Knocked

[Dannypipe]

Right, well what happened was I fitted a new heating system and plumbing distribution with circulated hot water to a large country house.

The boiler was initially going to go outside (oil fired) - on the day we started, the customer asked why the boiler couldn't go inside, down in the basement (where the existing boiler was). Bear in mind this had all been discussed at length. Anyway.

I looked at it. There was suitable drainage for the condensate, and it was a good place to distribute the heating pipe work from a low loss header......

Anyway, so I made a last minute change of plan and agreed it (mistake number one).

We run the whole system in copper. Clipping with munsen rings, and doing a damn good job in my opinion.

I quickly generated a adendum to the quote that I was planning to utilise the existing flue liner, and if it wasn't suitable I would not accept the cost of the new one.

Everything went to plan, new unvented cylinder, boiler oil line sorted with fire valve and brought up to current regs. I then had to organise a bespoke flue, as we couldn't get the appropriate joins on the flue to meet the old liner.

I had forseen this and have had to do it once in the past, without issue.

I called the manufacturer and a specialist company that makes bespoke flues. They visit site. I am told I need to replace the flue liner, to cutlery grade, lined stainless steel and the cost for the new flue will be a couple of grand. The client said there was no way he was paying this extra cost as I was the heating engineer and as such I should know this. I accepted this and agreed to absorb the extra cost.

The client said he was happy to liase with the bespoke flue company and assured me he would pay the final amount minus their costs. I said I would prefer to stay on site, and organise things.

By this time I'm getting twitchy as I see him lie to the listed building control people, and knock another tradesmen, picking holes in perfectly acceptable work.

That evening I get an email saying that he was concerned that I was willing to leave the installation with a substandard flue liner that could have posed a risk to his family and he would still pay me, but didn't want me back on site.

I called him, and we argued. He basically said he wanted the whole installation (everything) checked by a third party and for me to absorb the cost and for me to absorb the cost of any remedial work they suggested. (Which is an insult).

I went to the property the next day to discuss it with him. But he wasn't there (he doesn't live there - or didn't). I'm then told I won't be allowed in at the electric gates next time.

So that's where we left it. he told me if I want to speak to him, I need to do so via a solicitor. I have spoken to one, in much more detail than this, and been told I will win my day in court, but not to expect every penny I'm owed.

Its a knocker to your confidence as you question yourself.

I have another boiler to replace in a big house, in a basment. Will need a new bespoke flue and liner. I tried to turn it away today. Twice, but this existing customer really wants me to do it.

Think that about covers it. I'm owed £11,250.

 

[Resolute]

That sounds like a nightmare of a customer. Surely that's pretty much theft?! Hope you recovery it mate.

 

[Dannypipe]

PS - I only put this up for those that asked. Frankly I don't like airing my dirty linen, but it might help someone as Steve said.

If I was a violent man I would go and beat the hell out of this smug, arrogant *******....but I have a family and it's not my style.

I'm a lover not a fighter!

 

[PlumbBobBob]

that's not good danny the guy sounds like a right tool

 

[Dannypipe]

Yeah, total nightmare. I stuck thousands of £'s of materials and labour into the job. The 11K was much needed. But I've bounced back.

I did develop a nervous shake in my hands. I would be drinking a cup of tea and notice that my hands were trembling. Horrible. On the outside I was trying to remain calm for the guys who work for me, and for my own sanity. Inside I have suffered a bit of turmoil. It still is in my head every day, but I have been so busy with work that I haven't had the time to sort this. Which I know sounds stupid, as I'm on here most nights, but I find this relaxing (normally!)

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

Sorry to hear this Danny. I wish you good luck recovering your owed finances. Good luck.

 

[ecowarm]

Sorry to hear this Danny, pass on the debt to someone who is violent. Some one in your area will know who. This is the arms isn't it?

 

[Rickster123]

PS - I only put this up for those that asked. Frankly I don't like airing my dirty linen, but it might help someone as Steve said.

If I was a violent man I would go and beat the hell out of this smug, arrogant *******....but I have a family and it's not my style.

I'm a lover not a fighter!

Friend of mine will do it for a crate of Stella and his bus fare home!

Scum of the earth people like that mate. Hope you get it sorted.

 

[ecowarm]

I know a joiner who used to offer this service, now retired. Last job wacked an alsatian on the head with a claw hammer and killed it only to discover at the wrong house. oops

 

[Dannypipe]

Thanks all. It's quite old news, it cropped up here as someone mentioned a company who are specialising in debt collection (legal!!)

I would love to see some violence happen to this man....but not via me. I'm a big believer in karma, and this guy will get his just desserts.

He was seriously arrogant, which is the worst part. Even before we fell out, I thought the bloke was a ****. He spoke to his much younger, pretty girlfriend like she was dirt....anyway. I will of course let everyone know when it gets sorted and how I faired. If I get most of it back, I'll be a happy chappie and may actually get to take the family away on holiday. Most of the costs I couldn't meet had to go on a credit card (4K of it). So I'd need to pay that off. Luckilly got it on no interest at the mo.

That's life.

 

[ecowarm]

As they say, what goes around, comes around

 

[REDSAW]

git!!.

what does he do for a living?.

park across his gates and wait for him at least you can get some answers?....

 

[Dannypipe]

I should add....there was no way I was going to leave anything dangerous in this guys house. Anyone who knows me well, knows I never throw caution to the wind. I'll always do things by the book, belt and braces.

The amount of times, I've had people say, that will be ok....and had to pull them up on it. So for this guy to say I was going to leave a dangerous flue liner in his house is just crazy. I was the one who advised him it wasn't suitable. That's the joke. I relayed the information I had received from the other experts. Why would I have done that if I planned to pull a fast one?

 

[ecowarm]

Lets have an outing to kent

 

[ecowarm]

I'll let the misses loose on the tw@

 

[Dannypipe]

git!!.

what does he do for a living?.

park across his gates and wait for him at least you can get some answers?....

He invented something. If I said what it was, then most people could find him easy via google, as it's a bit of a weird thing....but it's made him a lot of dosh. Ferrari, aston martin, and a cobra rich. Plus the big flash country pad.

He talks at a fast rate, and his very hostile. It's all just bully boy tatics.

He bullied EVERYONE. Not that he's some big macho man, but fast talking, cocky and self assured. He took no crap and shot people down quickly.

Like I say, I started to get twitchy quite early on....but he was kind of ok with me until the job was basically done. Which was very smart really.

He had been paying up in £5K installments fine until the final payment was due. Very calculated.

 

[Masood]

Really hope you get your money mate. It's my biggest nightmare, a hit like that would leave most people reeling, you're amazingly calm about it!

 

[REDSAW]

ahhhhhh,
theo, the tw4t.lol

 

[Dannypipe]

Really hope you get your money mate. It's my biggest nightmare, a hit like that would leave most people reeling, you're amazingly calm about it!

Its been a year. I've tried to stay calm.

As I said, internally the tension of it has been immense. I would hold a cup of tea to my mouth and feel the cup rattle on my teeth. My hands were trembling, and they still do slightly now. I definetly didn't tremble before!!

I also got bad stomach reflux acid, and had a constant lump in my throat.

Now I'm OK. I can rationalise. I have had to just get on with working as I had another job to start, and customers expecting their job done.

I have had some high praise indeed from customers since this happened, and it makes me feel better because when someone knocks you like that, you do have to stand back and ask if you did anything wrong. What could you have done better. Could it have been prevented? Communication is a big thing to me.

Communicate with clients all the time. Get it down in writing if it involves money.

I hand on heart think I was just used, and I think he thinks he's got away with it.


If you can't deal with these stresses, thats fine. Just work for someone and let them take it on. I personally want to be in control and am happy for the buck to stop with me....but it is hard.

 

[dave1]

Good luck Danny with recovering the money, I know it's been said before in another thread but people like him should be blacklisted so all trades can see he doesn't pay.... Might make people think twice before knocking tradesman.

 

[mfgs]

That is alot of money to be owed. You are definitely going the right route by using a solicitor and doing it all by the book. As tempting as it is to sell the debt on or send some people to try and scare him into paying, those things can easily come back on you. Who is to say he wont send people back after you.

You are doing the right thing and I hope you have your day in court and win.

 

[RPG 80]

notice it's the old dears on just a pension who are the first to pay for a job. Whilst those with money often don't want to part with it😡

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[WaterTight]

i think the rich must have benefited from some very effective PR work because people seem routinely surprised to discover how protective they are over their money and how quickly they'll resort to robbery. stretching the definition of business until it's cheek to cheek with theft has always been the source of most riches. balzac said 'great fortunes are often conceived in sin.' the only part he got wrong was 'often.' should have said 'invariably.'

talking of great PR for the rich, it always leaves me uneasy when people like bill gates are praised for their philanthropy. the billions he gives are of course of monumental use and do immeasurable good. but it's just not sufficient enough distraction from what they keep. if you're worth a 100 billion and you give 80 billion to charity i would consider your remaining wealth to be absolutely unjustifiable by any stretch of the imagination and a crime against humanity. that stands irrespective of the initial good deed.

 

[Veggie Dave]

I know a joiner who used to offer this service, now retired. Last job wacked an alsatian on the head with a claw hammer and killed it only to discover at the wrong house. oops

What a ****! Not only is he too thick to get the right address, he doesn't even have the balls to attack the bloke but attacks an innocent animal instead.

I'd grass scum like that without a second thought, assuming I didn't introduce him to the hammer first.

 

[Veggie Dave]

Right, well what happened was I fitted a new heating system and plumbing distribution with circulated hot water to a large country house.

I wonder when Cowboy Builders, Don't Get Done Get Dom, Watchdog and all the other programs will cover this side of the industry? Oh, I forgot, it's only plumbers who rip people off, the customer is always the innocent party...

 

[Masood]

I hand on heart think I was just used, and I think he thinks he's got away with it.

I *hate* twunts like that. Because recourse to the law can be expensive, and a long, drawn-out process they think they can have people over and there's a good chance they won't be pursued. Best of luck, mate!

 

[armyash]

This is shocking. I can't see what you have done wrong everything was black and white for him.

Imagine how many other people he has screwed over to get to where he is today, doubt you're the first.

Hope he gets his comeuppance soon!. Please update the forum when this happens.

 

[Guest123]

Oh Danny, that's terrible pal. I really feel for you and I hope that muppet gets what's coming to him. Reading between the lines, I think he played you and had no intention of paying your final invoice.

If trying to talk amicably with him fails, then take the scumbag to court and add costs of the court case, BUT FIRST THREATEN TO EXPOSE HIM TO YOUR LOCAL PRESS. People like him value their reputation and having a good reputation helps to keep him in the luxury he's become accustomed to.

Best of luck mate.

 

[WaterTight]

That expose to the press idea is a very good one I reckon. Free advertising too.. haazaa!

 

[CES]

Id expose him to the press like System3 says.. He had a fair chance to pay you. Nothing like Word of mouth to spread some scheidt around, Id start with everyone in the trades that I know. Word soons gets around and he will struggle to find local guys to do work..

 

[Dannypipe]

Thanks everyone for the supportive comments.

I will make sure I update when its all done and dusted....don't imagine it will be anytime soon though!

 

[REDSAW]

What a ****! Not only is he too thick to get the right address, he doesn't even have the balls to attack the bloke but attacks an innocent animal instead.

I'd grass scum like that without a second thought, assuming I didn't introduce him to the hammer first.

anyone did that to my dog will wish they were dead after i finish with them and wont see it coming either, but i see his point.😉

time to name that gizmogeezer or someone else will get caught out, he cant read this forum anyhow!!

 

[dave1]

I know nothing about law, but if you do go to the press local or not I'd get advice from your solicitor first in case it would jeopardise the court case.
Also there's the chance he would want his say in the press as well which could work against you.
Good luck Danny hope this scumbag gets what he deserves, I believe in karma too, just a shame karma doesn't pay the bills lol.

 

[Dannypipe]

I agree Dave, I'm sure he would have no qualms in bending the truth to make me look bad.

I will name him once it's all done and dusted. I just don't want to do anything that could affect me getting the dosh.

 

[WaterTight]

If he's really rich you might go to the Tunbridge Gazette and he'd respond by having Max Clifford arranging a front page Daily Mail leader showing him kissing babies and rescuing orphans from burning buildings.

 

[Veggie Dave]

Re: going to the press.

Unless the person is famous or, for example, the head of a national/international bank, then even the local press won't be in the slightest bit interested. It's not a news story, and that's before you get into the argument that it's one person's word against another's.

If there's a court case, and assuming Dannypipe wins, then it might be possible to interest a local paper but you'd still have to be careful if you're not used to dealing with the media as it could easily be spun so that you become the villain even though he was found guilty.

If you want justice in this country then you need to be able to pay for it.

 

[peteheat]

Hi Danny,

Had a similar smug bacstard try it a few years ago, his brother was a solicitor and had turned the matter around to where they were the plaintiffs I was the defendent, he had the case in court within two months which is a record for our court system.

I had a very good Solicitor and Barrister who were costing me a small fortune (up front) but they earned their money by winning both the claim against me and my counter claim, they won because the bacstard lied on the stand and because I kept very detailed records which they used to nail him.

Very important keep all records especially your meetings with the flue company and when you first contacted them, might be no harm to let them know that you may need them as witnesses in a court case so they make sure to keep their records in order.

Wishing you the very best with this, remember you have the truth on your side and you can't beat a good nights sleep, his day will come.

 

[buckley plumb]

Right, well what happened was I fitted a new heating system and plumbing distribution with circulated hot water to a large country house.

The boiler was initially going to go outside (oil fired) - on the day we started, the customer asked why the boiler couldn't go inside, down in the basement (where the existing boiler was). Bear in mind this had all been discussed at length. Anyway.

I looked at it. There was suitable drainage for the condensate, and it was a good place to distribute the heating pipe work from a low loss header......

Anyway, so I made a last minute change of plan and agreed it (mistake number one).

We run the whole system in copper. Clipping with munsen rings, and doing a damn good job in my opinion.

I quickly generated a adendum to the quote that I was planning to utilise the existing flue liner, and if it wasn't suitable I would not accept the cost of the new one.

Everything went to plan, new unvented cylinder, boiler oil line sorted with fire valve and brought up to current regs. I then had to organise a bespoke flue, as we couldn't get the appropriate joins on the flue to meet the old liner.

I had forseen this and have had to do it once in the past, without issue.

I called the manufacturer and a specialist company that makes bespoke flues. They visit site. I am told I need to replace the flue liner, to cutlery grade, lined stainless steel and the cost for the new flue will be a couple of grand. The client said there was no way he was paying this extra cost as I was the heating engineer and as such I should know this. I accepted this and agreed to absorb the extra cost.

The client said he was happy to liase with the bespoke flue company and assured me he would pay the final amount minus their costs. I said I would prefer to stay on site, and organise things.

By this time I'm getting twitchy as I see him lie to the listed building control people, and knock another tradesmen, picking holes in perfectly acceptable work.

That evening I get an email saying that he was concerned that I was willing to leave the installation with a substandard flue liner that could have posed a risk to his family and he would still pay me, but didn't want me back on site.

I called him, and we argued. He basically said he wanted the whole installation (everything) checked by a third party and for me to absorb the cost and for me to absorb the cost of any remedial work they suggested. (Which is an insult).

I went to the property the next day to discuss it with him. But he wasn't there (he doesn't live there - or didn't). I'm then told I won't be allowed in at the electric gates next time.

So that's where we left it. he told me if I want to speak to him, I need to do so via a solicitor. I have spoken to one, in much more detail than this, and been told I will win my day in court, but not to expect every penny I'm owed.

Its a knocker to your confidence as you question yourself.

I have another boiler to replace in a big house, in a basment. Will need a new bespoke flue and liner. I tried to turn it away today. Twice, but this existing customer really wants me to do it.

Think that about covers it. I'm owed £11,250.

chin up mate i was ripped off once but luck has it it was only for hundreds not thousands it hurts. it taught me to get cash for parts or get customer to go the merchants and pay for the parts before delivery , i know you wont make anything on the parts but its less risk. i have been offered small building sites of 6 houses but refused them as they want 3 months credit on payment after 1st fix not worth the risk. hope all goes weel

ant

 

[buckley plumb]

anyone got a standard contract on pdf they can share - been told if you have no contract these days its hard to claim

 

[AWheating]

Danny, i can relate to the stress and confidence knock someting like this can cause mate. Keep your chin up mate, we all choose to live our lives in different ways. You choose to try your hardest to do a high standard of work with integrity and he chooses to be a imbecile of a customer. His faults and shortcomings are not a reflection on you but him. Good luck with the fight for the money.

People like this eventually cross the wrong person and get what they deserve. :behead:

 

[southcoastboile]

I always find its the rich people that dont want to pay or take ages to pay up. Just dont give up on it whatever you do.
How come it hasn't gone to court yet after all this time?

 

[Phil]

I'm fuming, I've never even met this guy and even I want to see him go down.

I hope one day he goes to prison and then lets see who's the big tough guy, he wouldn't last two minutes.

Maybe we should send ***bria Handyman round with his quick drying cement?

 

[Dannypipe]

Wow! Really amazed by the response to this. Thanks everyone.

 

[mike_s]

trying to imagine how I would feel if this happened to me, I'd be bloody heart broken after the effort I put into my business and pride I take in my work. All the best, good on you for getting on with things after it and I hope justice is done for you.

 

[thomas donovan]

his name isn't simon is it lol, have a customer who sounds like a carbon copy even down to the younger wife who gets treated like shte and the invention/ferrari

 

[Centralheatking]

Why dont we all contribute to a list of customers that we woulnt work for again. If we dont say why or
anything deflamatory its perfecrly ok - my mrs. is a lawyer and assures me its ok to do it that way.

Just name and location would do and then forewarned is forearmed. Talk about
cowboy tradesmen and rated people what about cowboy customers. I start it off with 3 if others want to
add theirs


centralheatking

 

[Dannypipe]

his name isn't simon is it lol, have a customer who sounds like a carbon copy even down to the younger wife who gets treated like shte and the invention/ferrari

No his name isn't Simon!!

I will name him, but I think I want this sorted first. I don't want to jepodise anything.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

good idea even though we're in the arms, you never know who's reading

 

[Masood]

Why dont we all contribute to a list of customers that we woulnt work for again. If we dont say why or
anything deflamatory its perfecrly ok - my mrs. is a lawyer and assures me its ok to do it that way.

Just name and location would do and then forewarned is forearmed.

I think this is a great idea as long as it doesn't land the site owners in any trouble.

 

[julesverne]

Reading this thread ran a chill down my spine. same thing happened to me and others by a recruitment firm in bradford a few years ago. the 2 women directors of ltd company, came over as really trusted worthy their father was a priest. you couldnt have asked for a better reference.
my first mistake being naive first 6 months in business took no money up front and is was a big job 2 washrooms and re skimming the walls of the whole place.
took me over 4/5 weeks to do the job. kept asking for some money as we were going along and always got an excuse but she was really nice and polite so thought she was good for the money.
finished job gave invoice then nothing went round asking and was threatened by her very very big husband not too come round again. now i consider myself to be a handy fella but i'm not stupid i know my limitations and this guy had connections to the bad guys (you just knew by looking at him) this totally shook me. so i went to speak to her priest father problem was he lives florida and never returned my calls. could it get any worse.

i was done for £5000.00 and because of it i ran up further debts upto £22000.00 on credit cards trying to keep going i couldnt keep going as they were ramping up the interest rates. then i broke down in front of my missus and told her everything a year later.

went to court but before i could my day the company was liquidated. i wasnt the only one she scammed a training company out of £10500 and the receptionist out of £4000.00 by convincing her to get a loan to keep them going i really felt for her.

i consider myself lucky because as my missus forgave me other would quite rightly not i should have told her straight but i felt ashamed i had done over so easily. i also consider myself lucky because i never paid a penny back to the credit card companies blaiming them for my predicament just as much by charging over 35% when the bank of england rate was 0.5%, but thats another story.

Anyway the training company had their day in court because as soon they liquidated one company they set up another.

the judge proper went to town on them in manchester county court and were banned from being directors for 5 years but they had no assets no money was ever recovered.

now i'm back on feet after 5 years and now starting to get somewhere business wise. Even now when i think back to that sometimes i shake with anger. I honestly think if i saw her walk past me in an alley she wouldn't make it out to the other side.

danny your not alone in experiencing this form of legalised robbery so my thoughts are totally with you
been there even now as i write my fists are clenching cos i wanna hurt them like they they hurt me.

 

[secret squirrel]

I have been following this post since it was first put up. I am annoyed by it!

The more I read the more angry it makes me. I never ever watch these tv numb nuts and there cheap programing, rogue builders, rogue plumbers etc etc etc.

You all know them, two gays on a bike, fat builder bloke, diy distress blah blah. Just once I'd like to see ONE program on these low life scum bags who rip off honest tradesmen, just once! is it too much to ask.

 

[Veggie Dave]

Jules, that's one hell of a story. 🙁

You all know them, two gays on a bike, fat builder bloke, diy distress blah blah.

You mean the one where one of the blokes has just been done for benefit fraud?

Rogue Traders presenter jailed for benefit fraud | UK news | guardian.co.uk

 

[Dotty]

There are times I feel so much better I'm not out on my own. And it's when I read stories put up by Danny and Jules that I'm doubly glad. I don't know what I'd do in that situation. Probably kick the door in and recover the items I've not been paid for. Technically they belong to me.

And then talk to some nasty chaps who would love to go whisper in the prats shell like.

 

[buckley plumb]

Reading this thread ran a chill down my spine. same thing happened to me and others by a recruitment firm in bradford a few years ago. the 2 women directors of ltd company, came over as really trusted worthy their father was a priest. you couldnt have asked for a better reference.
my first mistake being naive first 6 months in business took no money up front and is was a big job 2 washrooms and re skimming the walls of the whole place.
took me over 4/5 weeks to do the job. kept asking for some money as we were going along and always got an excuse but she was really nice and polite so thought she was good for the money.
finished job gave invoice then nothing went round asking and was threatened by her very very big husband not too come round again. now i consider myself to be a handy fella but i'm not stupid i know my limitations and this guy had connections to the bad guys (you just knew by looking at him) this totally shook me. so i went to speak to her priest father problem was he lives florida and never returned my calls. could it get any worse.

i was done for £5000.00 and because of it i ran up further debts upto £22000.00 on credit cards trying to keep going i couldnt keep going as they were ramping up the interest rates. then i broke down in front of my missus and told her everything a year later.

went to court but before i could my day the company was liquidated. i wasnt the only one she scammed a training company out of £10500 and the receptionist out of £4000.00 by convincing her to get a loan to keep them going i really felt for her.

i consider myself lucky because as my missus forgave me other would quite rightly not i should have told her straight but i felt ashamed i had done over so easily. i also consider myself lucky because i never paid a penny back to the credit card companies blaiming them for my predicament just as much by charging over 35% when the bank of england rate was 0.5%, but thats another story.

Anyway the training company had their day in court because as soon they liquidated one company they set up another.

the judge proper went to town on them in manchester county court and were banned from being directors for 5 years but they had no assets no money was ever recovered.

now i'm back on feet after 5 years and now starting to get somewhere business wise. Even now when i think back to that sometimes i shake with anger. I honestly think if i saw her walk past me in an alley she wouldn't make it out to the other side.

danny your not alone in experiencing this form of legalised robbery so my thoughts are totally with you
been there even now as i write my fists are clenching cos i wanna hurt them like they they hurt me.

sorry to hear it mate glad you are back on track. i am realy glad my first and last rip off was only for £250 parts and 3 days labour and that made me angry so can imagine what you felt.darnt tell the mrs though

ant

 

[Dannypipe]

I know exactly how you feel Jules. It leaves a bitter taste in the mouth, that's always there at the back of your mind. I seriously think it pushed me to my limits. It also makes you very sinicle. Which is a shame, as my nature used to be to see the best in everyone. I'm still like that, but less so once you've been treated so badly by someone and taken for a mug.

 

[julesverne]

thanks guys it's good to know your not alone.