NIBE F205 boiler - please help!

[Misha]

OK so if you live alone how much hot water do you use, ? do you bath or shower, do you have a dish washer ? if you only shower then you don't need a tank of hot water, [if you have electric shower] got a dish washer ? then you don't need hot water for washing up , new washing machine only uses cold water

i probably only use about half a bathtub of water every day. That's for showering and washing dishes. The shower water is drawn from the hot water tank. I don't have a dishwasher. I have a new machine, but it does give you the option of using hot water. I, however, use a cold wash cycle.

 

[jtsplumbing]

I think you have had lots of advise on how to save energy ! if you want the place to be warm turn it on and pay the bill, only sure way of saving money is to use the off switch !!

 

[Nostrum]

10kwh is about £1.50.

 

[Nostrum]

The caretaker is right, you need to allow the rooms to heat up to 20 ish. Once it's up to temp you can set it back to 17-18 at night. If you let the place cool right down then the unit will be running its knackers off every day to raise the temp, subsequently costing more to run.

 

[Misha]

The caretaker is right, you need to allow the rooms to heat up to 20 ish. Once it's up to temp you can set it back to 17-18 at night. If you let the place cool right down then the unit will be running its knackers off every day to raise the temp, subsequently costing more to run.

When I had setting 2 on (before I realised how much energy the unit was consuming), I would leave the thermostat in the hallway set at 17 degrees for 12 hours while I was at work and then I would turn it up to 20 degrees for the other 12 hours. That's when I ended up using 25kWh a day. The thing with these units, is there is are ventilation devices that constantly suck in air and then vents that constantly allow air in from outside. When I had the TRVs in bedroom and open plan kitchen/lounge fully open, while my bathroom one was set at 3. When i checked the temperature with a thermometer, the temperature in my kitchen/living area was 16 degrees, my bathroom was 17 and my bedroom was 16. The trouble i'm having is that even when I set the temperature to 20, the rooms aren't warming up. I had the boiler set to 1 yesterday (immersion heater can't come on), i had the thermostat set to 20, the temperature kept falling down to 18 and would then take ages to go back up. I don't have access to the meters, so I can't tell you how much electricity was used in 24hrs. All I can go by is that 7 hour period from yesterday. The flat still wouldn't warm up though.

 

[jasonoldy69]

Hi Misha

We're currently trying to get housing associations in our area to rip these units out. We don't have the F205, but we have the same models, 360P and F370. They too, over-ventilate the home and rely on the immersion heater.

A heating consultant that's working with us on our campaign has suggested a way to reduce energy use in the meantime:-

Block all your inlet wall vents.
Turn your boiler off completely.
Use space heaters where you would like warmth.
Wash your pots with your kettle.
When you need a shower, turn your boiler on and use the hot water boost for 30mins-1hr. Have your shower and turn the boiler off again.

By doing this, you've cut out 24hrs worth of unnecessary 100W ventilation. Your home will stay warm and draft free, and you're not exhausting away your warm air. Using the immersion for an hour will be better than have the compressor and immersion cutting in all day.

Hope this helps.

Also, you can have a standard energy meter connected directly to the boiler. That would be your best option if you wanted to monitor it still.

 

[Misha]

Hi Misha

We're currently trying to get housing associations in our area to rip these units out. We don't have the F205, but we have the same models, 360P and F370. They too, over-ventilate the home and rely on the immersion heater.

A heating consultant that's working with us on our campaign has suggested a way to reduce energy use in the meantime:-

Block all your inlet wall vents.
Turn your boiler off completely.
Use space heaters where you would like warmth.
Wash your pots with your kettle.
When you need a shower, turn your boiler on and use the hot water boost for 30mins-1hr. Have your shower and turn the boiler off again.

By doing this, you've cut out 24hrs worth of unnecessary 100W ventilation. Your home will stay warm and draft free, and you're not exhausting away your warm air. Using the immersion for an hour will be better than have the compressor and immersion cutting in all day.

Hope this helps.

Also, you can have a standard energy meter connected directly to the boiler. That would be your best option if you wanted to monitor it still.

Hi Jason

Are you a plumber? Or are you a resident with a NIBE boiler?

Thanks for the energy saving tips! I have been afraid to turn the boiler off in case I damage it by doing so. I can't believe I've used so much energy, and I haven't felt any benefit! How did you find the heating consultant? I've spoken to a few people on the estate; some have had high bills while others haven't.

Where would I get a standard energy meter from?

Thanks!

 

[jasonoldy69]

No, I'm not a plumber. I shareown a property with a NIBE 360P.

If you watched the BBC Rip Off Britain, the consultant is on their, Geoff Morgan. There's a website you can contact him through: search "ukheatpumpsolutions".

I've managed to group together almost 150 NIBE users in our area, pushing for something to be done. Some are paying £2k a year electric (If anyone says that's because of the user and not the boiler, I'll scream).

Those that think their bills are reasonable don't understand that their home is supposed to be cutting 25% off their bill compared to older homes. Heat pumps are supposed to be 300% efficient if they are to be used over gas. NIBE EAHPs are the only heat pumps on the market dirtier than coal!

By standard energy meter, I mean the meters you usually get to monitor your whole house. The ones were you clip a sensor somewhere on your fuse box, but in the case it's clipped on the power cable to the boiler.

 

[Misha]

No, I'm not a plumber. I shareown a property with a NIBE 360P.

If you watched the BBC Rip Off Britain, the consultant is on their, Geoff Morgan. There's a website you can contact him through: search "ukheatpumpsolutions".

I've managed to group together almost 150 NIBE users in our area, pushing for something to be done. Some are paying £2k a year electric (If anyone says that's because of the user and not the boiler, I'll scream).

Those that think their bills are reasonable don't understand that their home is supposed to be cutting 25% off their bill compared to older homes. Heat pumps are supposed to be 300% efficient if they are to be used over gas. NIBE EAHPs are the only heat pumps on the market dirtier than coal!

By standard energy meter, I mean the meters you usually get to monitor your whole house. The ones were you clip a sensor somewhere on your fuse box, but in the case it's clipped on the power cable to the boiler.

Thanks - I'll try to contact the energy consultant.

Oh my goodness, as far as my landlord is concerned, there is no issue with the unit. Some of the other residents have had high bills but aren't willing to do anything about it. I said I'd like to get together and take some sort of group action, but no, nobody is interested :-S

My landlord has requested in writing that I leave the power supply to the Nibe unit on at all times. This is frustrating. I can't afford to waste electricity.

 

[jasonoldy69]

Best thing to do, if you're on your own, is to start a formal complaint with your landlord. Is your landlord an individual or a housing association?

You want to get the Housing Ombudsman Service involved, but they only agree to help you if you've given your landlord a chance to resolve your problem.

Get some advice from Trading Standards or Citizens Advice.

I'm about to get a final decision from the Housing Ombudsman this week, but, it's taken a whole year for them to take action. Plus the year or so it took to get through my housing association's complaints process. So be aware that this is going to take some time.

Going legal is another option. But, without many people sharing the fees, it's not worth it.

Keep complaining, keeping bugging them, and something will eventually be done. Once you go quiet, they've won.

 

[Misha]

Best thing to do, if you're on your own, is to start a formal complaint with your landlord. Is your landlord an individual or a housing association?

You want to get the Housing Ombudsman Service involved, but they only agree to help you if you've given your landlord a chance to resolve your problem.

Get some advice from Trading Standards or Citizens Advice.

I'm about to get a final decision from the Housing Ombudsman this week, but, it's taken a whole year for them to take action. Plus the year or so it took to get through my housing association's complaints process. So be aware that this is going to take some time.

Going legal is another option. But, without many people sharing the fees, it's not worth it.

Keep complaining, keeping bugging them, and something will eventually be done. Once you go quiet, they've won.

Thanks for your fast response.

The landlord is a property developer. They have many properties and are funded by the HCA.

I can't afford to go legal, otherwise I would. I'm tired of this. I can't afford to stay at this place much longer. No way if i'm receiving huge bills, and it's really, really cold. When I woke up this morning, it was 12 degrees. i've had to turn the heating all the way down because I can't afford to pay bills of over 100 pounds. I just can't.

Good luck - I really hope you win your campaign.

 

[jasonoldy69]

You can follow us on Facebook if you like "Ferriby Rise NIBE Problems".

You may, instead of complaining about cost, complain about its reliability. A number of units have been replaced in our area on the basis that they were unreliable.

If it is unable to maintain a comfortable temperature (20+ degrees c), and your developer has wasted time trying to get it to work for you, they may agree upon a replacement. By law, they are supposed to provide a working heating system. Do they offer to regularly maintain the unit as part of your tenancy?

 

[doitmyself]

It may be a long shot, but I wonder if the rads have been correctly sized for the low flow and return temperatures. At the recommended temperatures of 55C flow & 45C return a radiator will be producing 50% of the advertised output.

 

[Misha]

It may be a long shot, but I wonder if the rads have been correctly sized for the low flow and return temperatures. At the recommended temperatures of 55C flow & 45C return a radiator will be producing 50% of the advertised output.

What information would be needed to work out if the rads have been correctly sized? What exactly are flow and return temperatures? I don't really understand.

 

[Misha]

You can follow us on Facebook if you like "Ferriby Rise NIBE Problems".

You may, instead of complaining about cost, complain about its reliability. A number of units have been replaced in our area on the basis that they were unreliable.

If it is unable to maintain a comfortable temperature (20+ degrees c), and your developer has wasted time trying to get it to work for you, they may agree upon a replacement. By law, they are supposed to provide a working heating system. Do they offer to regularly maintain the unit as part of your tenancy?

As far as the developer is concerned, they don't believe the Nibe unit is functioning incorrectly. As for the maintenance issue, the housing association is going to get back to me. Repairs are dealt with by the property developer, not sure about regular maintenance of the unit.

 

[itspaul]

I have a fair amount of experience of these units and overall they are a good unit if they are used and setup properly they also need servicing annually which includes cleaning the air intakes in the kitchen and bathroom. And cleaning the filter in the unit regularly . Running on setting one just uses the heat pump.in colder weather number 2 brings in the immersion to boost the water temp to help the pump out. On number 3 it uses the immersion only not the heat pump this is an emergency setting if the heat pump has got a problem. The output is about 4 kW and flow temps of around 50 deg so it needs to be on all the time with a set back temp at night this is setup using the nibe controller / programmable stat these are a pain to set up if your not used to them but if you can get it set up properly they are a reliable unit and do the job

 

[Misha]

I have a fair amount of experience of these units and overall they are a good unit if they are used and setup properly they also need servicing annually which includes cleaning the air intakes in the kitchen and bathroom. And cleaning the filter in the unit regularly . Running on setting one just uses the heat pump.in colder weather number 2 brings in the immersion to boost the water temp to help the pump out. On number 3 it uses the immersion only not the heat pump this is an emergency setting if the heat pump has got a problem. The output is about 4 kW and flow temps of around 50 deg so it needs to be on all the time with a set back temp at night this is setup using the nibe controller / programmable stat these are a pain to set up if your not used to them but if you can get it set up properly they are a reliable unit and do the job

thanks for your response. Do the systems actually consume less energy than other heating systems? When I have the thermostat in the hallway set to 21 degrees and have the TRVs open fully on all radiators, the temperature in my lounge/kitchen area and bedroom gets to 16 degrees. Is that normal? And my lounge area radiator only gets hot at the top; it's cold at the bottom. Is that what is meant to happen?

 

[jasonoldy69]

but if you can get it set up properly they are a reliable unit and do the job

At a cost.

 

[doitmyself]

What information would be needed to work out if the rads have been correctly sized? What exactly are flow and return temperatures? I don't really understand.

Ideally, you need to know the heat loss in each room. However, the total heat loss in the flat should be enough You can find this out by using Baxi Whole House Boiler Size Calculator.

Information on typical radiators can be found on page 44 of Stelrad Catalogue

Post the information.

Flow and Return Temperatures

The flow temperature is the temperature of the heated water leaving the boiler and travelling to the radiators.
Heat is extracted from the water by the radiators, so the water temperature leaving the rads and returning to the boiler is lower. This is the return temperature.

The output of a radiator depends on the temperatures of the water entering and leaving the rad. So this is standardised at 75C flow and 65C return. If different temperatures are used a formula is used to calculate the rad output.

 

[itspaul]

It's also important with these systems that the circulating pump is working correctly and the flow rates are not to high