Open Flue and Ventilation query

[Mbear]

just a difference in opinion mbear, i would be quite happy with an ncs or id choice in the real world. sometimes its best to ignore your line manager and do what you feel is right. nobody can say your a bad engineer for that.

I'D or NCS only would be better for us folk. It'd Save trying to fix 20yr old boilers and force the Custs hand to replace, give us more boiler changes which I prefer doing when the chances arise.

Don't get me wrong though migo, for talking sake roughly 2month ago I went to a back boiler that had no fire on the front(just a bare back boiler) that was still operational to carry out a service. While I did look through the unsafe sits book for this issue or something remotely similar, I couldn't find anything that refered to it. My gaffer said as long as it's not spilling then AR would suffice but he left it to my eng judgement. But I wasn't happy with that myself so It got capped. The vent wasn't correct either but I didn't take this into account when ID-ing it. The bare back boiler was enough for me in this situation. The cust was furious saying it had been like that for yrs (I don't think she'd had it serviced in 10yrs). No chance was it getting left on, no chance!!

 

[kirkgas]

One mans at risk is another mans Imediately dangerous, I use my own judgement , better to err on the side of caution than try and argue in court as to why you didnt take any action, this is why I hate doing landlords certs as if you look hard enough you will always find a problem. I dont have the best people skills, I have 2 settings, chilled out, and ready to punch somone in the face when custards question somthing Iam doing for thier safety.Having said that in 13 yrs Ive only had to shut down 2 apliances

that statement may be true for some situations, IUP is always going to cause some debate, BUT there are described faults in each group, no vent on BBU is AR, you have no right to cap without permission, and in these days of no win no fee, sue your backside off, it is only a matter of time before someone sues a gas guy for trying to save someone from themselves, if i correctly AR something, then follow the regs I am completely safe and sleep well at night

 

[Mbear]

that statement may be true for some situations, IUP is always going to cause some debate, BUT there are described faults in each group, no vent on BBU is AR, you have no right to cap without permission, and in these days of no win no fee, sue your backside off, it is only a matter of time before someone sues a gas guy for trying to save someone from themselves, if i correctly AR something, then follow the regs I am completely safe and sleep well at night

exactly, you can't go to jail for doing it all by the book.

The regs are there to protect the cust but also us engineers.

 

[kirkgas]

lol🙂, Ive been very close a few times, Ive had to grow up alot and alter my behavoir (sp) since running my own business, things like not ogleing girls at bus stops, not getting road rage, you never know if they might be your next customer.Iam a business man now in my local comunity and to comand respect youve got to respect others...... everyone has thier breaking point though.

very big of you to stop ogling my daughter now that you are a self employed grown up, i am so happy you only ogled her from the comfort of a sign written van that your employer paid for and hoped that the young lady would contact his firm to get some work done, now he realises why they didnt phone him before

I'D or NCS only would be better for us folk. It'd Save trying to fix 20yr old boilers and force the Custs hand to replace, give us more boiler changes which I prefer doing when the chances arise.

Don't get me wrong though migo, for talking sake roughly 2month ago I went to a back boiler that had no fire on the front(just a bare back boiler) that was still operational to carry out a service. While I did look through the unsafe sits book for this issue or something remotely similar, I couldn't find anything that refered to it. My gaffer said as long as it's not spilling then AR would suffice but he left it to my eng judgement. But I wasn't happy with that myself so It got capped. The vent wasn't correct either but I didn't take this into account when ID-ing it. The bare back boiler was enough for me in this situation. The cust was furious saying it had been like that for yrs (I don't think she'd had it serviced in 10yrs). No chance was it getting left on, no chance!!

this scenario is AR, and only from the point that there is a burn risk from the heat exchanger (assuming, i know we shouldnt, that the gas supply was properly capped) it cant be ID which is causing an immediated danger to life as a gas engineer has to run it like that while doing a service and safety checks on a BBU

 

[Blackcatgas]

very big of you to stop ogling my daughter now that you are a self employed grown up, i am so happy you only ogled her from the comfort of a sign written van that your employer paid for and hoped that the young lady would contact his firm to get some work done, now he realises why they didnt phone him before

this scenario is AR, and only from the point that there is a burn risk from the heat exchanger (assuming, i know we shouldnt, that the gas supply was properly capped) it cant be ID which is causing an immediated danger to life as a gas engineer has to run it like that while doing a service and safety checks on a BBU

Wtfs got into you tonight Kirkgas😀😛?, I dont know your daughter, Ive never ogled a girl from the comfrot of an employers sign written van, Ive got a big love bus with blacked out windows for that.

that statement may be true for some situations, IUP is always going to cause some debate, BUT there are described faults in each group, no vent on BBU is AR, you have no right to cap without permission, and in these days of no win no fee, sue your backside off, it is only a matter of time before someone sues a gas guy for trying to save someone from themselves, if i correctly AR something, then follow the regs I am completely safe and sleep well at night

Your interpretation of a described fault maybe different to mine or the next mans, Ive only ever had to cap off 2 aplainces before, a boiler with the flue terminating into a sun lounge, and a gas fire that the gas pipe was leaking badly corroded as it was exposed to soot.

 

[Puddle]

and in these days of no win no fee, sue your backside off, it is only a matter of time before someone sues a gas guy for trying to save someone from themselves

There are to many variables here,no one is going to sue you,a good defense lawyer would have any prosecution running for the door
There is no win ,no fee,but if the lawyer knows he can not win,therefore not get paid (the insurance scam is over),he is not going to waste his time
You are going to have all the industry on your side and probably the judge

Every year the powers that be get stricter and stricter on open flued appliances,encouraging more and more for people to replace


You leave on and something happens,with or without a bit of paper ,you are in trouble because obviously something else was wrong,directly or indirectly,which is quite possible

ID ,AR,in other areas we would probably agree but on a open flued appliance if all the main boxes are not ticked,I ID
and all the main agents and main landlords I work for agree


imho

 

[kirkgas]

There are to many variables here,no one is going to sue you,a good defense lawyer would have any prosecution running for the door
There is no win ,no fee,but if the lawyer knows he can not win,therefore not get paid (the insurance scam is over),he is not going to waste his time
You are going to have all the industry on your side and probably the judge


i'm not sure how many from the industry would stand up in court to back an engineer who admitted breaking the regs by capping an AR without permission, out of court there would be sympathy but could you honestly agree that them breaking the regs that you stick by was the right decision, some might even go down the route of saying it was capped as a way of forcing more work/money, a dangerous place to be, why not turn off the AR and advise as per the law

Wtfs got into you tonight Kirkgas😀😛?, I dont know your daughter, Ive never ogled a girl from the comfrot of an employers sign written van, Ive got a big love bus with blacked out windows for that.

thats all right then

 

[Mbear]

very big of you to stop ogling my daughter now that you are a self employed grown up, i am so happy you only ogled her from the comfort of a sign written van that your employer paid for and hoped that the young lady would contact his firm to get some work done, now he realises why they didnt phone him before



this scenario is AR, and only from the point that there is a burn risk from the heat exchanger (assuming, i know we shouldnt, that the gas supply was properly capped) it cant be ID which is causing an immediated danger to life as a gas engineer has to run it like that while doing a service and safety checks on a BBU

well what I was put my ID down to was these factors

1. As you say, serious burn risk
2. Air flow is affected because the fire is missing, ie not the way that baxi intended
3. It's a parent and child appliance which share the same flue and as such should always be fitted together
4. Below 90% ventilation

I classified as ID for 1-3, ie if the vent was ok I would still have capped it. The vent being wrong just adds flames to the fire obviously