Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

Over 3 mins to get hot water in kitchen - is this normal?

Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws

L

LCV

Hi,

My family have just moved back in from a house renovation just before the Easter bank holiday. When I turned on the tap in the kitchen to wash up and it takes over 3 mins before the water was hot enough to wash up. I had a large kitchen sink put in and I managed to fill that up with cold water which I had to then drain away to replace it with the hot water. It would have been faster (and used less water) if I had boiled the kettle for the hot water. I now wash my hands with cold water after I have used the toilet because it takes so long and as a family so much water is wasted while we wait for it to be hot enough to bathe and shower.

I feel concerned. Is this normal? Before the renovation I did not have to wait long to get hot water to all my taps.

We had a Vaillant system boiler with a 250L indirect hot water cylinder put in. The previous combi boiler was moved from the kitchen to the Utility room. The kitchen is at the front of the house while the Utility room is at the back of the house on the same floor. The previous house was over 3 floors with 2 bathrooms and a loft conversion has taken it to 4 floors and 3 bathrooms. We were told that we would have to wait up to a minute to get hot water in the loft which we said we were fine with but it is actually a lot longer than that and we certainly did not expect the rest of the house to be affected in this way.

I will go back to the plumber to discuss but wanted to get your views and advice first. I am really hoping the problem is to do with a setting on the boiler.

Thanks!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sort by date Sort by votes
Riley said:
Are you pulling through just hot water or a mix of hot and cold
Click to expand...

Just turned the hot handle.
Tap.jpg
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
We have actually spent all our life savings renovating the house. That is why I feel so upset this has happened. I woke up feeling completely depressed today.

I don't even understand how this could have happened. I did my reference checks and visited two of their previous clients whose houses were much bigger than mine and their renovation more complicated and they couldn't praise the builder and team highly enough. Their other client I spoke with was an Architect and the renovation on his house won them a very prestigious award. They had new heating and hot water systems put in.

I actually feel cursed. Sorry just feel upset about the situation. I spoke with Mak yesterday and he said the only solution is to have a secondary return put in. I have no idea whether they would agree to it and I can't bear the thought of moving out again living out of boxes and seeing my house being smashed up when we have just moved back in. It was May 2015 when works started on the house.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
G3 means that they are qualified in working in domestic hot water in your instance the ability to work on and install invented hot water cylinders. One would hope that your plumber was otherwise you could have a bomb waiting to go off in your utility room. Not wanting to put the frighteners on but it's true. Most will have a card, often if they are gas safe then they will have it on their gas safe account
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
He has never given or shown me a card but I think he is gas safe registered because he made the connection for my gas cooker. I will look him up on the gas safe register and find out.
Thanks!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LCV said:
the hot water cylinder is on the ground floor in the utility room with the boiler.
Click to expand...

any luck with finding out if hes qualified/ registered ? if you can find any info on him have a look in the boiler manufactures instructions (servicing/ commission) in the back hes details and gas safe no should be there if hes gas safe,

if not call gas safe out and ask them to have a look at the install
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I only know the builder's team so electrician, plumber, carpenter, tiler etc on a first name basis. From the replies here I know he needs to provide me with paperwork for me to submit to building regs so he must have to put down his full details on that.

Also, does he need to provide me with a plan showing the layout of the pipework?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Hi Shaun - erm the back of the boiler manual is blank. Is this the paperwork that he is meant to provide me with? perhaps he forgot to do that or I need to ask him to complete it. Is it usually done as a matter of course after a completed install?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LCV said:
I only know the builder's team so electrician, plumber, carpenter, tiler etc on a first name basis. From the replies here I know he needs to provide me with paperwork for me to submit to building regs so he must have to put down his full details on that.

Also, does he need to provide me with a plan showing the layout of the pipework?
Click to expand...

no, but they may be marked on the builders plans (long shot),
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LCV said:
Hi Shaun - erm the back of the boiler manual is blank. Is this the paperwork that he is meant to provide me with? perhaps he forgot to do that or I need to ask him to complete it. Is it usually done as a matter of course after a completed install?
Click to expand...

yes they need to be filled in i would say hes not gas safe registered and dont think hes g3 registered

next bet would be phone the builder up and ask him direct, you want to see your plumber/ boilers man gas card if he stalls thats a bad sign
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0 Downvote
You are never going to be exactly sure how to proceed with tackling your problem unless you get the opinion of a plumber who actually gets a look at the work. Post photos of the hot cylinder and its pipework etc.
Or you will have to pay a plumber to inspect as much as they can and give you a report. For that you would have to pay
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Isn't illegal to make gas connections if you are not gas safe registered. I can't e-mail the builder to ask this at this point because I am still waiting to hear from them about when they are going to come over to discuss my hot water issue.

The builder's company is registered with the reputable trade bodies, FMB and Build Assure, and is highly rated on Mybuilder site. Surely he wasn't use someone that is not gas safe registered, just wouldn't make sense for him to do that. But it is strange that he didn't complete the card at the back so I will ask for it to be done and check him out to be safe. I have two children that I need to protect.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LCV said:
Isn't illegal to make gas connections if you are not gas safe registered. I can't e-mail the builder to ask this at this point because I am still waiting to hear from them about when they are going to come over to discuss my hot water issue.

The builder's company is registered with the reputable trade bodies, FMB and Build Assure, and is highly rated on Mybuilder site. Surely he wasn't use someone that is not gas safe registered, just wouldn't make sense for him to do that. But it is strange that he didn't complete the card at the back so I will ask for it to be done and check him out to be safe. I have two children that I need to protect.
Click to expand...

you cant touch anything related to gas unless your gas safe, and the person who installed the cylinder needs to be g3 reg as well
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
The kitchen, loft and ground floor toilet take 3+minutes. The taps in the 1st and 2nd floor bathroom take about 2mins but the time is a lot shorter if for example I've washed up in the kitchen and then popped upstairs to use the toilet in the 1st floor bathroom.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I feel the same and my plumbing knowledge is zero. Something feels wrong.
The builder must feel the same too because he thought without the ring I would receive hot water in the loft in 20-40seconds and that's in the loft on the 4th floor.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
If it's a balanced cold then yes I can understand the 4th floor being very slow
But not the kitchen on ground floor as this should in principle be the quickest
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Even if the boiler and cylinder is at the back of the house and the kitchen and toilet is at the front of the house?

As I mentioned before, when I had the boiler in the kitchen I waited about 40seconds to get hot water in the Utility room so I did expect when I moved the boiler into the Utility room the time would be the same or better because I thought my combi boiler wasn't very good.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LCV said:
Even if the boiler and cylinder is at the back of the house and the kitchen and toilet is at the front of the house?

As I mentioned before, when I had the boiler in the kitchen I waited about 40seconds to get hot water in the Utility room so I did expect when I moved the boiler into the Utility room the time would be the same or better because I thought my combi boiler wasn't very good.
Click to expand...

See post #95
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LCV said:
What is your definition of very slow in terms of time?
Click to expand...

Can't say as lot of factors we can't see pipe sizing route/ length of pipework ect

But to be honest if it's a 2000square foot house over 4 floors cylinder on ground floor
Average ceiling height 2.4m then that's really only a rise of 8m then whatever runs across floors ect
I can't see how it be that long to get to tap on 4th floor never mind longer for ground floor where cylinder is
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
Upvote 0 Downvote
That sounds like the size of my house and my ceilings are 2.4metres high. What sort of time range would you expect to get hot water to the loft based on 15mm pipes without a ring, ballpark as you don't all the factors?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Gray0689 said:
I'd not be expecting any more than 1min 30 to be honest
Do all the pipes run up a wall from bottom to top floor can you see all the pipes rising
Click to expand...

Hmm, that is a another sign that something is not right.
Sorry I don't know what you mean by can I see all the pipes rising, can you explain a bit more?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
snowhead said:
I wonder if the Sprinkler pipework gets warm when the kitchen tap is used??
Click to expand...

The sprinkler system is connected directly to the mains. I know this because the sprinkler company showed me the lever I need to turn in case of false alarms to cut off the water. But I will check to see if this happens - but you do mean the pipework under the sink as I obviously can't check pipes in the ceiling.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LCV said:
Hmm, that is a another sign that something is not right.
Sorry I don't know what you mean by can I see all the pipes rising, can you explain a bit more?
Click to expand...

You will have a hot and cold pipes and heating pipes going from the utility room up to the next floors above can you see them
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
LCV said:
Even if the boiler and cylinder is at the back of the house and the kitchen and toilet is at the front of the house?

As I mentioned before, when I had the boiler in the kitchen I waited about 40seconds to get hot water in the Utility room so I did expect when I moved the boiler into the Utility room the time would be the same or better because I thought my combi boiler wasn't very good.
Click to expand...

As I explained before it has no bearing how far the mains is from the cylinder but rather on the hot pipework coming out of the cylinder. Your water is not instantaneously heated as with a combi you now have a hot water store
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Howsie said:
Pay a professional to have a look at it! You'll be glad you did before the builder/plumber has disappeared.
Click to expand...

I was going to get a second opinion after I have met with the builder and plumber and hear what they have to say about it. Is it naïve but I am hoping the plumber after investigating will find what is wrong and fix it. From people's postings, I know something is wrong and even without the ring it shouldn't take this long to get hot water.

Are you suggesting I should get someone in first before seeing them?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Would you not feel better informed talking with your plumber and builder if you have somebody in to investigate beforehand ? You've already admitted that you know next to nothing about plumbing so what is to stop you being fobbed off by the builder/plumber if you are no more knowledgeable than when they did the work. It's up to you of course but at the moment you just seem to be going in circles and the money spent on an independent investigation might save you a headache in the long run
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
Upvote 0 Downvote
Riley said:
Would you not feel better informed talking with your plumber and builder if you have somebody in to investigate beforehand ? You've already admitted that you know next to nothing about plumbing so what is to stop you being fobbed off by the builder/plumber if you are no more knowledgeable than when they did the work. It's up to you of course but at the moment you just seem to be going in circles and the money spent on an independent investigation might save you a headache in the long run
Click to expand...

You're right. I will give Mak a call back and ask him to come round. I know he was recommended by Howsie but should I still ask to see his card to make sure he is G3 level?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0 Downvote
Gray0689 said:
How the hell did he expect to get at them zone valves if and when need. Changing muppet
Click to expand...

He was planning on never coming back. That's why.

We've all done things like that...and also been on the receiving end.

Gee, have I cursed some Plumbers Souls.

No doubt, mine will be cursed someday also.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0 Downvote
LCV said:
You're right. I will give Mak a call back and ask him to come round. I know he was recommended by Howsie but should I still ask to see his card to make sure he is G3 level?
Click to expand...

And so you should. Mak was trying to help you out over the phone without incurring expense. If he's willing and able to come then you'll be in a much better position to have an informed discussion with your builder/plumber.

It's been such a painful event, I'm in half a mind to come over myself!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
Upvote 0 Downvote
I was thinking the same Howsie bit of a day trip.
This thread is a spitting image of a ongoing job that i am trying to put right.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
This one is rolling on. The OP now knows its the little things in life that means the most.
Maybe shoulda lived with a sheet of osb over that broken window for a few weeks 🙂
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0 Downvote
Hang on a second. Despite not having a ring, you must think that 3+minutes to get hot water in the kitchen is not right when the boiler and cylinder are located on the same floor.

With all due respect, the builder's plumber came round and did a survey on the house before they quoted for the job and our requirements were discussed with them. I never said "at the moment it takes around 20seconds to get hot water in the kitchen and rest of the house but please take thousands of pounds of my money and extend that time to 3+minutes".

As for the ring, the builder said to me "...As I said it's not really required." I have this on e-mail and will use it in court if it comes to that but I am hopeful this matter can be resolved without having to go down that road.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I have not heard back from them unfortunately. I didn't heard back from Mak either (Howsie's contact) but another plumber on this forum has kindly PMed me another plumber I could reach out to so just waiting to hear from him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0 Downvote
LCV said:
Hang on a second. Despite not having a ring, you must think that 3+minutes to get hot water in the kitchen is not right when the boiler and cylinder are located on the same floor.

With all due respect, the builder's plumber came round and did a survey on the house before they quoted for the job and our requirements were discussed with them. I never said "at the moment it takes around 20seconds to get hot water in the kitchen and rest of the house but please take thousands of pounds of my money and extend that time to 3+minutes".

As for the ring, the builder said to me "...As I said it's not really required." I have this on e-mail and will use it in court if it comes to that but I am hopeful this matter can be resolved without having to go down that road.
Click to expand...
and I think you've hit the nail on the head. Due to the plumbers poor English I suspect that the builder has been answering a lot of these questions when he's not qualified or knowledgable enough to do so. Some builders are ace and know a lot but many know building and no other trade and will talk the talk in order to win work and will worry about the consequences afterwards. I think you already said earlier that the plumber did recommended a secondary circuit and obviously I realise that due to cost you didn't go for it. Makes me question why the builder is undermining his plumbers advice. Could be a costly mistakes. I would still be pushing to see your plumbers qualifications as it does set alarm bells ringing that none of the benchmark paperwork is filled out. If he's not qualified then it does add additional weight to your argument which could be useful. I'm not really backing either side here but it sounds to me like a right communication cock up
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0 Downvote
Riley said:
and I think you've hit the nail on the head. Due to the plumbers poor English I suspect that the builder has been answering a lot of these questions when he's not qualified or knowledgable enough to do so. Some builders are ace and know a lot but many know building and no other trade and will talk the talk in order to win work and will worry about the consequences afterwards. I think you already said earlier that the plumber did recommended a secondary circuit and obviously I realise that due to cost you didn't go for it. Makes me question why the builder is undermining his plumbers advice. Could be a costly mistakes. I would still be pushing to see your plumbers qualifications as it does set alarm bells ringing that none of the benchmark paperwork is filled out. If he's not qualified then it does add additional weight to your argument which could be useful. I'm not really backing either side here but it sounds to me like a right communication cock up
Click to expand...

Just for the record, the plumber never recommended a secondary circuit. This is the e-mail that the builder sent to me in July 2015.

"..speaking to plumber today I should ask wether you required hot water circulating ring. This is not necessary required as is only for comfort. I have not quoted for it and should you require would be £1150 extra. Circulating ring sometimes useful if some clients wants instant hot water. It can be switched off or it also can be put on timer. To explain in short, when you open hot water tap in shower, hot water will start running in about 20-40 seconds depending on how far are they from the cylinder and how long time ago it was used. With circulating ring on hot water would appear in few seconds."

The shower he is referring to relates to the shower in the loft en-suite. There was no indication that the taps for the rest of my house would be affected.

From his e-mail, especially as he then later wrote that "it is not really required" made it feel there was a choice and it was not a necessity.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
On any system of that size I would spec and quote for a secondary return as standard and would only agree to not fit it if the customer put it in writing to me that they don't want it. Its poor system design to not have it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0 Downvote
I always thought on the flow at tap might be part of the problem. Especially as new plumbing has been done or if it is a new kitchen tap. Could be debris in the tap airator, or check valve or isolating valve. Always check the simplest and most obvious thing first. I am sure the OP won't mind extra water flow from the tap to increase the speed of hot water delivery.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0 Downvote
Probably a crappy tap... Normally great flow on the cold but the hot comes out like jet in the centre of the spout on the ones I fit...
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Could be lots and lots of things so instead of surmising why doesn't a decent plumber offer to go and take a look and do a survey for the poster
They are in London anyone from that area
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I'm sure we are all waiting with baited breath for an answer from a decent plumber. This has gone from a pamphlet sized endeavour, to a novel, on to a saga and it's about to hit epic, cast of thousands territory!

I can't wait to actually find out what is wrong.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I do hope we get an update. We've often disappointed by the lack of feedback considering the free input we give.

I do hope the OP has this sorted and I do hope she comes back to tell us the resolution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
Upvote 0 Downvote
The op got in a plumber to take a look and the new plumber checked the flow rate at kitchen was 10 litres a min
Way way bellow what should be for unvented
He didn't check the line strainer at combination valve or what the incoming mains was
But was given a quote for a secondary return to be put in
At £22k
So to say they are no more forward than last time
If it gets sorted I'll let everyone now

And if there is any real plumbers about London let me know
 
Upvote 0 Downvote

Official Sponsors of Plumbers Talk

Similar plumbing topics

C
  • Question Question
Why do I have no hot water? Please help
Replies
3
Views
2K
Bathroom Advice
Admin
Admin
R
Purple water from hot feeds
Replies
0
Views
161
Bathroom Advice
roadhousezamora
R
M
  • Question Question
Hot water tap terrible flow
Replies
1
Views
855
Bathroom Advice
SimonG
SimonG
O
Hot water taking ages to come through
Replies
2
Views
468
Boiler Advice Forum
Sparkgap
Sparkgap
R
  • Question Question
Limited hot water in winter
Replies
8
Views
855
UK Plumbers Forums
Rincewindwiz
R
D
  • Question Question
Burning smell from hot water
Replies
4
Views
2K
Bathroom Advice
Chuck
C
J
  • Question Question
Bathroom hot water sink tap. Low flow
Replies
1
Views
838
Bathroom Advice
fowlerboi
F
O
No Hot Water
Replies
3
Views
534
Boiler Advice Forum
ShaunCorbs
ShaunCorbs
S
Tado? UFH 5 Zones/Rads Upstairs/Hot Water
Replies
0
Views
110
Water Underfloor Heating Advice
SteveBall
S
N
Pumping Over Question
Replies
2
Views
276
UK Plumbers Forums
needinelp
N
H
PROBLEM WITH HOT WATER - PLEASE HELP
Replies
2
Views
515
UK Plumbers Forums
hotwaterproblems
H
P
  • Question Question
Hot water issue which has me baffled
Replies
7
Views
2K
Bathroom Advice
Basher
B
tranceporter
  • Question Question
Looking for combi boiler advice
Replies
0
Views
147
DIY Plumbing Advice
tranceporter
tranceporter
L
  • Question Question
Possible airlock
Replies
2
Views
777
DIY Plumbing Advice
Lightup
L
F
  • Question Question
Hot water decreases flow after 5 minutes (electrical)
Replies
6
Views
1K
Bathroom Advice
Chuck
C
P
Worcester bosch 34 cdi , pump not activating..not sure what it could be, E9 error, not hot water
Replies
3
Views
212
Boiler Advice Forum
Plumbing Learner
P
C
New CH & HW pipe work for oil boiler
Replies
0
Views
154
Oil and Solid Fuel Forum
Cash4crash
C
O
  • Question Question
No hot water in bathroom.
Replies
9
Views
1K
DIY Plumbing Advice
Old UKPF 133295
O
D
  • Question Question
Output from new thermostatic valve locks on hot and no warm water
Replies
5
Views
2K
Bathroom Advice
diy_massacre
D
B
  • Question Question
What happened to stop valve and hot water?
Replies
7
Views
2K
UK Plumbers Forums
BobbyJoe
B
L
  • Question Question
Mains supply to mixer tap is pushing cold water to hot water pipe
Replies
5
Views
2K
UK Plumbers Forums
Gasinspect
G
M
Hot water demand effect on central heating for Combi boiler
Replies
3
Views
1K
Boiler Advice Forum
John.g
J
M
Radiators getting warm when boiler is on over run
Replies
2
Views
263
Gas Engineers Forum
mike71
M
D
  • Question Question
DHW supply from Vaillant turbomax 828e
Replies
4
Views
745
UK Plumbers Forums
John.g
J
J
  • Question Question
No hot water in some parts of house
Replies
1
Views
866
UK Plumbers Forums
Deleted member 120897
D

We recommend City Plumbing Supplies, BES, and Plumbing Superstore for all plumbing supplies.

Featured Content

Sponsors

Electric Underfloor Heating The Wetroom Store Heating 2 Go Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Official UK Plumbers Forums Facebook Page Gas Talk Group | Gas Safe Register Plumber Workwear Specialist

Featured Plumbing Threads

Thread statistics

Created
LCV,
Last reply from
rpm,
Replies
250
Views
31,450
VividPromotion Workwear
Top Bottom
Back