Mains Cold Water Supply - Think I had a cowboy plumber at my house !

[IATM]

Hi Guys,

I have had various plumbing issues in my house after having a few plumbers in and I cant seem to find one who knows what they are doing or how to fix issues so I have decided to investigate them one by one and fix them myself or tell the plumber what to do.

Roughly a year agoI had a leak in the mains cold water supply tap/stopcock under the kitchen sink - this got worse and worse and eventually we have a plumber in to "fix" this - he spent 2 hours apparently fixing it but said we could not open it full as that was not a good idea/good practice ....

This "not a good idea" he fobbed my parents off with I realize now was proboably because if you turn the stopcock more than half approx it starts to leak which leads me to think he diddnt fix it properly as he should have done and took 300 quid off me for the pleasure of doing.

Can you correct me if I am wrong but I should have the ability to turn it full to benefit from the full mains pressure ( I think this is having an affect in the upstairs gravity fed system I have in the two bathrooms)

any links to quality stopcocks etc I can use to tell the plumber to fix and any other notes when fixing this issue.

I would be really grateful for any help as I just can't seem to find anyone who can say yes thats the issue this is what it will be to fix it 🙁

happy to provide pics if need be

Thanks

 

[chris watkins]

Pics please, what area are you ?

 

[hunterseye]

I believe its good practise when its open fully just to turn it back slightly to help prevent seizing up when not being used. But should be able to turn more than half way.

 

[Cumbria Handyma]

You should be able to turn your stopcock fully open and should not have any leaks. It is good practice though to open it fully and then close it half to one turn.

£300 for a couple of hours work is a bit steep.

 

[SimonG]

Sounds like the gland nut just needed repacking, but without having seen it cannot say. As already said, open fully and turn back slightly. Shouldn't affect gravity supplies unless the tanks can't refill quick enough. You still have mains pressure, just restricted flow.

 

[Plum Bob 66]

Hi Guys,

I have had various plumbing issues in my house after having a few plumbers in and I cant seem to find one who knows what they are doing or how to fix issues so I have decided to investigate them one by one and fix them myself or tell the plumber what to do.

Roughly a year agoI had a leak in the mains cold water supply tap/stopcock under the kitchen sink - this got worse and worse and eventually we have a plumber in to "fix" this - he spent 2 hours apparently fixing it but said we could not open it full as that was not a good idea/good practice ....

This "not a good idea" he fobbed my parents off with I realize now was proboably because if you turn the stopcock more than half approx it starts to leak which leads me to think he diddnt fix it properly as he should have done and took 300 quid off me for the pleasure of doing.

Can you correct me if I am wrong but I should have the ability to turn it full to benefit from the full mains pressure ( I think this is having an affect in the upstairs gravity fed system I have in the two bathrooms)

any links to quality stopcocks etc I can use to tell the plumber to fix and any other notes when fixing this issue.

I would be really grateful for any help as I just can't seem to find anyone who can say yes thats the issue this is what it will be to fix it 🙁

happy to provide pics if need be

Thanks

Gee, £300 this guys not a plumber hes a conman, get in touch with trading standards. What was his name Dick Turpin ??

I change one today charges £45, going by your post Ive obviously got it badly wrong ??

Bob

 

[glenno1]

£300,where do you live?im coming to work in your area

 

[IATM]

Hi Guys,

Really grateful for all the quick replies. Yes I think he came in and took advantage of my mum n dad and thought (rub the hands together). From the last time I touched the mains supply I turned it open enough so that it stopped making the noise of the water pushing through (my mum stopped me from turning it again and again as she said the plumber said not to do this as it would leak) - my first thought was should he not have bloody fixed that then!

putting that aside what is this glandnut and how to go about repacking it. ( I will get a picture up this evenining of what he fitted on - looks like a piece lego piece but I don't pretend to know what it is or if its any good)

Simon G I know you mentioned this shouldnt affect the system however I am inclined to think so because a bathroom fitter came round recently and I said to him about the low pressure in both bathrooms upstairs and I suggested it happened when the taps were changed etc but after having a quick look he said he was inclined to think there was an issue in the system somewhere. His reasons for this was when the toilet was flushed it only trickled back in to fill up in both bathrooms and the taps are shockingly bad. I tried to do a rough flow rate last night and got 7 litres per minute (that was from the bath taps - is that any good?)

 

[IATM]

my dad then called a different plumber about 6 months ago to fit the piping in to have a shower fitted - the piping to the floorboard was 22m so the plumber decides fit 15mm to the wall to fit a shower - I looked at this and knew this was wrong and asked my dad to call him back and find out why he done this as it must restrict the flow. (long story short the guy never bothered to get back to us)

at the moment the reason why I think I have a problem is because before all the plumbers came in, I had geat pressure everwhere and no issues at all, just wanted newer bathrooms 🙁

PS. I am in Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, Scotland - Beleive me if he tried to charge me that when I was there id tell him to sling his hook - I tend to always ask for quotes etc and have prices set etc when possible.

 

[SimonG]

Hi Guys,

Really grateful for all the quick replies. Yes I think he came in and took advantage of my mum n dad and thought (rub the hands together). From the last time I touched the mains supply I turned it open enough so that it stopped making the noise of the water pushing through (my mum stopped me from turning it again and again as she said the plumber said not to do this as it would leak) - my first thought was should he not have bloody fixed that then!

putting that aside what is this glandnut and how to go about repacking it. ( I will get a picture up this evenining of what he fitted on - looks like a piece lego piece but I don't pretend to know what it is or if its any good)

Simon G I know you mentioned this shouldnt affect the system however I am inclined to think so because a bathroom fitter came round recently and I said to him about the low pressure in both bathrooms upstairs and I suggested it happened when the taps were changed etc but after having a quick look he said he was inclined to think there was an issue in the system somewhere. His reasons for this was when the toilet was flushed it only trickled back in to fill up in both bathrooms and the taps are shockingly bad. I tried to do a rough flow rate last night and got 7 litres per minute (that was from the bath taps - is that any good?)

Sounds as though there is a lot going on. It all depends on the type of system that is operating your bathrooms. Are the toilets not mains fed? You say the pressure became worse after taps where changed, to me that sounds like gravity supplies and new taps that require high pressure.

You need to get somebody in that knows what they are doing, bit too far for me 🙂 , hopefully there will be somebody on here who is close enough to assist.

Could try posting a requirement in the 'I need a plumber' section.

 

[IATM]

HI simon G - I suspect it is gravity fed but im not sure tbh - from what i can see i have a hot water tank in airing cupboard, cold water tank in loft etc- its a detached 4 bed house. just a typical set up from what i gather from the information on the net. i suspect the taps arent great and it would be better to get taps that accomodate 0.2 bar min pressure etc but still its really poor and it diddnt used to be. please find the pics of what was done under the kitchen sink

 

[jtsplumbing]

Looking at the pics, you have 22mm stopcock ! can't see what if anything has been done to it, you may find the problem with your water flow is the check valve just above it, either partly block'd with dirt or not opening fully, would be a simple job to replace both, Around £20/£30 for parts £45 labour ! £300.00 for what look' s like nothing has been done ! except you is taking the mick Ask for your money back.

 

[SimonG]

With jts on this, I was expecting something out of the ark 🙂 , but there appears nothing too taxing there.

 

[IATM]

Looking at the pics, you have 22mm stopcock ! can't see what if anything has been done to it, you may find the problem with your water flow is the check valve just above it, either partly block'd with dirt or not opening fully, would be a simple job to replace both, Around £20/£30 for parts £45 labour ! £300.00 for what look' s like nothing has been done ! except you is taking the P*** Ask for your money back.

Lol hi jst plumbing. just a quick question. what the hell is the blue thing? Just asked my mum again exactly what the guy done. he changed the stopcock and washer apparently and it stilled leaked so gave some bs about not utnring it on fully so it doesnt leak. i suspect he diddnt do it properly as i should be able to turn it full without a dam leak.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Lol hi jst plumbing. just a quick question. what the hell is the blue thing? Just asked my mum again exactly what the guy done. he changed the stopcock and washer apparently and it stilled leaked so gave some bs about not utnring it on fully so it doesnt leak. i suspect he diddnt do it properly as i should be able to turn it full without a dam leak.

The blue thing is your water main ! Looking at the pics the stopcock do's-not look like it has been taken apart even the marks around the packing gland dont seam to have been touched, I think you have been conn'd ! i mean £300.00 for a washer.!!

 

[jtsplumbing]

Sorry just read your reply again , if thats a new stopcock I will give up Plumbing ! Unless you can buy them with that used look so that it blends in with the older plumbing !!

 

[IATM]

*deeeppp sigh** - This was almost 2-3 months back but even then I suspected the guy took the biscuit.

Right I can have that looked at ASAP properly under my watch - The pressure upstairs is the real mystery tbh, both hot and cold pressure is very low, from basin taps I get 3L per min and from tub taps i get 7L per min

I remember few months ago I turned everything off as a kitchen tap were faulty so was rpelacing that, when I turned everything back on the hot water was quite murky and certainly had a brown tint to it - wondering if the system is dirty and it just needs a good clean - if thats even possible.

Just wanted to say thanks for everyone esp Simon G and JSTplumbing for helping out.

 

[IATM]

Sorry just read your reply again , if thats a new stopcock I will give up Plumbing ! Unless you can buy them with that used look so that it blends in with the older plumbing !!

LOLLL You know what I diddnt even click on to that !!!! TBH at the time my dad was in hospital very unwell and I used to work and then go stay with him at the hospital and only come home every now and then to make sure brother, sister n mum were ok - mum mentioned this to me in passing and with everything else going on she mentioned there was a leak and it was "fixed" - i diddnt bother after that.

 

[Dotty]

Lol hi jst plumbing. just a quick question. what the hell is the blue thing? Just asked my mum again exactly what the guy done. he changed the stopcock and washer apparently and it stilled leaked so gave some bs about not utnring it on fully so it doesnt leak. i suspect he diddnt do it properly as i should be able to turn it full without a dam leak.

The blue thing is an mdpe (blue plastic pipe) to copper straight. And you have been royally raped. In front of a paying audience!

If he couldn't repair the stop valve he should've replaced it.

 

[Dotty]

Doh! I just read he claimed he had!

 

[mountainman]

There has got to be one of the members of this forum in your neck of the woods who can sort you out.
It's hard to believe how badly this alleged plumber has behaved.

 

[IATM]

yeah its not great - Going to call this bathroom fitter I am talking to at the moment to see if he has enough experience in this stuff and if not can he recommend someone - at the same time I think I will post up a quick thread in the plumber required section steven G mentioned with my fingers crossed - hopefully they can help with the pressure upstairs. - I thought a quick resolution might have been to fit a pressure pump on.......... not read up much on them though to make a decision

 

[Millsy 82]

Do you have a stop tap out in the road if so just get somebody to swap the internal stopcock and have a look at the check valve.

The pressure to the bathrooms could possibly be air in the system still from where they drained to fit taps.

 

[mountainman]

The solution to your problem is certainly not rocket science.
One advantage of using a forum member is that you have a superb guarantee inasmuch as you can comment on the quality of the service you receive.

 

[AWheating]

just to clarify what hot water system do you have? cylinder and tanks in the loft?

its sounds like the plumber did not change the stop tap, you may have some dirt blocking some taps and the bathroom fitter fitted high pressure mixer taps on a low pressure system. Im sorry you have had such poor service from so called tradesmen.

what type of shower is fitted? most shower dont require a 22mm supply to them.

 

[IATM]

just to clarify what hot water system do you have? cylinder and tanks in the loft?

its sounds like the plumber did not change the stop tap, you may have some dirt blocking some taps and the bathroom fitter fitted high pressure mixer taps on a low pressure system. Im sorry you have had such poor service from so called tradesmen.

what type of shower is fitted? most shower dont require a 22mm supply to them.

Hi AWHeating,

In all honesty I could not tell you 100% exactly what hot water system I have I am happy to go check if you can point me in the right direction.

I agree with you it appears the mains stopcock was not changed so that is my first step in ensuring my water system in the house is all back up to top notch.

Thanks for the kind words, it has been a pain - its not even a money issue as I dont mind saving up etc or spending the money if it means the issue is fixed but no one seemed to be able to/want to do it.

We intended to fit a electric shower in my main bathroom so we asked a plumber to come in and put the fitting in place so that an electric shower can be fitted - after we had the work done our electrician decided to advise us that its not recommended to have two electric showers in one house - thats a whole different story so thats why I am thinking if I can get the pressure issue resolved I have have a half decent low pressure mixer installed - I hope

In regards to the set up - I have a hot water tank in the airing cupboard - cold water tank in the loft - something in the garage (white box) normal central heating system - its a new ish build detached house approx 10 years old - sorry this is all new to me and just been reading up on it over the last week or so and I don't want to pretend I know what I am talking about either lol.

any other information I can provide - what surprises me is firstly the pressure was great before two possible factors - the mains plumbing screw around and changing of bathroom suit in en suite

second question that makes me ponder is that both the hot and cold in both upstairs bathrroms of are very poor flow/pressure so makes me think it has to do with either the flow from the tank in the loft/airing cupboard or the system in general.

I am pondering on ways to try and locate it to a specific part of the system but no ideas come to mind as of yet. I suspect the taps are a key thing to do with it as I check under the sink earlier on and the flexi hose pipes are stupidly long that they are in a very big S shape and paired up with the fact that these taps probably require a min of 0.5 bar pressure that its just rubbish

thats just my 2 pence

 

[AWheating]

the house is to young really to have gravity cold supplys fitted to anything, i would suggest the best course of action is to flush the main testing its performance, replace the stop tap and non return under the sink on the main and then checking the fixtures like the float valves for dirt etc..... the poor hot water peerformance is most likely down to the taps fitted. 10m equals 1 bar so to get 0.5 bar to a upstairs tap you need the tank in the loft to be 5m above the tap if that helps give you a better understanding.

 

[Dannypipe]

This is why plumbers get a bad name. A few bad uns spoil it for all the decent, hard working and honest tradesmen out there.

This is basic plumbing and he's ripped you off.

I almost pity the next guy who comes to change the valve. You will be watching him like a hawk and questioning everything. I can't say I'd blame you either.

 

[AWheating]

This is why plumbers get a bad name. A few bad uns spoil it for all the decent, hard working and honest tradesmen out there.

This is basic plumbing and he's ripped you off.

I almost pity the next guy who comes to change the valve. You will be watching him like a hawk and questioning everything. I can't say I'd blame you either.

i could not sleep at night knowing id charged £300 for 2 hours work in which i had neither done anything or fixed the problem. 🙁

 

[chris watkins]

This is why plumbers get a bad name. A few bad uns spoil it for all the decent, hard working and honest tradesmen out there.

This is basic plumbing and he's ripped you off.

I almost pity the next guy who comes to change the valve. You will be watching him like a hawk and questioning everything. I can't say I'd blame you either.

NO NO NO NO...... Dannypipe don't you dare call these con men plumbers !!!! it is just because anybody can start up & call themselves one, that we have this bad reputation.

 

[IATM]

i could not sleep at night knowing id charged £300 for 2 hours work in which i had neither done anything or fixed the problem. 🙁

Your are right - it is really bad - I wouldnt care if they had done it to me (it wouldn have been possible) but obviously done it to my mum and pespecially when she was upset about my dad is what really bothers me.

I watch a lot of these cowboy builder programmers and cowboy traders and its taught me a lot and i can tell a dodgy guy straight away which is why i always get a quote first and get enough information from the tinternet before i meet anyone but it was just one of those times - thanks for your sympathy tho - nice to know there are really good tradesmen out their - just need you all to move up here !! lol

 

[AWheating]

Your are right - it is really bad - I wouldnt care if they had done it to me (it wouldn have been possible) but obviously done it to my mum and pespecially when she was upset about my dad is what really bothers me.

I watch a lot of these cowboy builder programmers and cowboy traders and its taught me a lot and i can tell a dodgy guy straight away which is why i always get a quote first and get enough information from the tinternet before i meet anyone but it was just one of those times - thanks for your sympathy tho - nice to know there are really good tradesmen out their - just need you all to move up here !! lol

the problem with those tv programs is they dont ever show a tradesman in a good light. Its 100% con man, which alerts potential customers to be aware but for the honest tradesman makes it alot harder to gain trust as many customers believe we are all them same. Tarnished with the same brush so to speak.

unfortunatley a program about a trademan who turns up and does a good job and not ripp the customer off makes for dull viewing.

 

[Millsy 82]

the house is to young really to have gravity cold supplys fitted to anything, i would suggest the best course of action is to flush the main testing its performance, replace the stop tap and non return under the sink on the main and then checking the fixtures like the float valves for dirt etc..... the poor hot water peerformance is most likely down to the taps fitted. 10m equals 1 bar so to get 0.5 bar to a upstairs tap you need the tank in the loft to be 5m above the tap if that helps give you a better understanding.

The chances are if they have put gravity HW in then they would have put gravity cold in. It does not really matter on the age.

If the pressure problem started when the CWSC was drained to change the taps then it is more likely air has got into the system. Easy to solve with a hose pipe and a cold tap. Before stripping everything apart costing more money start off with the easiest option first. After that I would start to strip things apart.

 

[IATM]

very true - I do always like it when the lady presenter goes and manages to get free stuff from generous local businesses and also local tradesmen come to help out for free (I know its good publicity for them) but its still nice to see them do this and also nice to see there are people who know what they are doing 🙂

 

[IATM]

The chances are if they have put gravity HW in then they would have put gravity cold in. It does not really matter on the age.

If the pressure problem started when the CWSC was drained to change the taps then it is more likely air has got into the system. Easy to solve with a hose pipe and a cold tap. Before stripping everything apart costing more money start off with the easiest option first. After that I would start to strip things apart.

can you advise the best way to drain the whole system and fill up to get rid of the air trapped? thanks