planning route for new CH system and advice on Hep2o pipes

[happyflyer]

Let's not forget plastic gas mains 🙂 and even oil 🙂

As I said best out of site, out of mind and plastic gas main yes we are talking rough plumbers

 

[on31ll]

Wellill have a loon for some work ! Seen a few boiler rooms in plastic except for where copper needs to be used ! I just think you have a personal mission to ban plastic ! Yes people fudge up using plastic but they also make the same mess in copper and compression fittings ! I dont see the problem ! I know a plasterer that to be honest is a decent plumber would happily let him install a CWS or somthing other hand i know a plumber who is also gas safe that i wouldnt let solder up his own gas run or change a tap un supervised ! Its the world we live in that these parts are avalible and people do DIY. But it cant be blamed soley on plastic ! Not having a go.


Btw has is plastic gas mains mean rpugh plumbers ? All new gas mains are plastic ! Look right across the uk gas network !

 

[dancinplumba]

As I said best out of site, out of mind and plastic gas main yes we are talking rough plumbers

Out of SIGHT please, Never ever out of mind 🙂

 

[pana37]

Think I know where I was going wrong I think I wasn't cleaning rubbing the new copper joints. Just seen this YouTube video given me some confidence [video=youtube;WpHQ0WCDlFI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpHQ0WCDlFI[/video]

 

[pana37]

My original plan was to plumb 2 possibly 3 of the bedrooms from underneath with making holes and feeding plastic pipes through. You guys have now put me off. Now can I run copper pipes from underneath as a lot of the ceiling is going be be removed on the grd floor.

 

[supper plumb]

Id run it in plastic any day over copper 100% cleaner faster easier and no one has even thought about mentioning about flux corrosion if using copper and solder joints?? need to flush because of crap in the pipe ????? i think that 1 point for me there:yes:
When we was diy sos big build we used plastic for 99% of the plumping had NO probs had a British gas guy come and help out run a New gas line (copper) and guess what had a leak

 

[Killy Bing]

Id run it in plastic any day over copper 100% cleaner faster easier and no one has even thought about mentioning about flux corrosion if using copper and solder joints?? need to flush because of crap in the pipe ????? i think that 1 point for me there:yes:
When we was diy sos big build we used plastic for 99% of the plumping had NO probs had a British gas guy come and help out run a New gas line (copper) and guess what had a leak

How long have you been plumbing Supper?

 

[supper plumb]

on and off about 2 years we do alot of bathrooms and kitchen soo it helps to know the basics rather then sub it out do it your self im looking into getting into college.
if i can to learn more and get more of a insight into plumbing and gas I like plasic because its clean fast and if done right it looks good well i like it
only trade we sub is gas and sparks

we try and renew all plumbing the room as its better for us to work on new pipe work and rout it how we want it and where we want it

 

[Killy Bing]

ahh ok plastics have risks.
more risk of rodents chewing through to get to the water.
if not cliped properly then under the expansion and movement as they heat up and cool down they can rub a hole over a period of time.
I personally dont trust the joints so i only use it from point a to point b over a long run. just two connections at either end.

Regarding the gas leak.
Gases have a far smaller structure than liquids meaning that a leak would show up with air or gas but not with liquids.

Do you pressure test your pipework? you will quickly find this.

Plastics do have their place in modern pumbing however i would not use it on heating unless i have too.
Flushing the system isnt the worst thing in the world it's just part of heating installs in my view.

in the past 3 years ive been to more leaks on plastics than copper.
and with the copper its either 15+ years old or poorly fitted in the first place.
Plastics have generally been very well fitted but has leaked regardless.

as you gain more experiance you will find it similler to this.

Good luck !

 

[Best]

Id run it in plastic any day over copper 100% cleaner faster easier and no one has even thought about mentioning about flux corrosion if using copper and solder joints?? need to flush because of crap in the pipe ????? i think that 1 point for me there:yes:
When we was diy sos big build we used plastic for 99% of the plumping had NO probs had a British gas guy come and help out run a New gas line (copper) and guess what had a leak

Flux is not a problem if a decent flux is used. Personally I prefer grease based fluxes - not really very corrosive at all & you still have to flush a heating system anyhow & clean excess flux on outside pipes soon after soldering. Copper is by far the best for standard heating systems.
I have 3 samples of plastic pipe that plumbers have installed & they burst. One of them was non barrier pipe on a mains pipe in a kitchen that froze & burst. The other two are barrier pipe that ballooned, split etc, when on different heating systems that had both overheated. But it is the plastic fittings with hot heating water in them that is a worry. And, remember this - if a soldered fitting is done right, it is for life, but a plastic push fit, if they push off, which they do & for various reasons, will mean full bore, full flow major flooding. If I was to ever accept plastic pipe/ fittings, it would be in a basement where no damage could occur. And I haven't mentioned rodents!

 

[happyflyer]

ahh ok plastics have risks.
more risk of rodents chewing through to get to the water.
if not cliped properly then under the expansion and movement as they heat up and cool down they can rub a hole over a period of time.
I personally dont trust the joints so i only use it from point a to point b over a long run. just two connections at either end.

Regarding the gas leak.
Gases have a far smaller structure than liquids meaning that a leak would show up with air or gas but not with liquids.

Do you pressure test your pipework? you will quickly find this.

Plastics do have their place in modern plumbing however i would not use it on heating unless i have too.
Flushing the system isnt the worst thing in the world it's just part of heating installs in my view.

in the past 3 years ive been to more leaks on plastics than copper.
and with the copper its either 15+ years old or poorly fitted in the first place.
Plastics have generally been very well fitted but has leaked regardless.

as you gain more experiance you will find it similler to this.

Good luck !

1King55,

I agree with everything you say here, you just missed one thing, it looks a bugger when you lift the floor board or open the door, it is impossible to make look good, if you all don't mind this is my main beef. If you were brought up as a fully trained plumber in the 60's as I was then you will know appearance was number one, it had to be water tight, plumb, straight, bend following each other, falling or rising the right way,clipped neatly, plastic can never fit that bill and never will. As you say it has its place, it has on an only one advantage I would consider is a good point, when you break into it you don't need to worry about water dripping down the pipe, with copper end feed it's a pain. I think plastic will always fail were it has not been fitted correctly and you cannot blame it for that, time alone will tell 1king55 I don't have much of that left to hang about and find out, I will leave it to you lads, but IMO plastic has not help you in anyway in fact I think it will damage your ability to call yourself plumber in the sense that I was when I was young only a plumber could do plumbing that has now change forever, I could teach my 11 year old granddaughter how to put an outside tap on in an hour does that mean she got a trade.

I have now asked you all when was plastic first used for domestic central heating and no one has come up with an answer maybe you all think that the 15 mm and 10 mm plastic you now see Guest etc is the first well you be wrong it's been on the market before and die a death, I used it in the late 60's, when Yorkshire first brought out there mini bore manifold, they were painted in bright blue and they made to 4 port brass mini manifold, a company call SYR also brought over from Sweden GEECOL a steel pipe 6 mm and 10 mm in Europe they didn't lift floor board to installed heating the routed two groove in the floor and laid the pipe in the groove and then tacked is piece of sheet metal off a roll to cover it about 2" wide, they designed there system on a very high temp drop F/R as high as 50 C they sealed all their systems and ran their boilers up to 100 C so you had 100 C flow and about 50 C they used SYR radiators convectors coils on the back with hardly any water in them , the whole 8 rad system had no more than a few gallons of water in them. Turn the boiler on and you were up to temperature in mins, I fitted a few but the convectors were very noisy ticking like a clock, they crimped the coils on the back of the convectors instead of tack welding, they system die a death, and so to the then plastic Impalyene, so you see you plastic chaps its all been done before, most of you were born, but not all of you.

Cheers 1King55

 

[Killy Bing]

I fully agree with this.

when i look under a sink and see it i wince.
Ive only used it on my bosses jobs for runs in screed.
connection at either end gong straight to copper as we avoid any connections in the floor.

If its less than 3 metres i just bend the copper to suit then protect it.

I admit that quite alot of the art has been lost.

 

[markfxy]

who gives a t oss what it looks like when under floor boards as long as it works I'd go with plastic with drilled joists everytime, happyflyer since when has a gshp been a derivative of plastic your talking nonsense!

 

[dancinplumba]

1King55,

I agree with everything you say here, you just missed one thing, it looks a bugger when you lift the floor board or open the door, it is impossible to make look good, if you all don't mind this is my main beef. If you were brought up as a fully trained plumber in the 60's as I was then you will know appearance was number one, it had to be water tight, plumb, straight, bend following each other, falling or rising the right way,clipped neatly, plastic can never fit that bill and never will. As you say it has its place, it has on an only one advantage I would consider is a good point, when you break into it you don't need to worry about water dripping down the pipe, with copper end feed it's a pain. I think plastic will always fail were it has not been fitted correctly and you cannot blame it for that, time alone will tell 1king55 I don't have much of that left to hang about and find out, I will leave it to you lads, but IMO plastic has not help you in anyway in fact I think it will damage your ability to call yourself plumber in the sense that I was when I was young only a plumber could do plumbing that has now change forever, I could teach my 11 year old granddaughter how to put an outside tap on in an hour does that mean she got a trade.

I have now asked you all when was plastic first used for domestic central heating and no one has come up with an answer maybe you all think that the 15 mm and 10 mm plastic you now see Guest etc is the first well you be wrong it's been on the market before and die a death, I used it in the late 60's, when Yorkshire first brought out there mini bore manifold, they were painted in bright blue and they made to 4 port brass mini manifold, a company call SYR also brought over from Sweden GEECOL a steel pipe 6 mm and 10 mm in Europe they didn't lift floor board to installed heating the routed two groove in the floor and laid the pipe in the groove and then tacked is piece of sheet metal off a roll to cover it about 2" wide, they designed there system on a very high temp drop F/R as high as 50 C they sealed all their systems and ran their boilers up to 100 C so you had 100 C flow and about 50 C they used SYR radiators convectors coils on the back with hardly any water in them , the whole 8 rad system had no more than a few gallons of water in them. Turn the boiler on and you were up to temperature in mins, I fitted a few but the convectors were very noisy ticking like a clock, they crimped the coils on the back of the convectors instead of tack welding, they system die a death, and so to the then plastic Impalyene, so you see you plastic chaps its all been done before, most of you were born, but not all of you.

Cheers 1King55

I did ! Clearly you were to busy listening to your own voice to notice 🙂

 

[AWheating]

ive done hundreds of houses in plastic, its fine but it should not be on show imo. you should always use copper for fixtures, tails etc...... Its stronger, it does not move under pressure changes and its adaptable for all situations. nothing worse than looking under a kitchen sink or bath and seeing plasitc flopping about.

you want a min 600mm copper tail at each fixture (except hidden drops to rads), 3m of copper off your boiler F AND R connections.

 

[Killy Bing]

ive done hundreds of houses in plastic, its fine but it should not be on show imo. you should always use copper for fixtures, tails etc...... Its stronger, it does not move under pressure changes and its adaptable for all situations. nothing worse than looking under a kitchen sink or bath and seeing plasitc flopping about.

you want a min 600mm copper tail at each fixture (except hidden drops to rads), 3m of copper off your boiler connections.

Thats a more realistic use!

still i like my copper 😀

 

[happyflyer]

I am saying no more about it for fear of contraception, you fit what you want where you want, on top of or underneath where you want, I know what looks good and I don't need to go the Spec-savers....:1eye:

 

[tamz]

Buy all the tools you can get. Tools are good but only if they cost £4-500 a whack. They give you a buzz buying them.
Then straight through everything with your new tools because they can.
Direct is best and cheaper:lol: