My 2p worth

[secret squirrel]

MARK UP & CUSTOMER SUPPLYING PARTS;

Whilst I don't agree with a huge mark up, I think a mark up is required, maybe 10% is a bit low! depends on how the individual feels.

Yes, I agree that the customer can go and supply parts (which as we all know does happen) and just wants to pay for the labour.

Then the labour costs can spiral out of control. If the customer has supplied the new hot water cylinder you fit it and then the thing leaks (the cylinder is faulty) it is then the customers responsibility to replace that cylinder! do you then sit there and wait getting paid for it, go home and come back the next day etc.

The other problem with the customer supplying the cylinder (just chosen a cylinder at random) is that there is now a debate (possibly) over the remainder of the parts. Tank connectors bit of 22mm here and there etc.

The other issue about not making a mark up is time and fuel: I recently had to do a new cold water tank install, I had to go to 3 different suppliers to buy everything needed. So, to do this at cost I would have lost out on labour.

Also, if the customer buys the wrong part, too big/small etc. You are being paid for sitting there waiting. Or the customer says "just sort it out" then the half days work now turns into practically all day whilst you sort out the parts. Again you have issues over the cost of labour.

One more point on customer supplying parts:

Go back to the cylinder for a moment; we all know that water is a pig! you can leave it for a couple of days and its all fine THEN! so, you pop back and the cylinder/tap (whatever) has developed a fault. Customer has supplied the part, do you then do the work for free to correct the cylinder/tap etc? or do you spend a morning disconnecting it all, then another half day sorting it all out again OR do you charge! arguments that you just don't need.

These are issues that customers do not consider when they buy the parts. Yes, they probably can buy them a bit cheaper......................

Just one more small point, I (just personal choice) prefer quality waste fitting, I find them easier to use leak less etc etc. The cost of these is are more that the cheaper fitting at the sheds but if you spend more on quality components, sometimes, you save on labour costs..

 

[royston]

Agree totally with the waste fittings, there is some real cheap rubbish fittings out there. As for customer buying taps/cylinders i always stress before i fit them that if there is a future problem with it and they call me back, then there will be a charge to fix, even if it is within the manufacture warrenty. Unless of course it hasnt been fitted correctly or sealed correctly. I know you will still get hassle with customers but hey thats what we all have to put up with. Yes i do agree with mark up as discussed above, and yeah 50% here is not attainable.

 

[Bartdude]

You simply have to put a mark up on materials,the amount is a personal decision,I tend to make it around 25%.It depends on the job really,but I can't supply materials at retail price,it would make my quotes too expensive and it just doesn't seem fair to me.

The mark up has to pay towards your time and fuel I agree,it would be interesting to know how many hours each year I spend making lists,getting prices,researching the right materials,etc.It all adds up,and it has to be accounted for somehow.Most people understand this I think.

It can be tricky when customers want to supply their own materials,I agree with the points made about labour being chargeable sorting out problems,but that has to be made clear to the customer at the start and when problems arise there can be difficulty establishing where the line should be drawn.It's fraught with problems I think and I would rather avoid it if possible.I'll supply and I'll sort the problems,which are less likely because it won't be the cheap internet tat that people seem to buy these days.

 

[kay-jay]

great thread! much food for thought.

KJ

 

[WaterTight]

How funny is it that most of us don't think we could get away with charging for parts what B+Q or Wickes do. That one or two-man bands would feel like crooks charging for a few parts at the rate that these huge companies will happily charge for their parts sold by the warehouse-full.

 

[WaterTight]

Hmm. Maybe thing to do would be to carry B+Q catalouge and take it out infront of customer while surveying job. Give customer a calculator and point to items going "you'll want two of those, three of those..."

"Ok materials for your syphon change and ball-valve replacement......£109.50"

 

[Spike295]

Hmm. Maybe thing to do would be to carry B+Q catalouge and take it out infront of customer while surveying job. Give customer a calculator and point to items going "you'll want two of those, three of those..."

"Ok materials for your syphon change and ball-valve replacement......£109.50"

Try pricing all your jobs from now on from the B & Q catalogue & see if you still have a business in 6 months time!

 

[GQuigley67]

I always go to plumbing merchants for my fittings, got an account with a local independant one the guys are great and they offer me credit but some of the stuff isn't of good quality. Just applied for an account with wolseley also. B&Q's prices are a joke, and toolstation and screwfix stuff doesnt look too great.

 

[quality]

Hmm. Maybe thing to do would be to carry B+Q catalouge and take it out infront of customer while surveying job. Give customer a calculator and point to items going "you'll want two of those, three of those..."

"Ok materials for your syphon change and ball-valve replacement......£109.50"

Sounds ok around 109 quid ,materials about 10 thats 20 to the customer at least 50 to even get in the van and the rest is labour
is there any wonder I don`t fit syphons etc

 

[SimonG]

I always go to plumbing merchants for my fittings, got an account with a local independant one the guys are great and they offer me credit but some of the stuff isn't of good quality. Just applied for an account with wolseley also. B&Q's prices are a joke, and toolstation and screwfix stuff doesnt look too great.

I think it's like everything. I use Screwfix and Toolstation for some gear (BUT NOT TRAPS), HWOS for my oil bits solder fittings compression fittings and pumps and the rest from the local build center who have a really good plumbing section.

 

[philtheflush]

great thread but its what all trades go through and always will its all about balance on charging for return repairs ect, but youve got to realize being a good plumber its just not plumbing,its being diplomatic and fair and thats when youre name gets around , but try and tell the customer the reason why youve got charge for this and that.youve got a buisness to run and they would do the same im on the 25% side

 

[moony]

Do you give pensioners 20% discount on a wednesday?
I'm the same as the next man who wants to make a bit on materials, but i can honestly say i dont get 50% discount over what Joe Public could buy the same for from my local merchant!

joe public shouldnt really be using the trade counter (hence word trade) but they do - but the ones who go there prob do the the job themselves anyway.

 

[Spike295]

Joe Public are entitled to shop wherever they please, but if you are a trader & hold an account with certain merchants, its your loyalty & frequent spending with them that entitles you to trade discounts, therefore Joe Public buys a certain item for X amount of pounds, you buy the same item for 25/30/35% less....my arguement is that you cant charge them twice as much as what you buy it for because it will cost more than what the can buy it for anyway...but by all means add the 25/30/35% back on & charge them that!

 

[johnmcginty]

If materials cost you £400 & you charge £800 it wont be long before the customer realises he could of bought them himself for less than you are charging! Sorry but its practices like this that get plumbers their 'rip off ' reputation & gives us plumbers a bad name. We all like to make a bit, but there is making a bit & 'making a bit'!

I think he's is fine to charge that as he did say it was still roughly retail price. If the customer buys the part and it fails and floods thier house who's insurance does it come out of, how can you guarantee a part you did'nt buy yourself? what if he bought it from india last week and it is total rubbish?

 

[Spike295]

I think he's is fine to charge that as he did say it was still roughly retail price. If the customer buys the part and it fails and floods thier house who's insurance does it come out of, how can you guarantee a part you did'nt buy yourself? what if he bought it from india last week and it is total rubbish?

So to charge the customer double the price of what the customer could buy it for anyway, same part from the same place is ok because if the part fails its your insurance thats liable!!!!!!!!

 

[GQuigley67]

i only offer a gaurantee on the stuff that i supply, i add around 20% usually. But anything customer supplied that was dodgy i would make sure not to be held liable but if they supply decent stuff then whats the problem

 

[SafeGasInstall]

every one has different philosophies about charge rates . as long as you get jobs and then you get paid I don't see problem !
but I think we all have to be reasonable to be able to get more work from the same customers and get recommended by them to all there friends and family members . what I have experienced lately is that all customers are asking for a break dawn of the price and then they go on line to see how much this cost how much that cost ! Times are difficult and every one is trying to look after the 1p let alone the 2p !

 

[GQuigley67]

the 20% for materials is for my troubles in getting them, then the labour rate for onsite work