Leaking copper pipe

[Connie194]

Hi - totally new here and really need some advice. I have a pin hole in a 10mm copper wall pipe that supplies a nearby radiator. The hole is about 4cm from the bottom of coving. I have looked at the repair patches but these are for 15mm pipe as are the other fixes available - cannot find it in 10mm. The leak is a dribble with everything on so not pouring out but leaking. I have had 3 plumbers come and look at the leak and the advice has been different on each one and the prices seem too much.

One has said that he will have to access through upstairs floor (bedroom with laminate flooring) cost approx 650-700.

Another has said that he will drain the pipe and solder cost approx 380.

Final one said he can take more wall out either side and replace bit of piping cost approx 420.

None of them can give me an idea of how long it will take so it's difficult to work out the pricing structure.

Should also mention that there is no give in the pipe at all and no gap between wall and pipe so it's difficult to see if the hole has gone all the way through.

Please advise - pictures can be posted.

Thanks Connie

 

[Connie194]

Hi - totally new here and really need some advice. I have a pin hole in a 10mm copper wall pipe that supplies a nearby radiator. The hole is about 4cm from the bottom of coving. I have looked at the repair patches but these are for 15mm pipe as are the other fixes available - cannot find it in 10mm. The leak is a dribble with everything on so not pouring out but leaking. I have had 3 plumbers come and look at the leak and the advice has been different on each one and the prices seem too much.

One has said that he will have to access through upstairs floor (bedroom with laminate flooring) cost approx 650-700.

Another has said that he will drain the pipe and solder cost approx 380.

Final one said he can take more wall out either side and replace bit of piping cost approx 420.

None of them can give me an idea of how long it will take so it's difficult to work out the pricing structure.

Should also mention that there is no give in the pipe at all and no gap between wall and pipe so it's difficult to see if the hole has gone all the way through.

Please advise - pictures can be posted.

Thanks Connie

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Might be easier to remove a bit of the ceiling to gain access to replace the damaged pipe

But realistically it’s 1/2 to 3/4 of a day of work

 

[Connie194]

Might be easier to remove a bit of the ceiling to gain access to replace the damaged pipe

But realistically it’s 1/2 to 3/4 of a day of work

Hi - Thank you for your reply. Would that be go up to the ceiling from downstairs or do it from bedroom above (it has laminate flooring) and 2 - 4 hours work? - I've been quoted 600 - 700 to do that option which seems high. I don't know the pricing on these jobs, I recently had a radiator removed non-emergency and the guy wanted £410 plus VAT. He did not take the radiator away and has not left end caps on the valves to stop any water escaping - he used no materials and was gone within the hour. I live on my own and whilst I'm confident in most jobs this one is not for me - the advice from local plumbers has varied and I wanted to ask here as I'm not entirely confident with the jobs that have been done by others - it's quite a list.

Is this the only viable option and does the price seem high.

I've been advised that the materials on this would cost £40 and might only take two hours but the charge will remain the same - I understand that no-one can give a definite time frame on this but I am shocked with the cost.

Any opinions or advice on this would be appreciated.

Thanks Connie

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Downstairs would recommend as plaster is easier to patch than laminate/ different flooring

Depends are you 100% sure it’s not leaking from above and running down

As for cost 2 hours seem optimistic especially draining down and refilling could take that etc

 

[Connie194]

Downstairs would recommend as plaster is easier to patch than laminate/ different flooring

Depends are you 100% sure it’s not leaking from above and running down

As for cost 2 hours seem optimistic especially draining down and refilling could take that etc

Hi - It's definitely leaking from that hole - I put tissue above the hole to check and it's dry. Tissue below gets slowly damp - annoying because it's the tiniest bit of water that escapes Thanks for the advice I would prefer they go up so reassuring that could be an option.

Can you tell me what "draining down" involves - only one plumber mentioned it - I understand that the pipe needs to be drained but how is this done?

One more question please - if it takes four hours is £600-700 reasonable?

Many thanks Connie

 

[Rtplumb]

Personally I would cut the pipe through the centre of the hole using a multi-tool with a metal blade, remove the clip, smooth off the pipe ends, clean and flux, put on a 10mm slip coupling, solder it up (or use a brass one). Job done, about half an hour and if you’d made me a cuppa I’d charge you £100.

 

[Mary__]

Where are you Connie?

 

[Connie194]

Hi - I'm in Manchester, not far from Manchester United. Thanks

 

[Connie194]

Personally I would cut the pipe through the centre of the hole using a multi-tool with a metal blade, remove the clip, smooth off the pipe ends, clean and flux, put on a 10mm slip coupling, solder it up (or use a brass one). Job done, about half an hour and if you’d made me a cuppa I’d charge you £100.

Hi - that was my initial thought but then three plumbers came and blew my mind - I would throw in a cake to go with the cuppa if anyone in the area could do it as you explained. It took three weeks to get the three guys in - they kept cancelling due to traffic, broken vans and other issues and another just did not turn up after cancelling once he arranged another visit which was a no show. Thank you for taking time to advise its really appreciated. Thanks Connie

 

[Connie194]

Hi - that was my initial thought but then three plumbers came and blew my mind - I would throw in a cake to go with the cuppa if anyone in the area could do it as you explained. It took three weeks to get the three guys in - they kept cancelling due to traffic, broken vans and other issues and another just did not turn up after cancelling once he arranged another visit which was a no show. Thank you for taking time to advise its really appreciated. Thanks Connie

Hi - just wanted to follow up on this post and thank everyone for their thoughts and assistance. I have some follow up questions and wanted more advice.

The copper pipe leak has been fixed today with a compression fitting - as yet I can see no leak, however, when I turned the heating on to test the pipe when hot (I believe they expand) my boiler keeps tripping out. This happened about 13 days ago when I had a leaking radiator removed but after a couple of resets on the boiler everything went back to normal - I also adjusted some of the lock shield valves to balance the system - this improved the radiators massively as some were not getting hot and some were just too hot but after running around the house I think I figured the sequence they start in and made the changes - I was happy as all seemed well - better in fact.

The plumber today used the valve where this radiator was (now empty spot) to drain the system before he fixed the pipe.

I have this evening tried to reset the boiler a few times but it's still not firing up properly - it starts OK but then the pilot goes off and it shuts down - with a “c” in front of the temp it managed to get to.

The hot water is heating up until the boiler shuts down.

It's a Ariston CLAS HER boiler with a a Wilo Yonos Pico 25/1-5-130 pump.

The radiators could not be bled today as they are covered in paint (previous owners) and some bleed valves appear to have been rounded off - when the radiator was removed 13 days ago they were not bled then but the boiler fired up & all seemed good after the resets.

Will not bleeding the radiators likely be the problem here after the leak or is there anything else that I can look at?. For example is there a valve on the drain spot that he used today likely be the problem or anything else that you can advise.

The guy who fixed the leak today is coming back on Wednesday but I wanted other thoughts on this please.

It's not a combi boiler - I have the copper tank in airing cupboard and header tank in loft system.

Finally how do I fix the bleed valves so that they can be bled - I don't want to force them open but I would like to be able to bleed them especially after the 2 "drain downs"

Any thoughts and advice on this? - I can't confirm the leak fixed until its been tested by my heating.

Apologies if this post should be central heating but I think the issue now is connected to the pipe that was leaking - no other changes have been made and heating has been fine since last drain 13 days ago.

Thanks.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Air locked best get the plumber back to finish the job

Need to bleed the rads

 

[Connie194]

Air locked best get the plumber back to finish the job

Need to bleed the rads

Hi - I really need some urgent advice due to new leaks. I originally started with a leaking copper pipe in the wall - now fixed. After the drain the plumber realised that the bleed valves on the radiators would not open due to paint/rust. The next day I scraped all the paint & rust off and during the course of the day I managed to bleed all 6 radiators - they were filled with air. Fired up boiler and all radiators & boiler worked perfectly. Whilst doing this I noticed that 3 radiators had a the tiniest sight of water around the spindle on the lockshield valve - not dripping but you could see it. I told the plumber about this when he called to check on the leak and he said not to worry - two nights ago I receive a call to say that he had a free day and could sort out the radiator valves - (he called me). We agreed a price and he told me that the job would not take long at all. He arrived the next day and I asked him if they could be fixed with plumbers tape at the packing gland nut - I have just been laid off and money is scarce. He said no as they would only leak again, he repeated that it was an easy job to change them and would fix the problem. It wasn't an easy job and the each radiator was drained 2-3 times as the new valves were all leaking. After 4 hours he said that they were at last fixed and that he would have to charge me more because of the time spent doing the job. I agreed as the valves felt OK. They are not fixed and all 3 are leaking in different parts of the stem and running my floors. In addition to this when I turned the boiler on to test it got its first error code E11 which means it's dry running. I have left it off. I contacted the plumber within hours of leaving and was told don't worry I will sort it tomorrow and in the meantime turn off the radiators. He has not turned up and I think he has now blocked my number.

The radiator valves on both sides have been turned clockwise to the off position but they are still leaking? - please advise.

The plumber put caps on the valves that I cannot get off so not sure what the spindle inside is doing? - please advise.

My boiler is tank in the loft and the error code needs addressing - the advice is to check the system pressure. Its a Wilo Yonos Pico 25/1-5-130 pump - please advise.

I would really appreciate any advice on the above - I am so unhappy and near to tears that money has been paid and the leaks are far worse on the radiators and now ruining new flooring. The boiler was fine before his second visit and after I had bled the radiators and now I have no hot water, leaking radiators and damaged laminate. The guy I used was from MyBuilder and after fixing the wall leak I gave him another job because that leak is fixed.

Thanks Connie

 

[Connie194]

I have attached images. Please note image one is what they looked like before he changed them. Image 3 shows that the nut is slanted??

Thank you to any thoughts and advice on this - I am so upset with where I now am.

Thanks

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Your original valves if the same as the first picture would of just required a nip of the glad nut quiet normal for them to weep if not used / operated for a while

As for leaking all I can suggest is to drain down to limit damage and get a plumber out as the person whose done that isn’t one

 

[Connie194]

Your original valves if the same as the first picture would of just required a nip of the glad nut quiet normal for them to weep if not used / operated for a while

As for leaking all I can suggest is to drain down to limit damage and get a plumber out as the person whose done that isn’t one

I agree about the original valves and I did tell him this - I've stopped leaking taps at the gland nuts so know a little bit but he said not a good idea. Just to clarify about limiting the damage - is it likely water in the radiator causing the leak (when off) or is water from the system? - when you say drain down do you mean the radiators that are leaking - drain them? - thank you for your quick reply, so appreciated.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I agree about the original valves and I did tell him this - I've stopped leaking taps at the gland nuts so know a little bit but he said not a good idea. Just to clarify about limiting the damage - is it likely water in the radiator causing the leak (when off) or is water from the system? - when you say drain down do you mean the radiators that are leaking - drain them? - thank you for your quick reply, so appreciated.

I’m guessing the couplings are leaking so the system need to be drained to stop the damage / leaking

 

[Connie194]

Your original valves if the same as the first picture would of just required a nip of the glad nut quiet normal for them to weep if not used / operated for a while

As for leaking all I can suggest is to drain down to limit damage and get a plumber out as the person whose done that isn’t one

I suggested this & the tape method if needed but both were declined.

 

[Connie194]

I suggested this & the tape method if needed but both were declined.

Hi - I have decided to try and fix one of these leaks myself but wanted some thoughts & advice.

My plan is to tackle the valve which does not have the brass nuts on the lower pipe. Thinking back I did not see the plumber clean any fittings or use any tape - I was told not needed because they were new valve's - I disagreed with this but felt as he was the “professional” I should go with that - regret not following my instincts now. I mention this because I think this is one I can do with guidance and if he didn't use it then I should try and put it on.

Steps I intend to take.

Turn off water at mains.

I currently have a drain fitting on a spot where a radiator was removed a few weeks ago (downstairs) - attached image - I'm on my own with no ladders so don't want to go in the loft if I don't have to so would prefer to use this - please advise.

I then attach hosepipe to the tail drain on the radiator valve with a clip and slowly turn the chrome valve above it with a screwdriver and drain the water? - please advise.

Once drained I close the chrome valve or do I leave everything in place including hosepipe until the repair is ready to test? - please advise.

On the radiator that is leaking both valves are turned clockwise off (since leaks) - I leave them shut and with towels and tubs at the ready I hold the body of the valve with wrench or adjustable spanner and slowly loosen the chrome nut between that lies horizontal and drain the water from there? - please advise.

I then loosen the chrome nut from beneath the valve and remove body? - please advise.

I then put the tape around the thread of the valve - anticlockwise? and how many wraps? - please advise.

Are there any olives that I'm going to encounter or is just the body with the thread at the bottom that I have to wrap with tape and concentrate on - please advise.

Should I clean thread/fittings or will they be OK because they are new?

Where in this process do I bleed the radiators of air - before, after or both and will this include the the other two radiators with the leaking valves.

Once all this is done I turn water back on and test for leaks? - if still leaking repeat the process?

If there are any steps that I have missed please advise.

I am sorry for the long post, I can usually repair most things but radiators make me so nervous.

In DIY terms is this a difficult job or is it one that people can do themselves using the steps above?

Given that I have paid for a lot of plumbing work these past few weeks - some of which now has to be rectified and funds are not there due to redundancy as well. I want to attempt at least one radiator.

Any thoughts on this much appreciated or any link to a step by step guide that you can send me.

Finally if you are reading this and think - “doesn't know what their doing” be honest and tell me, in a gentle way please or if you think “on the right track” please fill in any gaps/steps I've missed or overlooked.

Thank you for anymore input you can give.

Thanks

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Tbh I wouldn’t keep the compression couplings need removing and the use of soldered fittings

 

[ShaunCorbs]

But In short

Turn water mains off

Hose pipe on drain off

Open drain wait 2-5 mins then vent the upstairs rads and leave open

The downstairs rads will have to be individually drained either via drain offs like picture or via tubs / containers etc

System drained within reason some water will be still in the system in the pipework lower than drain offs etc not much tho

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I suspect the reason why the fittings are leaking is the pipe is damaged / has diverts / indents etc 10mm isn’t easy to work with

 

[Connie194]

I suspect the reason why the fittings are leaking is the pipe is damaged / has diverts / indents etc 10mm isn’t easy to work with

I agree but he did not use any new pipe - I clearly remember him tapping one of the valves onto a paint covered piece and offered to go out and get new. I should of asked him to leave when he asked me where the off license was at 2 in the afternoon whilst in the middle of a job. This guy does have a license - I checked. Thank you for the reply.

 

[Connie194]

But In short

Turn water mains off

Hose pipe on drain off

Open drain wait 2-5 mins then vent the upstairs rads and leave open

The downstairs rads will have to be individually drained either via drain offs like picture or via tubs / containers etc

System drained within reason some water will be still in the system in the pipework lower than drain offs etc not much tho

The downstairs rads will have to be individually drained either via drain offs like picture or via tubs / containers etc

I only have two downstairs at the moment and their both one of the leaky trio so not a wasted job there.

I take your point on soldering but could this be avoided using tape & other or is solder the only way to go - not mastered soldering and worried that if still leaks I'm in a corner?

I value your opinion and the more you tell me, the more I realise that none of the plumbers followed the correct steps - which is linked to the not working boiler. Everything was fine 3 nights ago and that was only after I managed to bleed the radiators when they could not and get the boiler working. The heating & boiler were working together perfectly - I even managed to balance the radiators which was a first for this house.

"If ain't broke don't fix it" is one lesson I have definitely took on board.

Thanks again for your input

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You could try ptfe but normally there’s a reason why it’s leaking

Won’t harm stripping the joint once drained to inspect etc