PRV exits into a tundish T'd off condensate pipe! OK?

[oldandworried]

Hi, I have had a full CH system installed in my bungalow Baxi Duo-tec Combi 28HE + 7 rads in a day and am concerned that some corners have been cut.
The boiler sits in a cupboard in the centre of the bungalow. A ll pipework runs up to it from under the floor and to my mind is the high point in the system. I asked whether Automatic Air Vent Kit 720004701 would be fitted as recommended by Baxi and was told it was built into the boiler.
The PRV is connected directly into a plastic tundish which is immediately T'd with the condensate pipe. This then runs for some 6m under the floor utilising what looks like 22mm Hep2o pipe. Baxi says that runs over 3m should use 32mm waste pipe.
I don't know if the system was flushed. I'm fairly certain that the drain valve on the kitchen rad was not used. Is it possibble to flush the system using the condensate pipe?
The heating and hot water work as expected but the boiler "roars" to my ears (certainly compared to Viessmann and Worcester boilers I have heard) , but am told I won't hear it when I put a door on the cupboard. Also when you fire up the boiler from cold there is a loud whistle which does go away after 10/15 minutes.
Am I unnecessarily concerned? I have photos but don't think I am allowed to attach them. Any guidance would be appreciated.

 

[plumben]

If you post up your location in the I'm looking for area on this forum
[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/"]I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas Engineer[/DLMURL]
I'm sure one of the gsr members would be happy to come check the boiler over for you to put your mind at ease or
Correct any faults they find

 

[IDCHAPPY]

It doesn't sound too bad to me, boiler have Automatic air vents in them to rid them of any air.
Baxi's (as i'm led to believe) aren't the quietest of boilers.
You say the hot water and heating are working fine so?

 

[IDCHAPPY]

I'm guessing the condense runs in 21.5mm overflow pipe like it should, I've never fitted a baxi so i can't comment on the rising to 32mm after 3M... seems a bit excessive though, if it was running outside then yeah.
To fling in a whole system in a day is cutting it fine, i certainly couldn't do it with our team but some teams can.

 

[Rickster123]

I wanna see pictures! Croppie!! Please make the pictures appear!

 

[Dotty]

Nuffink I can do monkey boy!

Oldandworried, please upload your photos to photobucket and link to them there.

 

[oldandworried]

Nuffink I can do monkey boy!

Oldandworried, please upload your photos to photobucket and link to them there.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=A04E9DE918A219DC!20913&authkey=!ADIAyRBEOowCUgQ&ithint=folder,

There should be 4 photos here, but as I said old and PC (il)literate!

Thanks to all those trying to help

 

[Dotty]

No. I don't think you're being unnecessarily concerned.

Call gassafe and request a free inspection. I'd be interested in what else they pick up.

 

[Rickster123]

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=A04E9DE918A219DC!20913&authkey=!ADIAyRBEOowCUgQ&ithint=folder,

There should be 4 photos here, but as I said old and PC (il)literate!

Thanks to all those trying to help

No don't like that at all. Get them back in mate. And let's see a pic of the flue run please? I'm assuming it's a vertical run?

 

[stevetheplumber]

prv has to be mettalic usually copperand the condense should be clipped im not sure what baxi have to say but if they do say 3 m max then it should be upsized

 

[stevetheplumber]

anyone betting the flue will be un supported in the loft

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Looks like that condense was thrown in at the last minute!!

 

[lame plumber]

combi and seven rads in a day, takes me at least 2 to do a combi swap and system flush, but I'm old and fussy 🙂 btw get gas safe to inspect as mentioned

 

[plumben]

That condensate is comical
Love the stack of brick

 

[oldandworried]

No don't like that at all. Get them back in mate. And let's see a pic of the flue run please? I'm assuming it's a vertical run?

Well nearly vertical, it's got a bit of a lean on it. I presume it saved the cost of a couple of elbows. I'll post some pics tomorrow. I will also speak to Gassafe. The firm advertised themselves as Baxi Partners, which I assumed meant they had an enhanced level of expertise with the brand. Maybe it just means they sell a lot of their boilers.
Again a big thank you to all who have tried to help.

 

[oldandworried]

Well nearly vertical! I'll get a pic tomorrow, call Gassafe and keep you all updated.
Once again thank you all for your input and advice. I don't feel quite so alone now.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

:lol: man, that condense is novel... JG all the way...😀

 

[kris]

Thats just dog awful pipework and surely cannot be by a gas engineer and more a chance your mitt diyer , oldandworried is the company in question a gassafe registered business , ? id be getting a 3rd party in to inspect everything they did to make sure its not dangerous and id do this straight away, good luck fella,

 

[goz666]

Shoddy, I would check the commissioning sheet and see if it's been filled in and signed.

 

[Littlered]

Looks to me likes council upgrade. Fitters probably paid 400 and told finish it in a day.
2 plumbers and a lad. understanable.
this would take me and my lad 3/4 days I reckon but I have also previous experience of council work and their unrealistic demands.
and the tenants are worse than millionaires

 

[goz666]

Looks to me likes council upgrade. Fitters probably paid 400 and told finish it in a day.
2 plumbers and a lad. understanable.
this would take me and my lad 3/4 days I reckon but I have also previous experience of council work and their unrealistic demands.
and the tenants are worse than millionaires

All the council upgrades I've ever seen have complied with the regs otherwise they would be deemed unsafe. Most councils or HA's send an inspector to check the work, even down to checking the fuse rating is correct, this just looks like a set of dollopers who have chucked it in as quick as they can.

 

[Littlered]

I agree actually goz666, I was once told to return as I hadn't removed a clip from the cylinder cupboard!
but, under floors etc was very very rare to be checked.

Still, i dont even think ha's would let that condense pipe passed them!

 

[dave1]

Can someone share the pics? It's asking me to sign into a Microsoft account.?

 

[E4gas]

Here Dave

 

[dave1]

Thanks

 

[oldandworried]

Once again thanks to all who have taken an interest. Here's the flue for those who asked.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=A04E9DE918A219DC!21458&authkey=!AOrb4xf1MoQi0gw&ithint=folder,

I wonder whether the white flue extension should be showing above the roof (yes I know it's a bit rough but it has since been re-tiled)

Yes this is the work of a qualified Gas safe engineer ID and number checked with photo on the register and no the commissioning sheet (Benchmark?) has not been fully completed.

He is a young man and he says he wants me to be happy with the installation so I will give him a second chance to put things right before going to Gas Safe.

As a layman there appear to be four levels of competence:

1) Best practice as espoused by your members

2) Manufactures recommendations being the corporate nod to best practice

3) Building regulations widely drawn and open to interpretation but differs to manufacturers regulations

4) Manufacturers minimum standards which vary from company to company

I think the industry still has some way to go to impose a minimum professional standard for at present the alternatives for the average customer are pick a contractor with references /feedback or employ a seperate specifier to select a contractor and then audit his work but at what cost?

Sorry rant over in the end I suppose you just can't legislate for character.

Once again thanks to all who took an interest.

 

[CXR100]

flue should also have more clips supporting it

 

[PhoenixServices]

The white of the flue should not be seen outside. Not sure about baxi flues, but shouldn't there be some self tapping screws holding it together.

 

[R.Oak]

I havn't read all the comments so this may have been said but imo a flush is a days work on its own. Combi and rads is possible in a day with a two or three people, but to flush, install combi and replace 7 radiators in one day is far too quick and i would have concerns about the workmanship

 

[thompsonbrown]

List of faults I can see.
1 condence and blow off teed in
2 john guest fittings cannot cope with ph of condence water
3 condence line pipe size needs upgrading due to length of run
4 no clips fitted on condence line
5 no clips fitted on boiler pipe-work
6 electrical earth bonding needed at boiler
7 flue needs more supports
8 no clearance of combustable material or fire cover plates fitted on ceiling or roof
9 flue terminal looks less than 500mm from chimney in pics
I know some of my pick ups might be petty but boiler and 7 rads installed in a day needs to be picked up/ god knows how much it cost or what the rest of the job looks like. anyone see anythink ive missed?

 

[bert large]

The flange on the vertical flue is not located over the lead slate upstand, one of the the extensions needs shortening or else rain will get inside given the right/wrong weather conditions.
In my experience any rain entering here will run straight down the outside of the flue & probably end up getting into the boiler & goosing the fan or PCB.

 

[dsmart]

That condensate run though !!

 

[Tomlad]

I know it's not supposed to be done but I'd put money on John guest fittings being able to handle acidic water.

That condensate run is brilliant though.

 

[Scott_D]

I'm pretty sure hep say their pipe can take condensate

 

[firemant]

The white of the flue should not be seen outside. Not sure about baxi flues, but shouldn't there be some self tapping screws holding it together.

Baxi multi fit flues do not nee screws.
I would defo be interested in cleanliness of water

 

[mikeygas]

I think the customer has got what he paid for, and should have done more research and got more quotes for comparison.

 

[Tomlad]

I think the customer has got what he paid for, and should have done more research and got more quotes for comparison.

Good point I agree

 

[oz-plumber]

A little harsh on the customer...What is he to know.

He obviously has concerns about the installation, but it is not his fault.

He comes on this forum and wants to ask a few questions regarding the installation....There's no problem with that.

People have given their advice and recommendations - which is what he asked for.

As for turning the situation on the customer and blaming the customer for not doing enough research is - well below the belt.

We don't know the customers situation. He might be a complete twit, but the plumber who did the installation is a complete f-wit.

All sorts of information and help is given out to people who come on this site - mostly to people who want to do work themselves.

Maybe it's time to start a reversal.

Fobbing off DIY'ers and helping and assisting people that have had sub-standard work done by Plumbers.

 

[jtsplumbing]

The flange on the vertical flue is not located over the lead slate upstand, one of the the extensions needs shortening or else rain will get inside given the right/wrong weather conditions.
In my experience any rain entering here will run straight down the outside of the flue & probably end up getting into the boiler & goosing the fan or PCB.

See what your saying about the slate, but its one of those rubbish rubber collar ones, personally I only use lead ones know they are a bit pricey, but get a 100% better seal, & lays better on tiles.

 

[antdad]

Good point I agree

What did he pay?

 

[jtsplumbing]

Is this another install on the Government scheme, ?? we have all seen the rubbish that was fitted on other government jobs, fitters had to do around 4 installs a week to make it pay, most were bad installs but nothing ever got done about it,

 

[Tomlad]

Is this another install on the Government scheme, ?? we have all seen the rubbish that was fitted on other government jobs, fitters had to do around 4 installs a week to make it pay, most were bad installs but nothing ever got done about it,

The eco jobs have to be fitted to a high quality. Not only because that's how it needs to be but even for funding providers to pay out all work is photographed and if it's not right they won't pay.

 

[jtsplumbing]

The eco jobs have to be fitted to a high quality. Not only because that's how it needs to be but even for funding providers to pay out all work is photographed and if it's not right they won't pay.

Well you must be looking at different installs ! I would say that the majority of these jobs I have come across have been of poor standard, and if has you claim , they have all been photographed , why have the ones I have seen , and I think others on here, never been rectified ??

 

[waddmiester]

New to the forum and a bit late on this one but:-
I can't believe the quality of the install, I would be livid if that was the quality of work in my own home.
As for some of the ECO work, I've seen quite a few installations that were simply not up to scratch and clearly rushed.
A combi combi swap can be done reasonably quickly and standards still maintained, however, a proper system flush and a swap with some additional work obviously takes a little longer.
when you are pressed for time quality can be difficult to maintain.