy Bing]

Still have to follow TB regarding flues in voids though correct?

Yup!
op already has his installed 🙂

 

[Reg Man]

Think I will go to the bog, to contemplate. To much time on me.

 

[Ermintrude]

Yes but joint every 3m so it's a lot easier ! Think you can get 6m abs ??

 

[skippy]

Just an update in case it's of use to anyone. The engineer is in the process of replacing the existing C36 with a new Keston 35 Combi has discovered something that seems a bit odd.

The position of the flues are reversed between the models, so the exhaust flue outlet on the C36 is in the position where the air intake is located on the Combi 35 and vice versa.

Seems a bit of an odd thing and makes a 'like-for-like' swap a bit more fiddly.

 

[Killy Bing]

Flue system is retrofitted to the ideal model. Cant put the air inlet on the right unfortunately from the looks of it

 

[Unregistered]

Kestons are rubbish and so are ideals

 

[lame plumber]

Kestons are rubbish and so are ideals

ooooooooooooooooooooh get her..............

really long flash to bang time on that answer 🙂

 

[Dotty]

Closed to stop more idiots dragging up old threads.