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JTS the plumber who opened up the valve, told me that if the smell did not go away that the radiator would need to be ripped out, the system drained and then the dry wall person would have to come in and patch everything back up.
This one has two pipes. I think the pipe coming in is on the left, where the shut off valve is. And the pipe on the right where the pics above have the close up with the bleeder valve is the one going out.
If a plumber shut off the valve and bled that rad, could they take it out without having to drain the system? I'm not sure how else you could take it out without spilling that black water everywhere when it comes off.
The smell is not of something dead, but rather like a fume or burning smell. Something like paint or coating off gassing.
One of the things I researched was that the coating from the factory can off gas. One woman had this happen. But she had a cast iron rad, not cast iron base board rad that I have.
A friend recommended that I contact the Fire Department as they have equipment that can test the air and identify the smell. I am thinking of doing this next. As at least this would identify what that fume is.
JTS I don't believe it's a leak. With that black water running through the system. Even the smallest leak would have shown by now. Also please recall that when the heat is off, no smell at all. If it was leaking, there would be a smell even with the heat off. This smell comes and goes with the heat. And increases in intensity proportionate to the heat in the rad.
If it was rodents, it would smell like something dead and rotting.
As you noted there are a lot of layers of paint. That seems more related than rodents or a leak at this point.
This one has two pipes. I think the pipe coming in is on the left, where the shut off valve is. And the pipe on the right where the pics above have the close up with the bleeder valve is the one going out.
If a plumber shut off the valve and bled that rad, could they take it out without having to drain the system? I'm not sure how else you could take it out without spilling that black water everywhere when it comes off.
The smell is not of something dead, but rather like a fume or burning smell. Something like paint or coating off gassing.
One of the things I researched was that the coating from the factory can off gas. One woman had this happen. But she had a cast iron rad, not cast iron base board rad that I have.
A friend recommended that I contact the Fire Department as they have equipment that can test the air and identify the smell. I am thinking of doing this next. As at least this would identify what that fume is.
JTS I don't believe it's a leak. With that black water running through the system. Even the smallest leak would have shown by now. Also please recall that when the heat is off, no smell at all. If it was leaking, there would be a smell even with the heat off. This smell comes and goes with the heat. And increases in intensity proportionate to the heat in the rad.
If it was rodents, it would smell like something dead and rotting.
As you noted there are a lot of layers of paint. That seems more related than rodents or a leak at this point.
John, B4 anything else it is important that the cover panel is removed, without doing that your not going to find the reason for the smell, I don't know how they install systems in the US, but if that was in the UK it would have service valves at each end, just because you can-not see signs of a leak doesn't mean there isn't one, REMOVE THE PANEL !!! until you do your only guessing at what is going on, if as you state the water in the system is black ! you need to get the heating system cleaned, Then a anti- corrosive added to the heating water as we do in the UK, Seems to me what you need is some English Plumbers in the US the sort out your systems.
a lot of their systems work slightly different to ours if you watch any US building programmes. A few American homes have radiators, but these are nearly always of the old-fashioned steam variety and not the newer hot water ones. American steam radiators are typically part of legacy systems in buildings constructed before 1940.
JTS there are no service valves on the either sides of this rad. There is a shut off valve on the left side. There is only a pipe coming out on the right. And bleeder valve also on the right.
I reside in Canada not the US.
To Gasmk1. This is hot water rad. Not steam. Look at the pics above. It is a cast iron base board rad. Built in the 50's.
Will have to follow up with my building to get the panel off. As previously stated. The heating guy who opened and got my rad working was very clear that they would need to drain the entire system and then rip out the rad. Dry wall person to follow in order to fix it all up. That is a lot of work and money.
All else aside not sure what other option I may have. I am trying to get in contact with fire department for them to come by and check the air quality and determine where the smell is coming from.
Thank you everyone, for your help and feedback. It is much appreciated.
I reside in Canada not the US.
To Gasmk1. This is hot water rad. Not steam. Look at the pics above. It is a cast iron base board rad. Built in the 50's.
Will have to follow up with my building to get the panel off. As previously stated. The heating guy who opened and got my rad working was very clear that they would need to drain the entire system and then rip out the rad. Dry wall person to follow in order to fix it all up. That is a lot of work and money.
All else aside not sure what other option I may have. I am trying to get in contact with fire department for them to come by and check the air quality and determine where the smell is coming from.
Thank you everyone, for your help and feedback. It is much appreciated.
Mate I don't know why he doesn't claim on house insurance, John wants the problem sorted But by the sounds he has no money to do it looking at the photos the beading was put on as a after thought and I keep telling him that he needs to remove the metal case in order to see what is going on behind it and just to do that he does not need to drain the system
I thought the same but he is reluctant think he thinks he might open a can of worms so to speak
Gentlemen, the reason I am reluctant to open up a job that may cost a few grand. Is because the smell has been getting less and less in intensity. This means that whatever is causing it. Is very slowly starting to wane. Why would I spend a few thousand dollars, rip something open. If it is the paint. And we know it's the paint, where if it was rodents as JTS pointed out. But never once confirmed the smell despite my asking several times. I had to get that from another source. If it was rodents. It would smell like a dead rotting thing. Which it does not.
If it was a leak. However small as JTS has also mentioned. It would show by now. In the carpet. Along some point near or under the rad.
There are no leaks. No stains. Smell disappears when the heat to the rad drops. A leak would produce a smell even with heat off. Which is not the case here.
I used an air compressor and blew out the silver foil and the black paper water barrier. This paper JTS did confirm and name as a water barrier. You guys don't think I would have noticed a mouse nest or mouse carcass when I was blowing out dust, foil and black paper?
I would have seen that as I spent many hours on this. It took many hours to get all that foil and black paper out.
Since that time. Since I emptied it out, the smell has been dropping steadily. At each relative temperature. At a low temp just after I blew it out. It dropped in smell.
When it went to -13 celcius, smell concentration jumped back up. But then within 4-5 days dropped dramatically. To where it is now. Which is a very mild smell. Almost not noticeable.
In the last 2.5 months. This is the best it has been.
The smell is not gone. But the fact that it is waning is a good indicator that I just need to let it burn off some more.
Why would I spend a large sum of money. Rip out a rad. Likely have to sand blast it to get rid of the coating that is off gassing. Put it back in. Hire a dry wall guy. This is a lot work and effort.
Why do all of this. When I can just leave it as it is, and let the heat slowly burn it off. Which is exactly what it has been doing.
The route you guys are advising is costly.
The route I am taking. Costs nothing. And will yield the same result.
There is no logical reason to rip something out and jump through all kinds of hoops when leaving it alone and waiting while it slowly but surely burns through the remaining scent is a cost free and viable option.
If the smell was not decreasing. Then the logical thing would be to follow the steps you gentlemen have recommended.
But thankfully it is waning. Very slowly. But consistently. If it spills into next winter and I have to crash on the sofa for another month of or so. That is not the end of the world.
Tinkering with a 70 year old radiator with pipework. And pretending that ripping it out carries no risk of creating other problems, as often happens when you tamper with old things. Well it is one thing to write about it and another to have to be in my shoes and deal with the consequences.
My choice, carries no consequences. No cost. Just some inconvenience on my part having to sleep on my sofa in the living room until the heat burns off the last 1-2% of what is left of that smell.
Hence my reluctance.
But I thank you all the same. As those are the correct steps to take if the smell was not disappearing or lessening. I would then have no choice but to take the steps recommended. Here there are signs of the smell slowly waning. Which tells me that I just need to be patient and let it take its course.
If it was a leak. However small as JTS has also mentioned. It would show by now. In the carpet. Along some point near or under the rad.
There are no leaks. No stains. Smell disappears when the heat to the rad drops. A leak would produce a smell even with heat off. Which is not the case here.
I used an air compressor and blew out the silver foil and the black paper water barrier. This paper JTS did confirm and name as a water barrier. You guys don't think I would have noticed a mouse nest or mouse carcass when I was blowing out dust, foil and black paper?
I would have seen that as I spent many hours on this. It took many hours to get all that foil and black paper out.
Since that time. Since I emptied it out, the smell has been dropping steadily. At each relative temperature. At a low temp just after I blew it out. It dropped in smell.
When it went to -13 celcius, smell concentration jumped back up. But then within 4-5 days dropped dramatically. To where it is now. Which is a very mild smell. Almost not noticeable.
In the last 2.5 months. This is the best it has been.
The smell is not gone. But the fact that it is waning is a good indicator that I just need to let it burn off some more.
Why would I spend a large sum of money. Rip out a rad. Likely have to sand blast it to get rid of the coating that is off gassing. Put it back in. Hire a dry wall guy. This is a lot work and effort.
Why do all of this. When I can just leave it as it is, and let the heat slowly burn it off. Which is exactly what it has been doing.
The route you guys are advising is costly.
The route I am taking. Costs nothing. And will yield the same result.
There is no logical reason to rip something out and jump through all kinds of hoops when leaving it alone and waiting while it slowly but surely burns through the remaining scent is a cost free and viable option.
If the smell was not decreasing. Then the logical thing would be to follow the steps you gentlemen have recommended.
But thankfully it is waning. Very slowly. But consistently. If it spills into next winter and I have to crash on the sofa for another month of or so. That is not the end of the world.
Tinkering with a 70 year old radiator with pipework. And pretending that ripping it out carries no risk of creating other problems, as often happens when you tamper with old things. Well it is one thing to write about it and another to have to be in my shoes and deal with the consequences.
My choice, carries no consequences. No cost. Just some inconvenience on my part having to sleep on my sofa in the living room until the heat burns off the last 1-2% of what is left of that smell.
Hence my reluctance.
But I thank you all the same. As those are the correct steps to take if the smell was not disappearing or lessening. I would then have no choice but to take the steps recommended. Here there are signs of the smell slowly waning. Which tells me that I just need to be patient and let it take its course.
i pointed out to you that if it was rodents then the smell would diminish over a short period, poste dsomething to this effect.
Gasmk1 I recall your post and that you mentioned it is not cost effective. I agree with that.
Either way, this is not a dead rodent smell. The smell would be consistent with something that died and is being burned or heated.
This smell is more like a fume as I have said numerous times. It is very likely that the people who were there prior to me. Painted the rad and never turned it on. As that is how I got it. In a off state.
It's been off for over 10 years. JTS did correctly observe that there are multiple layers of paint. That is what I smell. A paint fume. Something off gassing. Not rodents or dead flesh.
The important or key point is that it has been decreasing since I used the compressed air and blew out everything including the silver foil and black water barrier. Although I can't say for sure why those materials would produce any smell at all. The observable sequence is that the concentration of that smell dropped from 70-80%, down to like 20-30%. And has dropped more and more.
To my understanding. However slowly. The smell is staring to get weaker and weaker. Given that, I would not want to do what JTS keeps telling me to do regarding the panel. I would only do that work if the smell was not decreasing. Where that would be the only option at that point. But so far, thank God, the smell is getting less. Hopefully with some patience and luck it will disappear for good. If not by the end of this season due to insufficient heat. Then next winter when the -30 degrees celcius will come back and the rad can burn through whatever remains.
Again my sincere thanks to everyone who has taken the time to write and give advice. I made this decision based on observable facts. If it were otherwise, I would act on the advice given here. So it is much appreciated gentlemen. All the best.
Either way, this is not a dead rodent smell. The smell would be consistent with something that died and is being burned or heated.
This smell is more like a fume as I have said numerous times. It is very likely that the people who were there prior to me. Painted the rad and never turned it on. As that is how I got it. In a off state.
It's been off for over 10 years. JTS did correctly observe that there are multiple layers of paint. That is what I smell. A paint fume. Something off gassing. Not rodents or dead flesh.
The important or key point is that it has been decreasing since I used the compressed air and blew out everything including the silver foil and black water barrier. Although I can't say for sure why those materials would produce any smell at all. The observable sequence is that the concentration of that smell dropped from 70-80%, down to like 20-30%. And has dropped more and more.
To my understanding. However slowly. The smell is staring to get weaker and weaker. Given that, I would not want to do what JTS keeps telling me to do regarding the panel. I would only do that work if the smell was not decreasing. Where that would be the only option at that point. But so far, thank God, the smell is getting less. Hopefully with some patience and luck it will disappear for good. If not by the end of this season due to insufficient heat. Then next winter when the -30 degrees celcius will come back and the rad can burn through whatever remains.
Again my sincere thanks to everyone who has taken the time to write and give advice. I made this decision based on observable facts. If it were otherwise, I would act on the advice given here. So it is much appreciated gentlemen. All the best.
Hi John sorry I couldn't diagnose the smell that your getting but that is quite difficult from 3000 miles away,
It just beggars belief that this heater has not worked for 10 years and nothing was done about it sooner,
By your description you are living in a small 1 bed apartment , and I am assuming that other similar apartment's are next to you ?
Do you have your own heating system or is it a communal one ?
Do you pay a maintenance charge ?
Who is responsible for the up-keep of the building ?
Do you own or rent this apartment ?
Has any repairs ever been done to your heating system ?
Where is your Boiler located ?
It just beggars belief that this heater has not worked for 10 years and nothing was done about it sooner,
By your description you are living in a small 1 bed apartment , and I am assuming that other similar apartment's are next to you ?
Do you have your own heating system or is it a communal one ?
Do you pay a maintenance charge ?
Who is responsible for the up-keep of the building ?
Do you own or rent this apartment ?
Has any repairs ever been done to your heating system ?
Where is your Boiler located ?
Just cant understand why its took 10 years to sort out the heater ! and the guy sleeps in the lounge, small apartment with communal heating system maybe , if so someone must be libel for maintaining the system
JTS I understand not being able to diagnose the smell from that kind of distance. That makes sense.
The heater was not sorted for a very long and complicated set of reasons.
The boiler is in the basement. I do not have my own heating, but rather the heating system distributed through the entire building via the water rads. I am not aware of any repairs done to the bedroom rad. The living room rad has worked fine since I got this unit.
I just got off the phone with the fire department. They called me back, and told me that they do not have equipment to detect fumes emitted by paints. Their equipment is more geared towards hazardous materials. CO and even anthrax, etc. When I asked him who to contact regarding this, he was not sure.
He also mentioned that it could be a pinhole leak. But even to this I told him, if it was pinhole and heat was off, there would be a smell. No heat, no smell. So it cannot be a leak. He agreed.
So this brings me back to the 2 options we have been discussing. Either I get the building involved and if they do not want to do anything more with that rad. Then it will mean small claims court, etc. Win or lose it will cost money and time and a lot of effort. Or I just let it burn off, as it is slowly going away.
Letting it burn off seems like the cheapest and easiest route.
So do you own the apartment or rent & who is responsible for maintaining the heating system ? Do you pay a maintenance fee ? some one must be responsible for the system ! if you pay towards the up-keep its down to them to sort out the problem why do you need to pay ?? something not quite right ! Have you made inquires about who maintains the apartments ??
JTS as I wrote in my last response. It's a complicated scenario. The short answer is that the building is now responsible.
With the smell dissipating, it may not be worth the hassle to get that thing ripped out. It's not just an expense for the building. It's also a lot of time and effort spent on my part to co-ordinate.
At the rate its going the easiest way to go is to just let it burn it off. Simple. No cost. No headaches or potentially new problems created by tinkering with 70 year old pipes and components. Even if the building is responsible. Does not mean it will be an easy fix. Or an easy time for me. Quite the opposite. Even if they pick up the bill, it will mean a lot of work doing things that could create even bigger and newer problems.
The option that benefits both myself and this building is to let the rad burn off what is left of the smell. At this rate it should not take much longer.
With the smell dissipating, it may not be worth the hassle to get that thing ripped out. It's not just an expense for the building. It's also a lot of time and effort spent on my part to co-ordinate.
At the rate its going the easiest way to go is to just let it burn it off. Simple. No cost. No headaches or potentially new problems created by tinkering with 70 year old pipes and components. Even if the building is responsible. Does not mean it will be an easy fix. Or an easy time for me. Quite the opposite. Even if they pick up the bill, it will mean a lot of work doing things that could create even bigger and newer problems.
The option that benefits both myself and this building is to let the rad burn off what is left of the smell. At this rate it should not take much longer.
So all these questions was a total waste of time because you don't intend doing anything ! just happy to sit back and hope the problem go's away, and carry on paying rent and do nothing, maybe in another 10 years you may have built up courage to complain that's if the building is still standing, Or of course your the owner/landlord who is to tight to spend out on repairs and just looking for a cheep fix
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