Leaking Rayburn

[Darwinian]

I have an Oil-fired 1997 Rayburn 460k Mk2 with Nu-way burners which was in my property when I moved in in 2001. I don't know about the history of it's first 4 years but I do know that it's given me lots of grief over the last few years. However, it has worked beautifully for the last 6 months (after new ceramic liners, cooker thermostat and ignitors) and when it's going well it's great to live with.
Unfortunately, however, with impeccable timing (mid-December) it has developed the most serious problem it's had - a leaking boiler.
I suspect that it's terminal and I shall end up getting a new, modern one installed and commissioned properly. However, before committing to this, can anyone tell me if it's realistic or feasible to get a new boiler/heat exchanger fitted to try and save it?
If not, and it's a write off, I would if it's possible like to nurse it through the next few weeks without being too concerned by further damage. With that in mind, can I
- run the cooker side only with the boiler side drained dry?
- try radweld/leakstop etc to try and stop the leak temporarily?

 

[dontknowitall]

Grrr ... lost my internet connection as I pressed send ....

Without seeing your cooker I'm posting blind so no guarantees on safety, blah, blah.

It seems as if the leak is coming out from a nut or tapping or connection rather than a hole in the boiler casing itself. Is this right? If so, tightening a little just might work but if you put a compound on it like radweld then you'll make the job much more difficult and time consuming (and therefore expensive if you call someone in.)

As long as the boiler is venting correctly (up to the loft/attic) then you can use the cooker without problems. (If you've not touched the pipework then don't worry - just turn the cooker on.) The cooker is a separate part of the Rayburn and heats the boiler but only to a certain extent.

I don't feel your machine has to go to Rayburn Heaven - 1997 ... it's only a baby!! I'm not saying you shouldn't change it as that's your choice but it is quite young and you should expect to keep it going for another 10 years spending around £150 a year (depending on where you live). The cooker blast tube will require changing about every 5 years (around £200 or so) and a service of around £100 a year with a few other parts (e.g. possibly some baffles).

They're fantastic contraptions and unlike this modern heating rubbish they're built to last. I'm biased as I've got one!

 

[Darwinian]

Thanks for reply - that's helpful. I can cook the turkey after all. I was under the impression that the leak was from a hole in the boiler jacket/heat exchanger itself - or at least that was what I was told over the phone by a professional who'se familiar with it but who can't actually come out until the new year. The leak was definitely inside the thing and soaked some of the insulation and foam panels. If there is a chance it's something remediable I'd have a go myself, although I know my limits - I can go so far as taking the baffles out to have a look - is there a chance I'd find the cause that way? The flow and return pipe connections look sound, at least externally.

 

[Reg Man]

Get it sorted ASAP. Wet insulation panels, water running and heat is not good. Have you spoken to AGA/Rayburn in Telford. They will be able to give you some good advice.

 

[dontknowitall]

That leak doesn't sound good unfortunately. If it is in the casing I'd be looking asking Santa for a new one. I don't specialise in these things at all though. I can service them and know how they work but need would need more specialised help in your case.

By all means take the baffles out ('orrible and time consuming task!) but I'm not sure you'll see anything you can fix.

Best of luck though.

 

[Reg Man]

That leak doesn't sound good unfortunately. If it is in the casing I'd be looking asking Santa for a new one. I don't specialise in these things at all though. I can service them and know how they work but need would need more specialised help in your case.

By all means take the baffles out ('orrible and time consuming task!) but I'm not sure you'll see anything you can fix.

Best of luck though.

Don't take the baffles out and leave it running. The appliance is designed to do to work the way it was built. Water leaks in the appliance will cause nothing but trouble, could end up in a safety issue.

 

[dontknowitall]

Don't take the baffles out and leave it running. The appliance is designed to do to work the way it was built. Water leaks in the appliance will cause nothing but trouble, could end up in a safety issue.

LOL - I wasn't meaning that at all, but it's so easy to be mis-interpreted on message boards like this. Thank you for clarifying that one!!!

 

[Reg Man]

LOL - I wasn't meaning that at all, but it's so easy to be mis-interpreted on message boards like this. Thank you for clarifying that one!!!

Didn't mean to undermine you, it was just how it could be interpreted. Moral of this thread (Leaking Rayburn) is, no one likes spending out on something that you can get away with, but in this case there could be fundatmental risk for safety, so you can't put a price on that. Owning a range cooker is like owning an expensive car. You know that when something goes wrong you need to be prepared to put your hand in your pocket.

 

[Darwinian]

Thanks for posts. Don't worry I had no intention of running it without baffles. I'm very safety-aware and know the limits of my competance. I'm resigned to no central heating for a while (fills me with joy given the weather and the season) and a big bill. Boilerside is drained and properly vented and I've made sure it can't switched on accidentaly, and the inside of the unit has dried out. The cookerside seems to be running fine which is some consolation. Would still like to know whether it's possible (and if it is possible, is it sensible in the long run) to repair or replace the boiler jacket, or should I bite the bullet and go for a new unit. Perhaps only a visit from a Rayburn engineer will tell.

 

[dontknowitall]

I think a visit is best and I'd be prepared for a new one. I think if the jacket is repaired it means dismantling the whole cooker, replacing the jacket and rebuilding it again. I'd estimate this would take two men about 2-3 days. The risk is the sides or back or front (or all four) do not sit square when re-assembled and you end up with further problems (fume or heat leakage, etc).

You will be able to sell it though. It's nearly 1/2 ton so the scrap price is good but a part exchange might be your best option.

 

[Reg Man]

An empty water jacket with the heat turned on; heat even from just the oven is not safe. Please speak with AGA/Rayburn, they will give good advice to you.

 

[Reg Man]

You do not need to scrap it. This is a top of the range (Not a Pun) unit. This range can last for many years to come, with proper maintenance. A substantail strip down will be required, but carried out properly, will reward you with many more years of functional operation.

 

[Darwinian]

Is it unsafe in that it could cause more damage to the unit, or unsafe to life and limb? I will speak with AGA/Rayburn though before I use it again, although I have consulted a Rayburn Guild engineer on the phone today who said it is ok to use the cooker with the boiler dry in that the worst that could happen is that it would cause more damage to the unit that was almost certainly a write off anyway. This unit has had problems with overheating in the past and this engineer has worked on it this year, and told me that there was evidence of warping (between the two burner chambers I think) due to overheating when he was replacing the ceramic liners.

 

[Rosemary]

We have the same problem with our Rayburn (480K Mk 2 - 13 years old according to AGA-Rayburn). They say the problem is terminal (beyond economic repair, I think was the term they used). Engineers that we spoke to on the phone said to run the Rayburn if it was working OK so we did and whilst it was operating, the leak stopped. A local oil heating engineer indicated that if it was only leaking when cold then Fermox leak sealer may keep the unit going for a few months. He provided us with 500ml of Fermox and we woke up on Christmas morning to the best Christmas present ever, a dry kitchen floor! Touch wood it has been OK since but we are going to replace the Rayburn with a new oil boiler when we can get people out to give us quotes. I do hope that the Rayburn keeps going for the rest of the winter as I cannot stand the cold!

 

[oldplumber]

there's a wonderful company in telford that is aga approved Aga Rayburn Cooker & Cleaning Kits, Traditional & Contemporary Aga Rayburn Cookers and they renovated my 1954 aga a few years back that was in a worse state than their before example they show, it now has pride of place in the kitchen, and 3 dogs and 2 cats prevent us from cooking on it. If your rayburn is deemed knackered get it in a trailer and up/down to them for a refurb at 1/2 the price of a new one, but make sure it needs a refurb in the first place, could be just a leaking joint, I had to tighten one up recently on a coal fired rayburn locally that came out of the ark, but it was still chucking out the heat.

NB a 97 rayburn on the flea bay will fetch good money still, I cannt believe that there is anything terminal on one that young!

 

[Bartdude]

Unfortunately the 480k mk 2 is a bit of a lost cause. There are inherent design flaws in it and if the boiler is leaking then it can't be repaired. I saw a lot of mk 1 and 2 480k cookers scrapped because of this. The only way they could be repaired was to send them back to the factory and even then it was very difficult. The problem was the way the boiler section was designed.The baffles were very difficult to remove also. Add to this the cooker combustion chamber being too small,resulting in heat damage to blast tubes,electrodes,photo cells and ceramic insulation failure,all of which made maintenance very expensive. Rayburn totally redesigned the innards of the cooker with the MX(Mk3) and it was a great improvement. I don't think you can get a Mk 2 boiler section now and it's really not worth doing anyway.

I know it seems wrong to say that a Rayburn is finished after 10-15 years,but believe me,you've done well to get that much out of it!

 

[Rosemary]

Thanks for the comments, guys - we have already decided that it has to go and Bartdude has just confirmed this! This Rayburn was in the bungalow when we moved in in 2007 and we have since established that it was bought by the previous owners as a refurbished model. I am completely shocked that something so expensive can have such a short life (the old Trianco in our last house was 17 years old and still going strong when we moved out). So it is a new oil boiler for us even though the two cats that sit on the Rayburn (never used for cooking because of this) will be really cross! Also, even though the kitchen is designed around the Rayburn, I don't care - the water leaking all over the floor means that the laminate flooring (which I hate, too) has to be replaced so a bit of a redesign is nothing compared to redoing the whole floor. Goodbye Rayburn - here's to a quiet, dry future!

 

[Bartdude]

However if you had a cooking only Rayburn or Aga,that would last for 50+ years,or until the oil runs out🙂

 

[Darwinian]

Just picked up this thread about my leaking Rayburn again - thanks for replies. The Rayburn helpline and a couple of Rayburn Guild engineers gave somewhat contradictory advice as to whether I could use the cooker side alone with a drained and vented non-functioning boiler - basically it was 'probably' safe, except for the tiny risk of residual water in the system causing steam to develop and expand and cause an explosion! What actually happened when I tried to use it was that the overheat theromstat cut in at a low temperature making it unusable. So it was a combi microwave for the Xmas dinner.
It may be noteworthy but I only found the leak by accident - there was no external evidence of a leak and the Rayburn was working well, when the cooker side developed a slight misfire - stopping and reigniting every couple of minutes or so. I took the front and plinth panels off to clean the PEC and hoover up the dog hair from the air intake and found a puddle on the floor and that the inside was swimming.
I may be as cracked as my boiler but I've decided to replace the Rayburn- sized and shaped hole in my kitchen with a new one. I've heard before that this Mk2 model was dodgy and basically I think mine was ruined by a poor installation 13 years ago (e.g. the electrical wiring to it was all wrong when I inherited it) and poor maintenance in it's early years exacerbating it's flaws and resulting in damage due to overheating, and I've been playing catch-up with it ever since.

 

[oldplumber]

get a aga or stanley if you want hot water/heating better than rayburns, have a look at aga telford for 2nd hand ones

 

[Bartdude]

get a aga or stanley if you want hot water/heating better than rayburns, have a look at aga telford for 2nd hand ones

An Aga will only supply hot water,there's no heating option.

The main difference between Aga and Rayburn is that Aga is a true 100% heat storage cooker,always at a constant temperature. Rayburns are designed to idle at a lower temperature and be turned up when you require higher cooking heat.

When the central heating market started to take off it was Rayburn that first started producing models,starting with solid fuel of course and a whole host of other weird and wonderful models. The 480k with twin pressure jet burners started with the mk1 and 2,poorly designed appliances and the cause of grief for a lot of customers including the OP. The newer models are much improved and are now at the mk4 stage,and they're now offer good reliable performance. In my opinion the Rayburns are superior to Stanleys,much better construction and nobody does enamelling like Aga/Rayburn. Stanley is now owned by Aga too.

I've always felt that if possible a separate central heating boiler is the way to go and a range cooker for cooking only or hot water will cause less problems in the long run,but every house is different and for some situations the heating models provide an ideal solution. The key is getting the new Rayburn installed correctly,particularly in the case of the heating system,follow manufacturers instructions and you'll be fine.

I wouldn't recommend a second hand central heating model,the decent ones aren't old enough to be available,and a manufacturers warranty will be good for your peace of mind considering the problems you've had. When it comes to the other versions however there are lots of good reconditioned cookers around,the company old plumber linked too are good,but they're part of Aga and you pay for that. I'm sure you're Aga is great old plumb,it's a shame I wasn't on the forum when you refurbished it,might have been able to save you a few quid🙂🙂

 

[oldplumber]

from my knowledge of twyford at the time they were independant of aga but approved by them, their work was brilliant and I was happy to pay them for the work. Of note when I was up there they had ranges in store removed from houses that have never been used, and the ladies of the house just didnt like the colours!!!!!!! even worse was the woman in pink, with a pink merc sl who turned up to check out her newly enamelled pink aga!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (guess what colour clothes she wore) However twyford may well have been aquired by aga being they were so good, it was 6 years back Iwas up there.

 

[Vintage Ranges]

I have an Oil-fired 1997 Rayburn 460k Mk2 with Nu-way burners which was in my property when I moved in in 2001. I don't know about the history of it's first 4 years but I do know that it's given me lots of grief over the last few years. However, it has worked beautifully for the last 6 months (after new ceramic liners, cooker thermostat and ignitors) and when it's going well it's great to live with.
Unfortunately, however, with impeccable timing (mid-December) it has developed the most serious problem it's had - a leaking boiler.
I suspect that it's terminal and I shall end up getting a new, modern one installed and commissioned properly. However, before committing to this, can anyone tell me if it's realistic or feasible to get a new boiler/heat exchanger fitted to try and save it?
If not, and it's a write off, I would if it's possible like to nurse it through the next few weeks without being too concerned by further damage. With that in mind, can I
- run the cooker side only with the boiler side drained dry?
- try radweld/leakstop etc to try and stop the leak temporarily?

Hi Darwinian
Sorry to hear about your Rayburn problem.
If you are seriously looking at replacing it, please visit my website www.vintageranges.com . These are my own design products. I sell and build to order, quite literally the 'Top of the Range'. If interested, please email me on [email protected]
Thanks
John