- Thread starter Plum Bob 66
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Welcome to the forum. Although you can post in any forum, the USA forum is here in case of local regs or laws
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Guest123
Only pigeons can coo ment on this, but the rest of us will comment.
Independence is political and will not change our relationship with England, but strengthen it.
While on the subject, devolution has proved to be a success, why are the English people not voting for a separate English parliament like Scotland, N.I and Wales have to make decisions for the English people? Instead of moaning about our free prescriptions etc, you could have all this too if you voted for it.
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Dotty
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Guest123
It's even in the present poll with 46% in favour and 10% undecided. There's 2 years to go and now that the real issues can be debated instead of how and when the referendum is to be held, a lot more will come over to the YES campaign.
Nobody predicted a SNP landslide in the last Scottish election especially when the electoral system for the Scottish Parliament was supposed to be designed that no individual party would have an overall majority.
Nobody predicted a SNP landslide in the last Scottish election especially when the electoral system for the Scottish Parliament was supposed to be designed that no individual party would have an overall majority.
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Plum Bob 66
Here what your saying Colin, so heres my coo ment. If Scotland was a freely devolved nation funding its own existence would the niceties of life North of the border still exist such as the funded higher education and free prescriptions still in the form they are now ?
I find this a particularly insteresting subject. Do you see Scotland able to sustain its own economy, infrastructure, public spending ect. Incidentally did the parliament building up in Edinburgh go up on time and in budget.
Re voting for it, I dont think we will ever get the opportunity.
Any way its late, time for me Horlicks & bed
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REDSAW
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Mike Jackson
I'm fully in favour of either an English assembly with similar powers to the Scottish assembly or full devolution. Why should Scottish MPs have a say in matters relating entirely to England in the House of Commons when English MPs have no say about similar things that are devolved to the Scottish parliament.
All that the present system does for me is brew resentment.
All that the present system does for me is brew resentment.
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Barry98
Ill say the same as what i said about Ireland in the 90,s if they want it give it to them cut all ties and let them crack on.
the problem with this country which still exists today is it has its fingers in too many other country's pies.
look at how much funding we send to aids abroad how can 5 a month give clean running water to little billy when I have to pay hundreds in water rates here.
stop spending the money abroad and fix this country first.
Bod for Prime minister
Cameron out bod in Cameron out bod in
the problem with this country which still exists today is it has its fingers in too many other country's pies.
look at how much funding we send to aids abroad how can 5 a month give clean running water to little billy when I have to pay hundreds in water rates here.
stop spending the money abroad and fix this country first.
Bod for Prime minister
Cameron out bod in Cameron out bod in
Last edited by a moderator:
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Resolute
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Guest123
That's the kind of bilge that Scots find infuriating....what does England subsidise us? No way pal. The UK Treasury figures show that Scotland pays more to the UK than it gets back, in fact we have a surplus. No one is "propping" us up or subsidising us. In fact the oil revenues from our shores have been squandered on the failed policies of successive UK governments since the 70's and in fact pays for Englands dole queues which are far bigger than ours and certainly that of Glasgow. Strange how Norway managed to put all the oil money into a oil fund to benefit their citizens, while Westminster hasn't?!!
As for our free tuition fees, care for the elderly, free bus passes for our old folk, free prescriptions and all the other policies that our Scottish government have introduced are paid for and budgeted for, not subsidised by the UK. Note I say the UK Treasury and not the English Treasury as there is no such thing, so how can you say England props us up!!!!!
Shame the Tories can't introduce and budget for the things we get up here for you in England eh?!!
If you want the same as what we have, stop greetin your wee eyes out and moaning a lot of bilge about us being subsidised by "England" (What a bloody joke that one is), and go out and vote for a government that will introduce policies to help YOU!!!
One benefit of independence is that we won't have to listen to and put up with crap like this anymore.....plus no more Tories ever!! There's more Pandas up here than Tory MSP's.
Finally a UGov poll in the Scottish Sun shows 46% for Independence and 36% against, with the remainder undecided and there's still 2 years to go.
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Dotty
46% of those polled maybe Colin. but is that a true representation of the overall populace? Or a poll taken in the more firebrand and sabre rattling part of the community? My son Ben lives in Edinburgh, he tells me all those he's spoken to on this matter either don't give a toss or want to maintain the status quo ante!
He tells me that a fair few people aren't so convinced the grass is greener on the other side!
He tells me that a fair few people aren't so convinced the grass is greener on the other side!
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Guest123
The poll was taken across a wide spectrum of the Scottish population, not just your boy and who he knows. Most people I know are all for it, and that's from the man in the street to owners of large companies.
As the Tory sabre rattling about the how and when the referendum is to be held is now over, the debate can now now start properly and those who you say are "unconvinced" can make a proper judgement. With 2 years still to go, it's now at long last getting to the real issues of the debate.
As the Tory sabre rattling about the how and when the referendum is to be held is now over, the debate can now now start properly and those who you say are "unconvinced" can make a proper judgement. With 2 years still to go, it's now at long last getting to the real issues of the debate.
I am scottish i dont find it infuriating at all nor does my family nor cousins , i think you speak for a small part of the populace about independance, most of my cousins couldnt give a monkeys . to be fair i have no issue nor ever have living in england as my mother says its warmer for a start
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Guest123
Ha, ha, RBS is owned by an English Bank. England didn't prop up anything, the funds came from the UK Treasury, which we in Scotland pay into and get back less than we pay.
Who propped up the English based banks like Northern Rock etc........everyone did! Just like the recent railway balls up by the Tories costing millions, the over budget Millenium Dome, the London Olympics and all the other expensive things you all "conveniently" forget about, we all contributed to the cost.
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Dotty
There are still certain elements I cannot wrap my head round. You want total autonomy yet want to retain sterling as your unit of currency and The Queen as your head of state. You may not be voted into the european union (Though at the moment that's not a bad thing!).
I agree re. the tories, absolutely. the last two PM's were scottish however. I'll let you draw your own conclusion over them!
I agree re. the tories, absolutely. the last two PM's were scottish however. I'll let you draw your own conclusion over them!
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Guest123
No those who REALLY care about our country and giving our kids a decent future and not more of the same want independence and there's a lot more of us than you think. Over 26,000 people contributed to the Scottish Governments Consultation up here, while only 5,000 contributed in the UK one.
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Barry98
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Guest123
We would join all the other nations in the commonwealth who share the Queen as head of state. There are many countries in the world who share a common currency, so we would have Sterling. Membership of the EU would have to be applied for as would England, but not one member state voiced any objection when recently asked, in fact quite the opposite, they would welcome Scotland.
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Guest123
Ok the last 2 PM's were "Scottish", but lived, worked and paid their taxes in England, so they were about as Scottish as Prince Charles. They only did as bad as all their English predecessors any way. Remember, Thatcher?!!!
well at this current moment in time the average scot gets £1000 pound a year more than those in england from govt ,
the general revenue that the govt shell out in scotland and what they recieve is a constant shortfall per year ,
to rely on oil as main source of revenue is risky due to a volatile market ,
however england relies on natural fuel from scotland so kinda balances itself out slightly,
my opinion is that britain dominated the world under the union so its not been a bad thing , scotland does o.k from england and vice versa but idf scotland goes alone i do honestly believe that they wont find the times as good without england as with !!
the general revenue that the govt shell out in scotland and what they recieve is a constant shortfall per year ,
to rely on oil as main source of revenue is risky due to a volatile market ,
however england relies on natural fuel from scotland so kinda balances itself out slightly,
my opinion is that britain dominated the world under the union so its not been a bad thing , scotland does o.k from england and vice versa but idf scotland goes alone i do honestly believe that they wont find the times as good without england as with !!
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Guest123
'Scotland needs independence because that is the natural state for all nations.
Independence – which means taking responsibility – will be good for Scotland. And it will be good for England too.
Scotland will more than pay its own way as an independent nation, and the official figures prove it.
Thought you might want to read the facts, not the fiction about poor subsidised Scotland:
The latest statistics show that Scotland has run a current budget surplus in four of the five years to 2009-10.
Meanwhile, the UK was in current budget deficit in every one of those years, and hasn’t run a current budget surplus since 2001-02.
Scotland accounted for 9.3 per cent of UK public spending in 2009-10, but contributed 9.4 per cent of overall UK tax revenue.
The international comparisons also show that Scotland is more than capable of paying its way.
One of the reasons of course for that healthy position in comparison to other nations is that Scotland has a trillion pound asset base in the form of our remaining North Sea oil and gas reserves.
And, as recent announcements have shown, there is still plenty of life left in Scotland’s offshore oil and gas industry.
Even David Cameron has admitted that Scotland’s oil will be flowing for 'many, many years' to come.
But independence is about much more than just the country’s cash balance.
It will mean talking on all the rights and responsibilities that come with being independent – and above all it will mean Scotland speaking for ourselves in the world.
That is so important when it comes to many of Scotland’s vital interests like fishing and farming.
Scotland and England will continue in a social union after independence, which means we will still have strong bonds of friendship and family ties.
People will still be able to visit relatives over the border and watch their favourite TV shows – just like those in independent Ireland already do.
We will give the people of Scotland the chance to choose independence in the second half of this parliamentary term, just as we promised in this year’s Scottish Parliament election.
And when Scotland does become independent, England will lose a surly lodger and gain a friendly neighbour.'
Read more: Scottish independence: Alex Salmond and Michael Moore on the referendum | Metro.co.uk
Independence – which means taking responsibility – will be good for Scotland. And it will be good for England too.
Scotland will more than pay its own way as an independent nation, and the official figures prove it.
Thought you might want to read the facts, not the fiction about poor subsidised Scotland:
The latest statistics show that Scotland has run a current budget surplus in four of the five years to 2009-10.
Meanwhile, the UK was in current budget deficit in every one of those years, and hasn’t run a current budget surplus since 2001-02.
Scotland accounted for 9.3 per cent of UK public spending in 2009-10, but contributed 9.4 per cent of overall UK tax revenue.
The international comparisons also show that Scotland is more than capable of paying its way.
One of the reasons of course for that healthy position in comparison to other nations is that Scotland has a trillion pound asset base in the form of our remaining North Sea oil and gas reserves.
And, as recent announcements have shown, there is still plenty of life left in Scotland’s offshore oil and gas industry.
Even David Cameron has admitted that Scotland’s oil will be flowing for 'many, many years' to come.
But independence is about much more than just the country’s cash balance.
It will mean talking on all the rights and responsibilities that come with being independent – and above all it will mean Scotland speaking for ourselves in the world.
That is so important when it comes to many of Scotland’s vital interests like fishing and farming.
Scotland and England will continue in a social union after independence, which means we will still have strong bonds of friendship and family ties.
People will still be able to visit relatives over the border and watch their favourite TV shows – just like those in independent Ireland already do.
We will give the people of Scotland the chance to choose independence in the second half of this parliamentary term, just as we promised in this year’s Scottish Parliament election.
And when Scotland does become independent, England will lose a surly lodger and gain a friendly neighbour.'
Read more: Scottish independence: Alex Salmond and Michael Moore on the referendum | Metro.co.uk
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Guest123
Not spin, thats fact and backed up by the UK Treasury.
Seems to me, people in England see all the good things happening here and can't get it so they moan about them having to pay for it. What crap! Go and do something about it, if we can get these things so can you!
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Guest123
A good debate, but I'm off for a beer, will come back for round 2 tomorrow night lads!
Everyone have a good (and prosperous) Monday.
Everyone have a good (and prosperous) Monday.
Theres no fact in spin , fact is scotland had a 1.3 billion shortfall last year . Myself i am not bothered at all and have done o.k living in england . regarding last two primes being scottish you will find nearly all of blairs staff and fellow mp's were either scottish or of scottish background so scotland has been running britain anyway at one point
now we are stuck with a public schoolboy toff 🙁
now we are stuck with a public schoolboy toff 🙁
What's the immigration policy going to be like?, wha about border control? What about the poor souls who live just north or just south of the border. 'Sorry luv, can't make it today, forgot to pick up me passport'
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REDSAW
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Plum Bob 66
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Guest123
Whatever the outcome of the referendum, the debate can now properly start without interference about how it should be run from Westminster.
Oh that was a good one posted earlier, passports at the border! LOL
Oh that was a good one posted earlier, passports at the border! LOL
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Barry98
I agree on the passports , you've made your beds lie in them no coming south when it all goes south
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Guest123
Yeah, yeah, the UK only scraped through the banking crisis and has to date borrowed trillions with no end in sight. In fact, this Tory/Lib coalition has borrowed more than Gordon Brown did. We could easily have been like Greece as other major EU nations like Spain and Italy are heading.
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Barry98
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Barry98
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Dotty
Can't have it all ways ace!
Life isn't a box of chocolates!
"We'll have a little of this, some of that and none of the other!"
Gotcha!
Life isn't a box of chocolates!
"We'll have a little of this, some of that and none of the other!"
Gotcha!
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Guest123
Bod for English PM
System3 for Scottish PM
and then we can have some amazing cross border swally sessions at government expense.
System3 for Scottish PM
and then we can have some amazing cross border swally sessions at government expense.
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Barry98
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Dotty
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Barry98
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Guest123
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REDSAW
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Dotty
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Guest123
There you go.....
You will therefore be known as John MacCrop, honorary Scotsman and haggis muncher.
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Guest123
Wee Eck is going to ship them all down to the Lake District where they belong. A few stray ICBM's just might find their way heading to Downing Street and Lord Snooty Cameron......
I haven't yet heard anything concrete about what will happen to the massive debt the UK is carrying. Presumably an independent Scotland would take on its share according to its percentage of the UK population, anyone know the answer.
Secondly, it is well known that per head of population Scotland receives a good bit more in terms of spending than the English. Am I right in thinking that with independence all funding would be curtailed ?
Finally, whenever did North Sea oil become Scottish oil ?
All fields are well offshore, outside the UK 12 mile limit recognized in fishing parlance as international waters. Oil is merely piped ashore to the nearest convenient part of the UK which happens to be in Scotland, as well as the infrastructure being based conveniently close in Aberdeen which has done very very well out of the oil industry.
Was it wholly owned Scottish companies that put up all the initial funding to facilitate oil production or were they UK companies ?
Secondly, it is well known that per head of population Scotland receives a good bit more in terms of spending than the English. Am I right in thinking that with independence all funding would be curtailed ?
Finally, whenever did North Sea oil become Scottish oil ?
All fields are well offshore, outside the UK 12 mile limit recognized in fishing parlance as international waters. Oil is merely piped ashore to the nearest convenient part of the UK which happens to be in Scotland, as well as the infrastructure being based conveniently close in Aberdeen which has done very very well out of the oil industry.
Was it wholly owned Scottish companies that put up all the initial funding to facilitate oil production or were they UK companies ?
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tamz
The debt would be shared per capita.
Contrary to popular belief south of the border, Scotland contributes more than it gets back.
The 12 nm limit is territorial waters. The oil fields lie in what is called an Exclusive Economic Zone which extends to 200nm.
Scotlands geographical share of oil production is over 90% and around 58% for gas.
The oil fields were privately funded with the uk collecting from licensing and taxes. It is irrelevant who owns the platforms or pipelines.
Contrary to popular belief south of the border, Scotland contributes more than it gets back.
The 12 nm limit is territorial waters. The oil fields lie in what is called an Exclusive Economic Zone which extends to 200nm.
Scotlands geographical share of oil production is over 90% and around 58% for gas.
The oil fields were privately funded with the uk collecting from licensing and taxes. It is irrelevant who owns the platforms or pipelines.
Thanks for the reply Tamz. Where does Scotland generate the bulk of it's revenue then ?
I know that the whiskey industry would generate quite a lot of tax income but is it that & oil which are the biggest contributors ?
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tamz
Have a read of this (it's only a few pages)
http://www.scottish-enterprise.com/...ents/STUV/Scottish key facts January 2012.doc
http://www.scottish-enterprise.com/...ents/STUV/Scottish key facts January 2012.doc
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Guest123
Perhaps Tamz, we should offer a link to the Crone report that the British Government covered up and made Top Secret. Had the Scottish people been able to read it, we'd have had independence a decade ago.
While on the subject of maritime borders, Tony Blair illegally moved a section of Scottish waters into England!
While on the subject of maritime borders, Tony Blair illegally moved a section of Scottish waters into England!
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REDSAW
i see its started then?
bbc 2 right now 'youv'e been trumped'
your government wannabe's are selling & pillaging scotland to mr trumps empire!!!!!!
thee be nowt left in 50/60 years.
bbc 2 right now 'youv'e been trumped'
your government wannabe's are selling & pillaging scotland to mr trumps empire!!!!!!
thee be nowt left in 50/60 years.
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Guest123
Under Westminster rule, there will be nowt left in 10 years.
Cameron and his Tory predecessors have been pillaging Scottish industry for decades.
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REDSAW
is this your leader?.
quoted from the mail online....
The broadcast comes as first minister Alex Salmond, once an influential supporter of Trump’s project, was refused support from Trump
Read more: Donald Trump: Suffering of residents near Aberdeenshire golf resort in documentary | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
selling you down the burn mate.lol
quoted from the mail online....
The broadcast comes as first minister Alex Salmond, once an influential supporter of Trump’s project, was refused support from Trump
Read more: Donald Trump: Suffering of residents near Aberdeenshire golf resort in documentary | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
selling you down the burn mate.lol
That's an interesting one, what happens to the Regiment of Scotland? Members of the Armed forces stationed in Scotland? Scottish members of the armed forces? Lots of questions that no-one can answer, only speculate. As I said previously, it wont happen overnight, if at all.
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Guest123
The Royal Regiment of Scotland would remain in an independent Scotland. Scottish members of the UK armed forces would be given a choice as to what Army they wanted to join as many are not stationed in Scotland. There are many English members in the Scottish Regiment too and stationed here. This has been well documented and not speculated.
No one is going to rip up 300 years of being neighbours. This is political independence, not a closing of any borders. It's about the Scottish Parliament making ALL the decisions that affect Scotland, right here in Scotland and raising and spending our own funds to benefit our own people.
England would still remain our closest neighbour and trading partner, we'd all still watch Corrie and all the other cack on the TV and not a lot else would change, except we'd be in charge of our own destiny, not Lord Snooty Cameron and his Lib Dem bed partners.
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Guest123
im in favour of devolution i want to devolve london and thesouth east draw a line fom the bottom of the wash to the far side of the new forest
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Dotty
Not sure about that. That'd make me an expat.
But then I guess I am one anyway!
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