S
secret squirrel
I haven't started a thread for such a long time and I have the urge to write something so here goes:
This thread is meant for the people just entering the industry or wanting to. I have done a couple of similar threads before but this one is different (I think).
Firstly, I completed a fast track course which was 10 weeks incl. Part p, unvented cylinders, water regs and a couple of other bits....
I have been a plumber now for 2 years working for the best part on my own. So, anyone whose starting or wants to start in this industry, here's want I've learnt:
Plumbing is far from easy! Obviously. Just because you have a length of copper and a spanner your not a plumber. This industry is hateful, you can toil all day and for no reason you have a drip, sometimes, this involves cutting the pipe and starting a proportion of the work again. I installed a toilet in a property, no leaks done in an hour, (easy work) had to dismantle it again a week later (customer not happy and needed to tile behind it, could've told me that b4!) putting it all back, I couldn't stop it leaking......... thats plumbing. If this job goes wrong it goes wrong fast. I've watched someone change a ball valve live, I begged them not to do it but it wasn't my job I was assisting, we, didn't have enough towels for the carnage.....
Plumbing is not glamourous: customers want a lovely bathroom suite, state of the art and don't mind paying for the suite but are (in general) not interested in changing the problematic lead pipe coming in to the house. They'll spend huge amounts of money on the tap but will only want to pay silly money to have it installed.
Customers don't want to spend any money on things they don't see. There will be an Aston Martin on the drive but pay £75 to stop a pipe dripping HOW MUCH! £4000 to service the car is a talking point, so, is the bathroom but having a new 3 port valve fitted to have heating and hot water. Well, just not interesting. Then there is the customer who you see and its Where would you run the pipe then? would you use plastic? how do you run the waste? would you drain the system? As soon as the first question is asked you know its a waste of time.
This may come across as a little bitter but this is not the case. This is how it is. You develop your own way of dealing with the customer. Whether its cagey or just a shrug of the shoulders.
Following a lot of posts on here about pricing turns into a nightmare and when you start it is very difficult. Now I find it relatively easy, if your daily rate is £100 and you have a ball valve to do that is £50 + parts. I think of it like this:
I start work at 9.00 and you can't turn the water off, theres no light or boarding in the loft, no loft ladder, no isolating valve, the pipe work is awful and you can't undo the ball valve. So, 2 hours your out by 11 ish. Thats half a day. If your next job is at 1pm what do you do between 11 and 1pm! Ok, then if the job is the opposite, water is easy to turn off boarding and lighting etc then you can drop the charge but then its a personal choice.
I never (now) start work at 11am because the customer has a day off and wants a lie in. The reason is simple, if the job goes a bit pear shape you'll find yourself there earning half a days money and using the whole day. When I'm quoting a slightly bigger job then I'll use my day rate cost of parts +10% (depending) and then add £10 for consumables. Gas, flux, screws the endless trip to the van for that 1 extra elbow, where and tear on tools....
Remember, when you start out, you have all the extra costs that you don't think about when pricing, accountant, fuel, tax, liability insurance etc the list is endless. So, that sharp intake the customer does, well, let them have your costs. I now never negotiate on price either pay or get someone else. A good point and my final point on this is: if you say to a customer it'll cost about £50 and your there an extra 2 hours because of work you couldn't possibly fore see at the end of the customer will hand you £50 before you even hand them a bill.
When you start out, you want to take on all jobs don't be afraid to walk away. I recently had to price a bathroom job and the customer had already bought the bath, well it didn't fit into the room. The shower fitted was a 7.5 kw the new shower was 9kw obviously had to increase the cable. Well, according to the man in the shop who sold it that wasn't the case. I respectfully declined the job. We were disagreeing straight from the beginning. Its only going to end badly.
If you have an opportunity, work with someone whose good, whether they're good or not you'll know within a couple of hours. I work with 2 others now and the things they've taught me are unbelievable, what you can or cannot get away with! No, I don't work for free but I don't get my day rate. Its much reduced but sometimes its good to be told what to do and not have the responsibility.
Finally, take your time don't rush, a job will always take longer than you think. If it doesn't your on a bonus. If you don't know something ask! the manufacturer, your supplier anyone. Take pictures and don't worry about sitting in your van for 5 minutes to get that sense of perspective back, sometime you won't be able to see the wood for the trees.
Well, I hope someone has found this useful.....................
This thread is meant for the people just entering the industry or wanting to. I have done a couple of similar threads before but this one is different (I think).
Firstly, I completed a fast track course which was 10 weeks incl. Part p, unvented cylinders, water regs and a couple of other bits....
I have been a plumber now for 2 years working for the best part on my own. So, anyone whose starting or wants to start in this industry, here's want I've learnt:
Plumbing is far from easy! Obviously. Just because you have a length of copper and a spanner your not a plumber. This industry is hateful, you can toil all day and for no reason you have a drip, sometimes, this involves cutting the pipe and starting a proportion of the work again. I installed a toilet in a property, no leaks done in an hour, (easy work) had to dismantle it again a week later (customer not happy and needed to tile behind it, could've told me that b4!) putting it all back, I couldn't stop it leaking......... thats plumbing. If this job goes wrong it goes wrong fast. I've watched someone change a ball valve live, I begged them not to do it but it wasn't my job I was assisting, we, didn't have enough towels for the carnage.....
Plumbing is not glamourous: customers want a lovely bathroom suite, state of the art and don't mind paying for the suite but are (in general) not interested in changing the problematic lead pipe coming in to the house. They'll spend huge amounts of money on the tap but will only want to pay silly money to have it installed.
Customers don't want to spend any money on things they don't see. There will be an Aston Martin on the drive but pay £75 to stop a pipe dripping HOW MUCH! £4000 to service the car is a talking point, so, is the bathroom but having a new 3 port valve fitted to have heating and hot water. Well, just not interesting. Then there is the customer who you see and its Where would you run the pipe then? would you use plastic? how do you run the waste? would you drain the system? As soon as the first question is asked you know its a waste of time.
This may come across as a little bitter but this is not the case. This is how it is. You develop your own way of dealing with the customer. Whether its cagey or just a shrug of the shoulders.
Following a lot of posts on here about pricing turns into a nightmare and when you start it is very difficult. Now I find it relatively easy, if your daily rate is £100 and you have a ball valve to do that is £50 + parts. I think of it like this:
I start work at 9.00 and you can't turn the water off, theres no light or boarding in the loft, no loft ladder, no isolating valve, the pipe work is awful and you can't undo the ball valve. So, 2 hours your out by 11 ish. Thats half a day. If your next job is at 1pm what do you do between 11 and 1pm! Ok, then if the job is the opposite, water is easy to turn off boarding and lighting etc then you can drop the charge but then its a personal choice.
I never (now) start work at 11am because the customer has a day off and wants a lie in. The reason is simple, if the job goes a bit pear shape you'll find yourself there earning half a days money and using the whole day. When I'm quoting a slightly bigger job then I'll use my day rate cost of parts +10% (depending) and then add £10 for consumables. Gas, flux, screws the endless trip to the van for that 1 extra elbow, where and tear on tools....
Remember, when you start out, you have all the extra costs that you don't think about when pricing, accountant, fuel, tax, liability insurance etc the list is endless. So, that sharp intake the customer does, well, let them have your costs. I now never negotiate on price either pay or get someone else. A good point and my final point on this is: if you say to a customer it'll cost about £50 and your there an extra 2 hours because of work you couldn't possibly fore see at the end of the customer will hand you £50 before you even hand them a bill.
When you start out, you want to take on all jobs don't be afraid to walk away. I recently had to price a bathroom job and the customer had already bought the bath, well it didn't fit into the room. The shower fitted was a 7.5 kw the new shower was 9kw obviously had to increase the cable. Well, according to the man in the shop who sold it that wasn't the case. I respectfully declined the job. We were disagreeing straight from the beginning. Its only going to end badly.
If you have an opportunity, work with someone whose good, whether they're good or not you'll know within a couple of hours. I work with 2 others now and the things they've taught me are unbelievable, what you can or cannot get away with! No, I don't work for free but I don't get my day rate. Its much reduced but sometimes its good to be told what to do and not have the responsibility.
Finally, take your time don't rush, a job will always take longer than you think. If it doesn't your on a bonus. If you don't know something ask! the manufacturer, your supplier anyone. Take pictures and don't worry about sitting in your van for 5 minutes to get that sense of perspective back, sometime you won't be able to see the wood for the trees.
Well, I hope someone has found this useful.....................
